UNCUT - Devil's Due (TNG S4E13) | Star Trek Journey 194
Due to our schedule this week we have to record the discussion on Saturday, but I didn’t want y’all to have to wait for the reaction. Discussion should go up later on Saturday or Sunday morning.
Comments (110)
This has such an OG feel to it with Ardra.
I really like this episode, but my one complaint is how certain Picard is that Ardra's a fraud based mostly on personal feeling. He doesn't seem open to the possibility she could be real at all. I also think it goes against Ardra's character to pursue Picard or claim the Enterprise as hers. She should know even if the Enterprise crew don't figure out a way out, that having the Federation after her wouldn't end well.
I cannot wait for the discussion on this one after seeing such a big gap in those rankings. I give this episode a B personally, mainly because Ardra is a fun antagonist and Picard's showboating at the end is great. I also like Picard's discussion with Data about the different effects of fear. But Geordi solving everything mostly offscreen and just in the nick of time, really knocks it down a bit. Also, since Picard and Ardra have been having a battle of wills the entire time, he really should have found the solution instead of just stalling for time essentially.
Where’s the Discussion? I’m not used to waiting anymore..
Did she jeopardize her whole operation for PD?
I accidentally gave this a B in the ratings thread. It should have been a low C. It had good bits but also felt bland to me. I went back to edit but y’all had already watched it.
You can change your ratings
this is the first episode of TNG i ever saw when it originally aired. what a strange introduction it was. C tier only for the guest actress who really shines with charisma. the klingon devil design is cool. it really feels like it’s from season one in quality.
That’s exactly what it feels like. Season 1.
I enjoyed "Devil's Due" even though it wasn't as popular with many of my friends. I was in a Star Trek fan club that met monthly when I was in college. We often discussed episodes and had watch parties. It was a reused script from Star Trek Phase II that never got produced in favor of doing Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The second season premiere, "The Child", was another Phase II reused script.
The anticipation as to why Josh gave this episode an S rivals the S3 cliffhanger!
I love this episode.
Did you say “reading book if you are smart”? That is a grim statement
Admit it. Josh gave it S tier because of the sexy devil lady.
This is the most "Harry Mudd" episode of Next Generation so far... a flim-flam artist capitalizing on the beliefs of another civilization for their own personal gain. She has a touch of charm and flair which makes her a bit of a likeable, if ultimately nonredeemable, character.
This one is definitely a B in my opinion. It is fun and is entertaining but not some kind of amazing situation. The S was a definite surprise but we all have our weird episodes that are pretty mid that we love more than most other people
I don't believe anyone else has mentioned it: Despite how much I enjoy this episode, it's also fairly preachy. It's suggesting that we humans need to revert to an agrarian society to save the Earth. 🙄
I never really got that vibe. The Federation has long been established as an idyllic society when it comes to traditional ails of the modern industrial world. In this episode, the Federation is made to seem superior to the "backward" people of that planet. I dont think they were shown as an example of what our society should be.
Humbug!
For me this episode is very entertaining provided you turn your brain off. When you actually think about the plot it makes absolutely no sense. Echoing what people are saying here, it is notable that is a recycled script from phase 2. I can't help but ask myself- did this woman really believe that the enterprise would be forever stuck by her tractort beam and cloak? That if that ws the case, starfleet wouldn't send more ships to investigate? That Picard would really be her love slave? Once you get past the fun goofiness of this, nothin she does makes any sense. Real scam artists act quickly, get what they want from the mark, then get out. The script was more obviously written for Kirk. From the beggining, Picard sees through this. Because of course it does. So the contrast between her impressive tricks and complete overconfidence and not thinking this through make it feel a bit like entertaining fan fiction. The vibe of this would fit in more with TOS where it always felt like the Enterprise was alone on the frontier and their ship wasn't that advanced, in fact in the original trek bible they were against solving issues by technological means so they frequent;y had setups where it was kirk and spock and the rest having to use their wits to deal with a more powerful adversary. TNG represents a different, much larger and stronger Federation, and this "adversary" is never really more ten an amusing distraction for our crew. I feel this might hve worked better if it was just the inhabitants of this planet who believed her and were under threat, the point where she claims ownership of the Enterprise it goes off the rails in terms of believability, despite the fun court scene which trek always does well. I don't dislike this per ce, it's just seems like a sudden tonal departure from what Trek has been at this point and Ardra is just too silly. The best I can come up with is she though Picard held some secret attraction to her and thus would submit to her because he wanted to. Even her attempt at giving him something "unattinable" fails as she picks Troi who Picard has zero interest in over the much better choice of Beverly, which at least might have made him feel something for a second. but all in all, she's just barking up the wrong tre with Picard, Kirk or even Pike might have made more sense.
