UNCUT - The Drumhead (TNG S4E21) | Star Trek Journey 202

Love Picard in this episode! Also Simon Tarses, who i found a really interesting character, so decided to continue his story in a fanfiction! There were chilling scenes in this episode, awesome!!

reminds me of the man about to take office. gross.

I love how in the preview they didn't have any action shots to do the cheesy slow motion on, so they did it to the shot of him doing his famous facepalm. Chef's kiss.

I think this which hunt theme was probably inspired by the McCarty hearings during the Cold War, but later the 9/11 hearings kinda got like this. Picard's final warning is very true.

Great ep but the best Picard ep is yet to come. :)

I have only one critique to this episode, and it's trivial. I did not like the camera angle in the ending sean it was looking down at the observation windows. You could see nothing but stars. You should have mostly seen the top of the saucer section. Oh well, the episode was great so it doesn't really matter.

Might have been mentioned and I’m too lazy to check but I find the behind the scenes stuff fascinating for this one. Studio wanted a cost saving clip show, instead we get this - well written, thought provoking idea

I'd also hope Tarses didn't actually get booted from starfleet, especially given it could be argued that he didn't technically lie, as Romulans are essentially the same species as Vulcans.

I don't get the 'it wasn't realistic' criticism. People act far worse than this all the time. The only difference is there usually isn't a Picard like figure to set them straight, or when there is they are often ignored in favour of the loudest voice ranting about the latest source of outrage. This is one of my favourite episodes. It serves as a reminder to not only question the facts, intentions, and convictions of others, but to also question all those about yourself. It shows how easy it is to go from being the good guy to being the bad guy. It's honestly scary. I also love that this is another example of a story that can be consumed on it's own while also drawing heavily on the show's overall continuity. It references Conspiracy, Sins of the Father, Best of Both Worlds, Data's Day, as well as all the instances of Picard breaking the prime directive.

An Episode a timely today as it was in 1990 when phrases like enemy within and enemy of the people are being thrown about we can see how freedom can hang in the balance, it also harkens back to the Mccarthy Hearings in the 50's one of the top ten episodes of the series.

This episode demonstrates well the dangers of letting fear and suspicion spiral out of control. Through this obsessive investigation, we see how easily a quest for security can turn into a witch hunt. And we see the many perils of self-righteous zealotry. A poignant reminder that leaders have a responsibility to safeguard their people from abuses of power.

Speaking of Cedar Point, did you guys know they're preparing to move Neutral Zone Studios (the Star Trek Continues sets) to the Sandusky Mall? There's an Indiegogo fundraiser called Mission Sandusky going on right now to finance the move.

"Required reading at the Academy" ... take a drink.

Had no idea you guys were in Ohio. Go Bucks! If you’re a football fan and Ohio State Fan. Ha.

Whoever keeps voting "E" reminds me of this guy- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUj1Ug-4MTA

Getting Jean Simmons in the show was a major coup, she was Hollywood and UK acting royalty, it would be like getting Dame Judy Dench to have a part in Trek now. Spencer Garrett said that IRL she was hilarious, foul-mouthed and a chainsmoker - nothing at all like Satie.

Oh, it's the "Let's fucking GO!!!" episode. 🥁 Drumroll, please...

