UNCUT - The Masterpiece Society (TNG S5E13) | Star Trek Journey 220
Comments (93)
Think I’ve always been too hard on this one. It’s actually not bad at all, as a kid hated it. Now I appreciate it a lot more.
This is a good episode, but it's pretty forgettable for me. I think the reason why is I never fully bought the concept of this planet. I don't get why Troi would want to vacation here and consider it a paradise. What's the draw of it to her specifically? Why would anything here appeal to specifically her? And we never get to visually see this interconnected effect that they talk about. I mean, I can understand the prime directive effects and the societal influence of exposure to outsiders. But I don't get how the whole "genetic connection to a tree" thing is supposed to work. The episode never really sold that to me. Same thing with Troi's relationship. It's great once it gets going, but I feel like there was no setup for it to earn what it was. The relationship just instantly happens, and we're supposed to accept that "of course it would". I don't understand why this place and the leader would be so instantly attractive to Troi. What were the seeds of this relationship?I feel like for me, this episode really needed a scene or two at the beginning to really sell these ideas, and show them believably in action. Instead, I feel like we got thrown into the middle of the plot and are expected to just blindly accept certain things and run with it. I get that this is probably due to time constraints, but I never believed or understood why these people couldn't just relocate to another planet beyond ideological concerns. The explanation almost feels like a scam that everyone just bought into and never questioned. Same with Troi's relationship.
Yeah, this episode is better than I remember it, and it makes me regret not even bothering to give it a tier rating like a coward (I'd probably give it a B). It's got good Picard moments. It's a surprisingly good Laforge episode. I just think that the idea of "cultural contamination" has been explored far more dramatically in other Star Trek ventures, and watching you guys watch this I'm not too big of a fan of the double-standard being played on Troi for having intimate relationships when (yes, true) Riker wouldn't have even thought twice of it. But that scene between her and Picard in the turbolift was pretty good. Again, I very much appreciate re-visiting Trek (yet again) through y'all.
"The Giver." What a pull~
The Masterpiece Society - aka What if... Khan est. Botany Bay on Ceti Alpha V, only to become a prosperous "Masterpiece Society" that is going to be wiped out by a space wave... only to be saved by Starfleet's 1% 😉🖖
also, not sure if the hosts hit on this later (i'm only 20 min in), but when Geordi figures out the pulse approach based on the tech in his visor, it's an example of having to solve an unusual problem leading to innovation in another field. this happens all the time in science - something you learn in one area fixes a different problem and then everybody improves. shows that trying to create a problem-free society is a flawed ideal.
Addressing comment before the reaction about S5 being the best, nah. It's good but too uneven to be the best. S4 is the most consistently good. There are some bangers from here on out but it's up and down a lot.
If you like good movies where nothing happens, watch "The Man from Earth."
I think I gave this a C in the poll, but I'll bump that up to a B-. It is fairly dry material, but there are some decent concepts that the episode explores, even if it has some flaws. I do like that even though the prime directive doesn't technically apply, in just about every way that matters it illustrates the reason the PD exists. At the same time, while damage was clearly done to the society the alternative would have been their complete destruction, so a bit of a catch 22. You could of course make all sorts of arguments that Picard should have ordered his people to get in, do their job and get out without engaging in small talk to minimize any potential damage, but the whole turbolift conversation also points out that nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. John Snyder(Aaron) had previously played centurion Bochra in The Enemy. Reusing guest actors is nothing new, but rewatching this it occurred to me there's another unlikely parallel between the 2 episodes. In both this and The Enemy, someone implies that it was a mistake to allow Geordi to be born being blind, only for his VISOR to end up being the key to saving the day. Something I never thought of before.
I generally like this episode, but the guy playing Aaron is just a total void of charisma in my opinion.
Great review. It’s interesting how the both of you differ in Watching your reviews it’s interesting to see what you like and don’t like but sometimes the differences nail what’s best about the episode. Josh, if you want to know why Darmok is well liked, Alex really nailed it in his review, and Alex, if you want to know why people like this episode, Josh really nailed it in his review. I like both episodes. A very enjoyable review.