Ardra's plan would have worked just fine if she had stuck with it. Instead, her lust for what she is told she can't have (Picard) got the better of her, and she got greedy and reckless.
If Audra had gotten Picard’s Captain’s ‘log’ by becoming Dr Beverly instead of Troi this would have been a very different episode. Imagine Audra showing up as Dr Beverly at Picard quarters DTF, would Picard have realized it was Audra?
I believe that Ardra never even met Beverly.
This is one of the weaker episodes of the season. An S? For this? An episode about a scam artist who pretends to be the devil? Its meant for laughs. A solid C.
An episode meant to be humorous and light can still be an S-tier. Depends on the value structure of who's rating it. Personally, I think this is a solid B+, S is definitely a surprise.
And here I was going to congratulate Josh for calling it off the top: "The MID season finale." Sorry, but as much as work is also likely to blame, I did nod off during this one... again. Also, actual congrats on makining it over halfway through TNG.
Technically they have 2 more episodes before the halfway point of the series. Because of the writers strike in season 2, there are 4 episodes less there than any other season. With 178 total, episode 89 (First Contact) is the series midpoint. But this is still the mid-season point.
I haven't had time to read the other posts, however I'll say that Ardra, in my opinion, is akin to a 24th Century Harry Mudd-type. Think about it.......... with the technology available a century after Kirk's time, Mudd would have had a blast getting his way more often than not. Imagine if the two of them met: would Ardra and Mudd team up, or compete? Or some weird combination of those two paths?
I don't think they meant mid-season finale as anything formal. Just a reference to what you might say now. New marketing folks just came up with these cool names for things fairly recently. Even season finales weren't really pointed out that much. But what they now might call the Fall Finale, we used to just call "the break between new episodes for the holidays."
Fall Finale? Maybe it’s just my age, but I always viewed September(starting Labour Day weekend) to be a sort of North American New Year’s growing up. It meant the start of a new school year/grade. The start of a new Hockey season(and basketball, but the Canadian in me was all hockey). And the start of a new tv season for your favourite shows( no 2-3 year waits for 6-10 episodes. A full 22-26 episodes every single year). It’s been 8 years since I had cable tv, but broadcast tv(not counting HBO or any non-broadcast/cable-tv only channels) was still very much about hyping the big season finale, usually right before the start of summer/end of school year. It may not apply outside North America, but finales were huge here as long as I can remember.
Wow, to put this in the same category as The Defector seems crazy. And isn't that HIGHER than Best of Both Worlds for Josh? I could be convinced to seeing at as a C easier. For me it jumps between B and C because it's entertaining, but has nothing very substantial and most of the crew have nothing to do.
I’m with Josh. This is what he like the most about Star Trek. Great characters in weird senecios trying to solve problems. The chemistry between Picard and Audra is awesome and we are kept in the dark until nearly the end how she’s displaying these ‘powers’. Great
I imagine this was going to be an early script in the phase 2 series given how often Ardra tells the audience what ship Picard is captain of.
Never realized this episode was so divisive. Definitely can't give it an S. S to me is the 25-30 eps that you look back at the show and see as iconic and really define the show and it's characters. Maybe 30-35 As being good, well executed eps that you're always down to watch. Bs to me are fun or interesting to watch, but still average in quality, while Cs are mediocre but not terrible. Ds have some potential or redeeming quality, but are overall bad, while Fs could be erased and nothing of value would be lost. I'd say this is a definitive B. It's fun, has some TOS vibes, some good character moments, and an amusing antagonist, but it doesn't really add to the characters of the overall story of the show much. It's a very self contained, filler type episode. Now that said, not every episode can be a MoaM, Wounded, BoBW, Defector, etc... If they all tried to be, I think it would be worse to have a bunch of episodes reaching for something they can't always achieve. Sometimes a simpler concept that's easier to execute competently and results in a reasonably entertaining if average episode is better.
Sometimes all you want is a REALLY good cheeseburger.
For me this was merely C or almost D tier episode.
The heavy TOS tonal shift in this episode from the rest of the season makes it glaringly obvious this is an old, recycled script - and it is. It was written for Star Trek: Phase II. The bones are obvious, even with a new skin draped over them.
It isn't that obvious to me. It is a bit of a stand-out, with the superstitious, religious, and preachy-environmentalist overtones. But I think it's a fine TNG episode!
I loved the music cue when she’s on the bridge in uniform and says “we live in a universe of magic.”