Easy S on this one for me. I get a few people have their criticisms or think it's overrated, but I agree with Josh that it doesn't need to be clever to get it's point across. The lessons this episode has to teach are straightforward, and relevant to all eras. A timeless masterpiece and a top 5 episode of TNG IMO. One criticism I see a lot is that Satie goes from calm and composed to full Greta Thunberg at the drop of a hat. I don't actually have an issue with this. First I think the cracks were starting to show even earlier, and she was just able to maintain composure until she felt cornered. But also the argument is that she's this respected and very accomplished investigator who could never possibly do what she did in the episode and therefore her obsession and outburst are bad writing. I think there are 2 answers to this. First is "don't meet your heroes", as sometimes these people we put up on pedestals were pieces of shit all along. Maybe she was always an ends justify the means type and cared more about convictions than integrity, and until then she had enough legitimate targets to hide that. And second, maybe she once was just as principled as Picard, and perhaps over time seeing how the Conspiracy aliens or Romulans infiltrated Starfleet, her perspective became warped and she started seeing enemies everywhere. As for Picard's 9 prime directive violations, reddit came up with a list of candidates. Justice, Pen Pals, and Who Watches the Watchers are the clear PD violation episodes. Angel One, Symbiosis, The Hunted, The High Ground, Devils's Due and First Contact are listed as "debatable". Angel One did come pretty close to interference, or rather allowing interference. Symbiosis and Hunted funny enough saw the PD being used as a shield to NOT interfere, but in a way that interfered in order to effect a desired result. The High Ground was unintentional, but they did get caught up in an internal conflict. I would challenge Devil's Due as Ardra was a con artist and they abided by the legal code of the planet, and First Contact was about first contact, but Riker's discovery before the official meeting complicated that. Code of Honor, Reunion, and Transfigurations are listed as "stretching it". Code of Honor saw them playing by the local rules, so I'd dismiss that one, but perhaps the fakeout death and power shift would be a violation. The Klingons asked Picard to be the arbiter of succession, so I'm not sure that counts. Transfigurations did see the Enterprise unwittingly help set in motion a huge societal shift, so that's valid. I would also submit Up The Long Ladder and Legacy as possible PD violations. They both involved human colonies, but ones not part of the federation and as such they might be covered by the PD. I would agree that this is one of the best Picard episodes, and it's a great showcase of his integrity and his principles. While the "first link" speech is not his own, it's clearly something that very much defined his character throughout his life, and it's forever burned into my memory. Character defining episode for Picard, and a fair bit of growth for Worf as well.

I believe this is the zenith - the pinnacle - the Absolute Best of the "Star Trek Goes To Court" across all the television incarnations.

This is a superbly written and acted episode, but I'm not into courtroom drama stuff like this.

"You come at the King, you best not miss"

I almost think Picard should welcome new recruits to the ship by saying "If you want to be part of breaking all the rules you just learned, you've joined the right ship."

Happy Friday 😊. Target Audience! https://youtu.be/bl5TUw7sUBs?si=4yT85aN2gH-iBopI

At almost 35 mins or so Alex says to Satie, "your father would be ashamed of you" 🔥🔥🔥

This was Ron Jones final score for the series.

This is Michael Dorn's personal favorite all time TNG episode.

There was a nearly identical quote in Buffy 'Lie To Me" from Giles at the end, though that came 6 years later.

Lore might just post very early after the video comes out and has good takes. As time goes on from the initial release, people don't come back to visit the thread and like comments that have come "late". So he has good takes, posts early, gets a reputation from having been most liked before, and who knows maybe has some friends who all like each others comments.

nah, most races will still mostly breed with other members of their own race, the mixed race people are a small minority and having a mixed race child (humanoid races) usually requires some technological intervention.

Romulans have a longer life span then humans though not as old as vulacans. Just because the Romulan Empire and The Federation hadnt had formal contact for a while doesn't mean individual romulans didnt get around the galaxy.

Worf's speech isnt technobabble. I think you guys misunderstand what "technobabble" is. What worf said was perfectly understandable and coherent. "Technobabble" is a bunch of sciencey sounding nonsense that fills in for plot explanations. Voyager specifically was known for horribly abusing technobabble and coming up with "scientific" sounding solutions that were just nonsense.

The scene where she "drops her mask" is evocative of the "have you no shame?" speech that was the nail in the coffin for Joe McCaryth and the communist hunts.

keep in mind, Sati described the proceeding as a "hearing" not a trial, exactly so she could get away with stuff like that, but Picard said nope, youre lawyering up.