This always feels like a season 3 episode to me. Maybe because it is essentially a remake of the ensigns of command. Always surprised when I remember it's season 5
Wow. I'm actually kinda surprised by the S tier. As someone who actually liked Captain's Holiday, this episode dragged on for me a bit too long. But hey that's the beauty of having different points of view and getting to talk about them.
Hannah Bates (Dey Young) looks exactly like Alexander's teacher (Jennifer Wagner) from New Ground.
Not sure how this gets an S yet Darmok gets trashed
Because people are not all the same and life is better for it
What you call "techno-babble" I call Science Fiction.
👍🏻
This episode always feel more like a first or second season episode
This episode didn’t do much for me in 1992 and hasn’t improved much on this re-watch. Well-written yes, good acting yes, but it’s boring. C+
These humans remind me a lot of the Kryptonians we saw in “Man of Steel” with their pre-determined genetic roles.
So about the “wall of writers”. Often times what this means is that a story idea was submitted but the writing staff wrote the script. Sometimes scripts are rewritten. Sometimes the episodes come from multiple story submissions blended into one. “Yesterday’s Enterprise” was a combination of 2 script submissions, followed by several writers doing their own scripts. So everyone got credit. So the wall of credits doesn’t necessarily mean that there were problems writing the episode. Just sometimes ideas come from multiple sources, and per the guidelines of the Writers Guild of America, everyone gets credit.
Also (and I learned this from the Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens book about the making of DS9) if writers are joined by an ampersand (&) that means they co-wrote it in a collaborative manner, whereas if their names are joined by an "and" that means the second person listed rewrote it after the first person. So, for "The Masterpiece Society," the credits tell us that James Kahn came up with and submitted the original idea, which was assigned to and reworked by Adam Belanoff, who also wrote the first draft of the screenplay, which was then in turn rewritten by Michael Piller (probably doing a "polish" on the script.)
Don't understand the love for Season 5, even the 2nd half. Bring on Season 6!
I think its because there is a select few REALLY good episodes in this season and I think those few episodes are what remain in peoples minds when they think back about it. They've forgotten or blocked out the rest lol. My personal favorite episode of the entirety of TNG is in this season (still a ways off) and there is a couple other episodes I really enjoy However coming into this season, re-watching it with these two, its been surprisingly middling from what my nostalgia would have had me believe.
Probably saw this once as a kid, then skipped it on every rewatch since. And I'm so happy I did. That decisions gave me one more 'B' episode of TNG to watch this evening as an adult.
Alex, The statement being made about the Cold War was not that "it was bad". It was meant to tie a bow on the end of the TOS era. During TOS, written in the late 1960s during the height of the Cold War, Trek was intentionally written with its own Cold War with the Klingons. This was an obvious parallel in the writing, meant for the audience of the time. After the fall of the Soviets, the writers then ended the fictional Cold War within Trek. It was an end of an era within the fictional Trek universe in parallel with the same in the real world. It was not beating you in the nose with "Cold war bad". It was summing up decades of fictional canon *and* actual history. Being so quick to completely and derisively dismiss the whole thing as "cold war bad".... I mean. :( We're not saying it's what makes ST:VI good or bad. It's simply a central theme of Star Trek and an interesting point about the narrative. Its a part of Trek's place in the popular culture of the last half of the 20th century. It really is so much more than "cold war bad".
Maybe we oughta get them to watch "The Day After"... Although, given that's also a Nicholas Meyer film, they probably still won't go in for it.
Another forgettable episode nobody cares about scores an S! The trend continues! If this logic holds, that upcoming episode everyone is waiting for is sure to get a D. That said, the discussion is solid, the reasoning is solid. Nice discussion.
Luuuuv this discussion! ❤️ 💙 💜 This is what Star Trek is all about! 😎 😍🤩
A number of multiple appearance guest stars. I think they were all better in their other roles. This is a relatively frequent rewatch for me for its soporific quality. It’s on my playlist for when I need to sleep but want my trek fix. (Along with The Royale, The Survivors, Tin Man, multiple future eps. I find them pleasantly sleepy.)
lol i officially have no idea what episodes you guys will like or dislike. i've given up trying to figure it out. i'm just going with it. alex - love the 1917 sure. fucking great movie.