Oh and that dolly shot peering through the bridge wooden arch then swinging around as the crew comes down to take their stations, we see Audra fully for the first time as our crew does. Great direction.
The most exciting thing I got out of this episode is that Josh gave it an S! Lol can’t wait to see the reasons
Court room episode in TNG=Immediate S tier from Josh.
Dude, did Ardra give you a night visit for that "S" vote?
I gave this one an A. It's not a great episode, but it's a court episode, it's a Picard/Data episode, and it mostly takes place off the Enterprise, which is refreshing (and not in a wasteland where people are dying). Just a fun episode, and Marta Dubois seemed to be having fun, which I think all guest actors should have. I mean, how many guests get to wear a uniform, even if only for a few moments?
I just noticed on this watch that Picard is imitating Q when he performs Ardra's illusions - He snaps to make them occur!
I love this episode and it’s one I watch repeatedly when I throw on TNG while I work or something. It’s just easy to watch fun and mischief. But I’d give it a B. Solid episode, definitely better than mid, but there’s no way it’s on par with Measure of a Man, Yesterday’s Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Family, etc.
There is a lot to love about it. I like the score too.
You know what? After watching this episode, it could have fit perfectly into season 2. Look at the costumes and sets. Now revert back to the old uniforms and cinematography. It just felt like a season 2 episode, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
That's a nice cliffhanger for the discussion. I didn't remember this episode but it feels to me like a mix of a TOS god-character episode and a TNG courtroom episode. The bit of music that played when Ardra showed up sounded straight out of TOS.
I am expecting Siskal and Ebert style fireworks. For those that don't remember, film critics Roger Ebert and Gene Siskal had a show that reviewed movies. The big fun happened when they disagreed on a movie and argue up a storm.
Which is so incredibly tame by today’s standards, but they were indeed the kings of film critics (Ebert especially)
Cutting that off where you did is absolute CINEMA
Forget the presidential debates, seeing Alex and Josh argue between S and C tier is gonna be the fight of the century.
Rare take Josh, and I voted A with you. What Trek boxes doesn’t this tick? It’s a great Trek trope, executed well in both acting and story progression, but still done in a unique way. I’ll bet Q was very proud of Picard knowing ASAP that Ardra wasn’t omnipotent.
What does god need with a starship?
For me, it's a LOT of fun! I always liked this episode. I would not rank it as highly as an S. I would probably rank it around B+
would
I know people like what they like. But I am literally stunned that people like this episode. It's in my bottom 10 TNG episodes ever with what I think is a weak plot full of holes and bad acting by the main guest star.
It feels very Season 1 or Season 2-ish. On that scale I'd say it was a fun one with lots of great moments, but so many potholes you couldn't just blink them away.
Maybe one of the first times I've looked forward to the discussion even more than the reaction! S vs. C???? Daaaamn, what a cliffhanger. I'm not saying this is "wait all summer for Best of Both Worlds Part 2" levels of suspense, but it's pretty good.
I'm in between you guys on this one. B, I'd say.
(in Sulu's voice) Oh my!!
This is an S tier episode for me I absolutely love it
Cliffhanger ending 👏👏👏
It’s an easy mistake to make. You try to write a C, then a backwards C under it, and you get an S by mistake.
I would rate it an S also, if I were afraid of angering Ardra.
Love what you love, all opinions count, but I’ve always found this one toothless. Picard and company never break a sweat, have no reason to, so the stakes feel low. Feels like discount Q. The cast and crew are so good at this point they can make filler like this enjoyable even passable.
Believe it or not but you’re half way through TNG!!!
S4E15 is half-way through.
I think this is maybe the third time I’ve watched this episode since it aired - and it will definitely be the last! By far the weakest episode of the 4th season and one of the weakest of the series.
That’s a Goatse level spread in the rankings. Should make for a good discussion.
LMAO
This has always been a TOS -like episode for me. Catspaw comes to mind.
Fun episode. Alex has a look of "what have I done?" with his C rank at the end there lol. I'd call this one an A so Josh is closer but S is getting a little carried away ;)
Halfway point of Season 4 does put you exactly halfway through the full television run of TNG. And, since it's February of 1991, you're very quickly approaching the chronological mid-point of the pre-P+ era, too.
Finishing S4E15 will be the half-way point for TNG.
If you think this is an "S"... you aint seen nothing yet in this series. "Devil's Due" a freaking C- at best.
But they have, even just most of the first half of this season.
