UNCUT - Family (TNG S4E2) | Star Trek Journey 183

Let Patrick Stewart cook

I knew you guys would love this one. All character stuff and a direct follow up from the last episode. You are viewing that slow move in television from episodic to more serialized. And Ron…this is classic Ron Moore. Mind you, Ron will have a clunker or two (I’m actually only thinking of one at the moment). But he is a solid writer. I liked the kid actor. Kid actors are tricky but TNG has done well in casting overall. I loved Worf’s family. In TOS of course Romulans were China and Klingons were Russians in the “cold war” allegory. So Worf’s family being Russian is a wink to that. Ron was a massive fan of TOS and he loves Klingons.

"S+"? Just you wait...

About the schematics of the enterprise you can look up schematics of current naval ships now too.

This was my favorite episode of the series. To leave most of the scifi trappings behind and just focus on the characters and what three of them have been through and really dig in was just amazing.

On the gripes and groans section… Everyone here wants something different. Alex and Josh have to produce what feels right to them. I’m a tough reviewer myself. I just reviewed a book I read a month ago and two complaints stayed with me for a month. Reading my review makes it seem like I hated the book. Some Trek fans don’t want criticism at all. I think covering all of Star Trek in production order is an outstanding goal. I will be honest. Time is a valued commodity for me. Tuning in to hear why BOBW gets a B or complaints about Family isn’t what I’m looking for. I grew up on this show. I love this show. I want to kick back and enjoy it when I have time for a rewatch. This channel tries to be more than that, and others may want that deep analysis. That’s totally valid, and respect for sectioning it off so we can have BOBW. I just don’t need to hear why the episode I’ve loved for years wasn’t as good as I always knew it was. You guys do you. Sincerely. It’s what clearly so many people here want and you’re bending backwards to appease everyone. I dropped another channel cold when one of the hosts so disrespected the content that we loved and his paying audience by having a tantrum in a rewatch. You guys produce quality content. Some of us may leave and come back and not quite gel, but that’s on us, not you.

Normal picard would consider the job, traumatized picard that just murdered his comrades as locutus would

Grief..watch out what you wish for you post 2009 you may get more than you ever could hope for

I actually thought the kid was fine and did a decent job. To each his own, though. Glad you guys liked the episode, it is one of my favs

I agree about the Jack Crusher actor's stiff performance... even though Beverly would have been younger there I also don't really feel she would have picked a pretty boy for herself like that. But I totally disagree on the others... I have seen Samantha Eggar and Jeremy Kemp in other performances ... They are fine actors and I believe they were wonderful here as Robert and his wife. I also liked the kid all right. As Worf's parents, Georgia Brown and Theodore Bikel were primarily stage actors... and let's just say it shows here.

S-Tier gentlemen

My only issue with this one is that it needs to be 20 minutes longer to go deeper on all of these stories. Couldn’t disagree more about Robert. Dude absolutely crushed it.

I love this episode and I think Picards storyline retrospectively improves Best of Both Worlds and gives you more of an idea about what was actually happening to him as Locutus which isn't necessarily conveyed in those episodes.

Josh, I'm with you on Jack Crusher and Worf's parents, but you gotta take the L on that Robert opinion. The actor was great!

What was that about Robert and Jean-Luc, and a french kiss on the cheek?

I am impressed by how many references you picked up on... maybe you guys are paying attention to the episodes... lol. Great reaction!

This one always hit harder as I grew up. Relationship with a sibling when you're ten isn't the same as when you're forty, so suddenly the scenes brought the feels outta me.

I kinda agree that you guys seem to be trying to full up the gripes section more than you naturally I would....but it doesn't bother me.

So Crushers dad's delivery worked for me because he is a holographic recording. He intentionally isn't looking at Wesley because he was looking at the camera (or whatever) and not Wesley. And I think that's the main reason he looks "wooden".

Wow, I thought this would be double S with all this emotional-babble lore drop. Alex is OK, but Josh probably has a head injury, maybe take him to the clinic. On to the next episode.

I agree about the actor playing Jack Crusher, though I think Worf's parents were good and I liked Robert's actor. I can understand your gripe about Worf's storyline, but personally I prefer it this way - it feels more subtle and more realistic to me, with Worf's line "I am glad you are here" doing more than a whole schmaltzy speech would.

“They took everything I was…they used me to kill…I couldn’t stop them. I should have been able to stop them…” Best scene in the episode. I cried. So heartbreaking.

Also, I like that "Gripes and Groans" are separate, personally. I think a lot of people can become defensive over their favorite episodes, only natural. Sometimes, they might want to skip over negativity surrounding the discussion and just hear what you both liked about it, if anything.