I think if an episode has a well-executed, acted and written moral dilemma plotline, the odds are high they will at least consider it to be a banger. However, as they alluded to, a lot of the grade depends on how the episode finishes. If it starts great but plummets after, the beginning can't save it for them.
this colony is different from khans people. khans dna was designed. the people in the colony are "only" selected.
It occurs to me that, as people of science, the ending should have been them coming to the conclusion that their experiment to build a perfect society has failed and they should all leave (or at least re-establish communication with the outside world).
They can't interfere even if life and death of the civilization, but I think they already said, prime directive doesn't apply to humans.
Eh...I think in this situation, prime directive applies. I'm with Picard on this one. They are humans...but they are also less developed, and completely isolated from the rest of humanity. I mean what if a failed human colony collapsed back to the iron age and spent a few centuries thinking they were alone in the universe while swinging swords at each other? I mean...being human doesn't disqualify them from Prime Directive protections.
Seeing these ratings that skew so far from how most people feel is giving me lots of anxiety for my favorite episode.
This is me ever since undiscovered country 😅
C. Sorry, I can’t see more than that, or maybe a C+. The plot is uninteresting and inconsequential, with bland development. Stock characters and generic actors merely deliver lines—perhaps with some flourish, but without any gravitas.
Until you guys mentioned Kolbe’s penchant for close ups a few seasons ago I had never noticed it. Now I can tell who directed within a few minutes before seeing the credits.
After "Up The Long Ladder" was slightly pro-choice, this episode is slightly pro-life. Cool to see dissenting viewpoints make it into the writer's room.
Maybe just a 180 on what Josh and I find gripping in plots that don’t have much action. I guess I never really felt like I cared about what happened to the people on the planet, save the ones who wanted to leave.
This one is okay. B- or C. The conundrum is sort of intriguing. the part that is most intriguing to me is bring in the fly in the ointment and how fast that can make things change and fall apart. I do not think that was unrealistic. But I think brining in the chaos of the Enterprise and her crew was so jarring to such a so called perfect society. It really was not a prefect one and that is why the chaos hurt it so bad.
LOL. I never know what you guys are going to like. You’ve disliked some of my favorite eps and liked things I think are crap. That’s what makes things so entertaining. Why would I want to watch people who agree with me 100% of the time?
I like this episode a lot the acting was really good that scene in the elevator with troy and Picard was gold! A++
I have to disagree. I personally felt that the acting was well below standard for TNG
Damn- this episode is so much better than I remember.
I think that C rating comes from people not remembering the good aspects of the episode. It's in this whole middle slump period of s5 and I think it gets lumped in there with the rest. I think its a B or B+
Yep a strong "B"
This is a personal favorite of mine, an A for sure even though I know fan reaction is pretty split on it. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend to write a few notes and I'm looking forward to your reaction, even though the thumbnail scares me a bit!
For me this is an A. Another great Deanna episode. Also great scenes with Geordie and Picard. I liked the guest stars. Some interesting ideas brought up.
But this is also a Geordi episode.
This one is a thinker, in the best way. Highly underrated episode, glad you both liked it.
It’s similar to half a life, in it brings up some serious relevant moral issues , but didn’t preach. Good sci fi makes you think as opposed to telling you how to think.
This is an S episode that none the less manages to not be very memorable. By the way, your speculation about how these people were actually really old and if they left they would age up and die was actually a Space:1999 episode.
Martin was right, though. There are subtle writing problems with this that made me vote "B" in the Patron Takes. No higher. ● The alleged instant, measurable disruption to the society from visitors being there for 5 minutes is completely preposterous. ● On an inhospitable planet like that, the colony definitely took time to get established. The loss of 23 members hundreds of years after establishment can't be THAT devastating, even if it will take several generations to be compensated for. I know the plot armor required the stakes for the colony to sound high, but scientifically I just can't buy it. The colony should recover. ● Aaron talks about all the genetically compatible women for him but it's odd he doesn't have one already, and it's odder to suggest that he would have any say in the matter within such a tightly-engineered society anyways. ● As right as Martin was about the foreseen disruption to their society, it is still baffling he would put isolationism above survival. If he's a type of judge, he's a very poor one. It is right he is not in charge. ● Lack of life support wouldn't instantly kill people on a ship. It's not like the oxygen and heat just disappears in a flash. It's a very tropey-dopey crisis.
all very valid criticisms
They didn’t show the entire planet because there’s nothing else to see. The colony is in that dome (as was explained in the episode).