My least favorite thing about this episode is how easily Picard triggered Satie to hang herself. It should have been a lot harder.

my strong impression was the episode was saying there was no conspiracy, Jedan acted alone and around the same time there was an accidental explosion whose cause was subtle and took time to determine. Tarsus was just someone who had lied about his heritage on his application and happened to be one of several medical technicians who administered Jedan's injections. It strikes me how well this is done, as its both possible to see why someone might look at that and think there has to be something fishy going on, but on the other hand, if you anyone looks hard enough, they will observe some pattern that they presume to be meaningful if they start with the conclusion and work backwards to fill in the evidence. This is in fact what "conspiracy theorists" do by definition (and yes there are sometimes real conspiracies, but conspiracy theorists were generally people who see conspiracies as the most likely explanation for everything.

the lying tactic occurss all the time in police investigations, but in a trial, the process of discovery happens first, meaning all the evidence that will be introduced at trial is known to both parties and their lawyers. The "surpise evidence" you might see in court-room drama hasnt been a thing since a supreme court ruling in the earlier half of the 20th century. So if a lawyer asked this question, the other lawyer would object to referring to evidence not in the record and the judge would sustain the objection and either give the other attorney a severe warning or censure them.

"I'm genuinely evil" There are a few, actual psychopaths who take enjoyment from the suffering of others, but thats rare

I used to think how silly to imagine real people behaving this unreasonably. But now in 2024 it seems perfectly on target. Just go to any school board meeting!

This is one of the most important episodes in the entire series. I see Admiral Satie as basically an Inquisitor, trying to keep the Federation clean and weed out heretics who may be disobeying the "faith", whether that be from violating the Prime Directive or otherwise. Anyone who believes in something so strongly that they might allow the ends to justify the means can fall into the same trap that Satie and Worf did.

While I predicted that you would love this episode, upon watching it with you, the first half was REALLY NOT all that. But I did love how Picard just sat there during Satie's meltdown, as if to say "see how I'm not rising to this?"

Meanwhile who has ever worked in a large organization and seen anyone like Picard or Juror number 12 who tries to influence the larger group against whatever decision has already been made just gets written up as a problem employee and slowly shown the door? Drumhead and 12 Angry Men are entertaining but don't mistake them for what really happens.

they were referring to the gilworm conspiracy from "conspiracy"

My favorite example of foregoing a principle to achieve your own desire on the national scale is assassination of foreign leaders.

"lesser son of greater sires" is a quote from lord of the rings

I absolutely love Satie's silent rage/composure loss/overwhelming emotion at the end of the trial. It's not massively over done, she has just the right amount of sheer emotional turmoil visible and it's perfect. The lingering shot from high as everyone leaves the room - and her - isolated is great.

Farewell Maestro Ron Jones. It was following this episode that he was stupidly, foolishly, and unjusticely fired. Yeah, fuck Berman and his wallpaper music.

love the idea of romulans pretending to be vulcans to get laid in the federation

love how Picard flips the trial at the end she was on trial and found guilty

59:45. The scene in Picard’s quarters was not meant to suggest that Picard was going to use this knowledge against Satie. They were genuinely getting to know each other, and it served to lull the audience into thinking she’s trustworthy.

ASCAB

One more proof that Star Trek always was relevant as a commentary on society and always will be.

Not enough credit is given to Jean Simmons, an award-winning actress who does a great job playing the unchecked prosecutor. Not to mention, you'd never be able to tell that, underneath that makeup, she's really the lead guitarist for KISS. ;

This episode tramples on the service and sacrifice of all who are working hard to keep the Federation safe from Romulan subversion. How can anyone rate this with anything else but an F? Have you people been brainwashed already? You all see no problems with their agents freely moving around on our ships, with little surveillance, bombing our warp cores? If you love the Romulans so much, go pack your bags and move to the other side of the Neutral Zone already!