I’ve always enjoyed this one, it’s not great or A tier, nah but it’s a lot of fun and it’s totally sold by the guest star. Solid B tier I think.
been spoiled by weeks of reaction directly following the show now .. boom missing :( KHHHAAAANNNNN
And as TA member Nolan pointed out in the ratings for this episode, this story was already done to a certain extent in the TAS episode The Magicks of Megas-tu.
i'm not seeing the similarity. That was probably the most out there episode of TAS and thats saying something, but in that case the devil and the puritans actually were immortal powerful entities The only similarity was a trial.
S wow I'm shocked! :)
It's always bugged me that Captain Picard taps his communicator right before he thanks Riker for activating Ardra's effects while he makes his points. The comm channel was already open, tapping it would have turned it off.
It was muted. Tap to mute/unmute :P There, I fixed it lol
Oh my! S & C+! 🤯
Another recycled Star Trek Phase 2 story idea (like The Child in season 2). As such, it doesn't translate well into our cast now that they have become their own (and different) characters. This is D tier for me. The only redeeming scene is the opener with Data and Picard.
I don’t agree at all about this show not working for TNG and without reading the behind the scenes details there’s really no hint this was a Phase II script. It underwent significant rewrites to fit into the TNG verse.
I realize this is a stupid thing to talk about, but I want to address it since you brought it up here. This isn't quite the "mid-season finale." Now it IS the mid-point of the season. You are indeed haflway through S4 now. But as far as a mid-season finale goes, i don't think this is what it would be. Now, I know Star trek to this point doesn't do mid-season finales like some other shows do. Every episode is a new episode. But, I think if you were to count something as a mid-season finale. It would be an episode that is followed by a (at least) weeks long break. An example from another show (i know this is weird) is S3 of LOST, where in a 23 episode season, the mid season finale was E6. There were a lot of good reasons for this that dont matter here, but the point is that episode was followed by something like 3 months before the rest of the season was showed. Whereas here, the next episode was the next week. There was an episode that was followed by a (quick maths) 5 week break in this season. It was after E9, Final Mission. Usually with Star Trek the "break" happens earlier than halfway through because they take a break from Thanksgiving-Christmas and E1 is usually late in September. I know this ultimitely doesn't matter but I felt the need to clarify
Yeah this isn't a finale of any kind*. It's just another episode.
Holy hell, this will be an interesting discussion. Wow, S and C+. I've always viewed it as A-, B+ ish. It's *a lot* of fun (my guilty pleasure ep of the season) and they nailed a great story but I don't think it quite deserves the full A or S. And it's too good for C. C is like run-of-the-mill. This is above average for sure, just not exceptional. Looking forward to those rankings being explained. And I wonder if they rewatch it in the meantime if those rankings will change.
Agreed!
I always thought it'd be way funnier if when mentioning his long dead mentors he also included the actor "Patrick Stewart" or "Brent Spiner"
Would "break the 4th wall".
Y2K was a real thing.
I sold tons of copies of a program I wrote that updated the clock on most pcs.
Well we need a Captain's Log entry, but didn't get one. (need a hypo of blue pill STAT) The sex scoreboard Riker 8 Troi 3 Data 1 Picard 1 Worf 1 Jordy 1 & 1 i Broccoli 2 i Chief 1 Keiko 1 extras: Picard did NOT get a +1 but should have. Let's list all those that WOULD have received a +1 today if they had been in JLP situation: Riker, Worf, Georgi, Data, Broccoli, Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, Bones, all the red shirts, and after seeing Star Trek V I think Uhuru too. Not sure about Spock but he would find it fascinating.
Great episode. And Audra is hot hot hot.
Yup, honestly the episode works so well because Ardra has that X-factor about her. I bet Picard was secretly hoping to lose lol
"Method acting? I'm vaguely aware of it..." 🤣😂
This is a fun one, But I rate it a B. Josh and Alex's deferring grades should make a fun discussion.
Great episode it’s A tier for me
Your TNG reactions are fast becoming a highlight of my week. Love watching you guys discover how great life on the Enterprise-D was.
I love this one. Not sure why, but the dance between Her and Picard is still fun to me. The back and forth and the then the final twist was great. Not a solid A but a B+/A-
Jumped right to the scores because this one's a D or E for me. Can't wait to hear why you loved it (for real).
Haven't watched yet but thanks for the free trial membership, can't wait to try this out.
Welcome!
Josh was feelin it but Alex wasn't...... I personally enjoyed the episode and thought it was fun but my opinion of it fell somewhere in the middle. I gave it a B.
Thanks! Are we getting the next one on Sunday still? I'm excited about that one. :-)
Yes, we’ve already watched both