Yeah I'm kinda surprised they missed that. Lol. It's a total recall dome situation. The planet clearly isn't class M.
1:16:20 IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
1:14:22 NDT is not a deep thinker. There are no infinite possibilities.
I think that’s Art Vandelay.
Hmmm... it IS better than I remembered, ok fine, B
The conundrum is the excellent thing about this episode. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.
100%. We definitely had the same thought on this.
31:10 The whole treating "people die the moment life support terminates" as realistic drama drives me crazy. They would have hours or days of oxygen and heat.
Exactly. Better to play up the radiation coming off the core fragment. Though that said, life support failure is less about things getting cold than things getting hot. Waste heat is a big problem on a starship.
25:08 They definitely porked. It's morning!
The sex scoreboard Troi doin’ some skin slappin’ Riker 12 Troi 4 new +1 Dr. Bev 3 Data 2 Picard 1 Worf 1 Geordi 1 Broccoli 2 i Chief/Keiko 1 Extra: Troi has a type. Seems to be attracted to some slimy personality at least somewhat. I wonder what Deanna is like romping. Does she like slow, soft loving love-making. I think not. If dark haired Gov Newson (or Justin Trudeau) fell in love, she must be an animal in bed. I am guessing a little hair pulling is why she brushes her hair so much. Kind of a “alone” time. One last thing. I think the reason so many colonist wanted to leave is Riker. I am guessing Riker nailed at least 12 (2 a day).
Troi goes for the "polished" and "pretty" types.
Back in the day when there always was Trek running on one or the other channel (of german Televison) some episodes were repeated more often then others. I think this one I really saw only once. So it was somehow new to me. I agree a lot with you guys. It is kind of boring but not in a uninteresting way. I really like that there was no forced singular solution/moral at the end.
I thought the guys might bring up a "kobayashi maru" situation, even.
13:35 This is a colony. Everything you saw on the "matte painting" is all of the population center on the planet.
Finally updated to Bridge Crew 🔥
4:22 Inconvenient Science vs. Reality: The density and gravity of that core fragment would not only knock that planet out of orbit, it would have crushed the Enterprise in its opening shot so close to the thing.
There are some good ones coming, don't worry Alex and Josh!
Really enjoyed the discussion on this one! It's one of the 'quieter' episodes but I've never found it dull because of the way it makes you think about the issues involved. Glad you enjoyed it as much as I did.
Yes. It's not dull. The no-win conundrum is very compelling.
I just upgraded to Bridge Crew!!
Gotta agree that this hit far better today than it did whenever I last watched it. Great concepts, no good solutions. The guy you expect to be the problem is just honestly concerned and ultimately for good reason and the only people who do anything "bad" are a single faked scan that is caught immediately and Troi doing what other crew members have done repeatedly. Just a "sometimes everything just sucks even when you save everybody" kind of tale with questions worth thinking about.
Indeed.
MartinFace™️ reminds me of when Alex gets heated whenever someone is rude to Data.
Martin HAS to be lurking in the background of the YouTube thumbnail plz
I knew you would agree with me Josh, this was one of my favorite of the show, I love thought provoking episodes
In Violations, I commented about how Star Trek is the best when it presents real world scenarios (with the sci-fi dressing) and makes you think without preaching. Violations was OK --- but Masterpiece Society has that added "And Make You Think" This episode is an allegory for so many things, it offers many questions, but no definitive answers on the right course -- instead relying on the audience to determine which is any course would be the correct one. A solid "A" episode
I'm sorry but they're trolling with these ratings now 😂
I do enjoy this episode. It’s one that i watch often.
Wait, 2 episodes in the same day? I guess I need to be closer attention to the schedule. Thanks for the late Christmas present, boys 😄
Oops, just watched the beginning of last episode 👍
An S, for The Masterpiece Society?? Now that was definitely left field... but a great example that Star Trek attracts all sort of different opinions and perspectives, and that's its great strength. Cheers..!
This is one of those episodes that should live in season 2 but got lost and ended up in season 5.
Also my lost episode theory works in reverse. There are some season 2 and 3 episodes that have such cool scifi concepts and high production values that they feel like season 6 or 7 bangers.