Emotionally Measure of a Man means more to me but in actuality and execution drum head is the better courtroom episode

Jean Simmons was a HUGE Trek fan. She had a group of fans who gathered every week with her to watch the week’s episode.

By the end of the second season of Deep Space Nine you will start to understand every word of the technobabble and what it's supposed to mean you will never tell your non Star Trek fan friends

Kinda reminds me of that BSG episode. But ofcourse this came first.

I got paid a day early and I just signed up for the $10 tier at the midnight hour. Are we close to 200?!?

Glad to see my comment be a topic of conversation. Even though I wasn't crazy about the episode, I'm always excited to see you guys love something. And, boy, was it sorely needed after the last episode.

RIP Jeri Taylor. Beyond just the episodes she has writing credits on, she was a major force behind a lot of the success of the latter half of TNG's run.

"..........before our new tiers begin tonight at midnight eastern!" Cue Borg Engaged by Ron Jones, from Best of Both Worlds Soundtrack!

Jeri Taylor's writing in this episode was great. It's the only episode in which she is the sole writer that I think is great, however. I know she recently passed and I'm sure she was a very nice lady, but I can't call myself a fan of her writing except here.

Patrick Stewart proves he's the GOAT in episodes like this. Respect.

Regarding the idea of shades of grey with the topic of witch hunts, this goes beyond the scope of a comment section on a Star Trek reaction video, and I'm certainly not a historian, but from what I believe I've learned in the past, it's my understanding that McCarthyism did uncover at least some truth to there being communists infiltrating American institutions and/or the government. If that is true, then I have to admit there is some grey to the concept, if or when there really are at least some 'witches' to be found. That having been said, I still despise witch hunts in principle, and it's still unacceptable to destroy innocent lives in the name of finding the real bad guys.

Wasn't expecting Maverick to get a mention here but as a massive coaster nerd and TA fan, it was great to hear that in the video!

You know... The S are really flying this season (and for good reason) - but it certainly sheds light on why poorly rated episodes are poorly rated - because people are looking back on them with episodes like these as THE BAR. I mean how can you not rank a "meh" episode C or lower when there are 10-15 S TIER episodes in a single season?

I think I would enjoy this episode more if Picard had just said right to Admiral Satie's face something along the lines of: You are intentionally ignoring the rights and freedoms guaranteed to people in this Federation. What you're doing here is immoral, antiethical...etc etc.

After this discussion, I'm absolutely dying to see the season tier ranking.

Timely episode. Scary.

1:15:15 You haven't yet seen "the whole show" so you're excused from deciding this right this moment.

Something in this discussion made me think if that Star Trek themed "Futurama" episode. I don't know if you guys have seen that episode or even that show. But I think you'd appreciate it, and by now I think all the references in it are about things you've seen.

1:06:45 A reminder that is not scientifically realistic for different species to be able to produce offspring, and overwhelmingly unlikely that any such offspring would be anything but sterile.

This remains one of my favorite episodes and favorite among Picard's speeches. RIP Jeri Taylor (1938-2024), who passed away one week ago today. An Indiana University Bloomington alumna, she donated her Star Trek scripts and related collectibles to the campus's Lily Library.

Using DNA or RNA to encode binary data is already in development as it is very space efficient!

1:03:30 That's an interesting point, Josh! 🤔

I used to believe that Ron Howard could not make a bad film. He finally did. Spoiler alert: Frakes has some clunkers, too.

I didn't like from the start how Satie and Sabin are complimenting Worf in a very patronizing way. As if to say, "You're very lucky to have our blessing."

Admiral Satie is a disgusting, flawed person.

I think the point to have Geordi and Data confirm it was an accident was to have that moment where Satie says, "Well that doesn't mean there's not a conspiracy, anyway." The idea being to give the audience a moment where we realize something is wrong here. I can see the benefit of keeping things less definitive than that, but I think they wanted to make sure we were on Picard's side, becoming suspicious of these people.

So, to kind of book end my comment on the last episode, this might be a good time to tell you that Jeri Taylor co-created Voyager and was the show runner for the first four seasons. :)

"Not that Gene Simmons." Jean Simmons said that in the '70s she would sometimes receive fan mail for Gene Simmons by accident. She didn't always realize it until she got to a line in the letter where the person said, "I love it when you spit blood."

Season 4 coming at you hard with the S tiers.

52:38 Didn't do what? Pass information to the Romulans? The result of the episode strikes me pretty clearly as the Klingon guy acted alone.

This episode was written by Jeri Taylor, who died a week ago. RIP.

48:30 It isn't so much "evil" as it is delusion and ignorance.

The hatch explosion being an accident and not sabotage had to be clearly stated. That's not something they could leave grey because then whether the admiral was in the wrong or not would be left grey. S tier episode

I don't know if you know TA but the idea of storing information in biological sequence data is actually a real thing. Course, DNA is more stable than protein sequences so they use that instead. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dna-the-ultimate-data-storage-solution/

Really loved the reaction. Just like the conclusion of this episode, no conspiracy involved in my takes getting liked, I just show up early and try not to say something too stupid.

Perhaps my favorite reaction and discussion video. You guys gave excellent points.

I'm sensing that the scores for this episode are in the 2nd word in this sentence. Banger week for strong episodes.

Your best discussion to date!

As a kid, when this aired, I didn't understand or like this episode, but I have the same feeling about it now that you do. Amazing writing, great speeches, important message.

I'm looking forward to revisiting this one. At least one TREK fan friend of mine rates it as his favorite. I don't. I just remember feeling that Jean Simmons' character was sadly cartoonishly "McCarthyish" and overdone. He didn't feel that way. Oh, well. I'll rewatch it with you all and see how I feel...

There is no sex score board update for this ep. This ep is so moving, so meaningful, so well acted, it seems wrong to update the sex scoreboard or even talk about sex at all. In fact it seems inappropriate to even make jokes at all………………. Which is why that is exactly what I will be doing. Has there ever been anyone that was less sexy or make you think less of sex than the female assistant. I mean WOW talk about automatic ball shrinking. Hey the Betazoid guy was someone that drained the sex drive from you too. That guy made Riker think about being a monk. Now the Admiral on the other hand mmmm. Early on she had a kind of, experienced, wild in bed sort of vibe. A, sleep with the school principle’s wife sex appeal, though I could not pull her. (A dean Wormer’s wife vibe from Animal house for those that get the reference). BUT the female aide. Good god, could her hair but done less sexy? (NO). She had no sense of humor, a face that only a ..… well no one would want to kiss. So uptight if you shoved a piece of coal up her ass, you’d get a diamond in an hour. Walking around taking notes on everything you do to be used against you later. Never forgetting anything you say or do and always taking things in a bad way. All in all she screamed one word ………………..WIFE…………. and is there anything less sexy than that word.

This was the last episode with Ron Jones' music.

As far as her outfit I find it interesting and yet distracting

its in my top ten of best episodes for sure. Jean Simmons is one of my favorite actors was in great movies like, Spartacus, Elmer Gentry etc. She apparently loved the show and wanted to be part of it somehow. I could listen to her voice all day

Man i’ve been slacking. Meant to comment on this episode prewatch but somehow i lazied out of it. Great episode! I love Picard court episodes.

Having been very vigilant watching out for this 😅

Aha, this is an absolute classic. I am hopeful you guys are going to dig this one.

Damn good episodes, that moment where Picard face palms then has the speach gives me the feels. That face palm is where the single hand Picard face palm meme image is from if it wasn't obvious.

Picard's speech is the star of this episode, but I really enjoy Admiral Satie's stories about growing up with her father and debating her brothers. And of course the Worf subplot is awesome. I look forward to watching this after disposing of all the neighborhood ghouls and trick or treaters this evening