There are episodes I like more than Family in the future, many more, however up to now S4E2, it's my favorite episode of all of Star Trek. S+ is proper. The Picard breaking down is absolutely brutal, picturing yourself in that kind of environment. You're successful, you've met every challenge in your life head on and overcome it. And then come the Borg. The one challenge Picard couldn't overcome, and him coping with the fact that, as his brother says, he is just human being after all.

"Well, my brother is human after all." - One of my favorite lines of the whole series, which works on so many levels and packs a hell of a punch with where it's placed.

My predominant feeling about the Wesley plotline in this episode is that it is Jack Crusher more than the actor playing him who lacks skills as an on camera performer.

Jeremy Kemp was also in a well regarded episode of Space:1999 called Voyager's Return (which coincidently was going to be the pilot title of Star Trek Phase Two, which eventually became TMP) On the rotating SHOUT! Live stream on YouTube his TNG appearance always comes up in the chat.

Really just an excellent episode of the show, and you're not gonna believe this, but it's not even in the top 6 for season 4. OK, real talk I'd probably say it's my number 3, but that's not necessarily set in stone. There are a couple yet that are more impactful for me. To get the B and C plots out of the way, I'm mixed on the Wesley plot. It's certainly the weakest part of the episode, but it fits the theme. I think considering this is the last time he'll hear his father say something to him he hasn't heard before, I think Wil did a decent job in that scene. As for the guy playing Jack, yeah he does seem like some guy off the street reading a prepared speech into a camera, but then most people's dads are just "some guy off a street", and the character was reading a prepared speech into a camera. Does that mean it was the best choice for the director to make? Maybe not. it was OK though. I don't really have a problem with Worf's subplot though. As someone who had eastern European grandparents around their age in the 90s, they were pretty spot on. Perhaps that's a little anachronistic given the show is set almost 400 years after it aired, but I understand where they're coming from. Worf is no doubt correct that they'll never really understand what his discommendation means to him, and I think that's a crucial part of that story. They deflect with humorous stories about Worf's childhood or geeking out over the Enterprise, but that's because they don't know how to approach the subject with Worf. The scene where Sergey pulls Geordi aside to talk, or in 10 Forward, tells us it's hard for them too. They know they don't understand what Worf is going through, but they want to help, and they don't know how. All they know how to do in the end is let him know that no matter what, he's still their son. Picard's story is the real meat of the episode obviously, and I think Robert is pretty pivotal to that. Obviously Picard spends a ton of this episode with the whole "I'm fine" routine every time someone asks about his experience with the borg. That goes back to Spock saying the crew can't see the captain as anything less than perfect. But he needed to get his guilt and self doubt off his chest, and Robert saw that. Now obviously his rivalry with Picard wasn't manufactured just to make him open up. Those are decades old disagreements, and there's a healthy dose of resentment Robert also had to get off his chest, so arguably they helped each other. But despite feeling Jean Luc abandoned their family's heritage, and probably feeling alone in his own house in his desire to preserve tradition, in the end he puts those feelings aside. He uses their troubled past to push his brother into facing his pain, because he knew that's what he needed, and because he knew he belonged on the Enterprise, even if Robert himself doesn't much approve of his career choice. And then at the end, even though he had shown disapproval of Rene heading down the same path as his brother, telling Marie to "let him dream" shows he's not going to stand in the way of his son's choices. Even if he comes across as an ass for a lot of the episode, in the end Robert chooses the well being of his family over his own wishes. To me that says a lot about his character. So I'm with Alex on this one. S tier.

"Don't call me sir, I used to WORK for a living" is a very old, very classic joke that enlisted personnel in any military still cherish.

I don't know if you guys get these kinds of comments on every episode, but JEEZE. I already basically wrote this already in response to someone else, but to belabor the point: Alex and Josh are two dudes who love film, and people who love film love talking all about it, positives and negatives. Talking about things they don't like isn't "undeserved blow back" or make them big bad meanies. Lol. Like... calm down, go make some friends who have different opinions than you and go to some parties and chat about shows or movies you love. I guarantee you that you will never find a circle of people standing around like robots saying "this show was perfect and there were never any flaws and any discussion of things that could be better is heresy," "agreed, so say we all."

I refuse to believe that Picard fit all his clothes into that tiny overnight bag!

Maybe save “gripes and groans” for episodes that really deserve it and fold in any minor criticisms into the overall review.

I consider these episodes as a trilogy. Picard doesn't come to terms with his, well rape until this episode. But hey guys, how about a gripes and groans segment on you? 🤣🤣🤣

Always felt this episode could’ve done without the Wesley subplot. I do like the content but I feel like it should’ve been saved for a future episode where they can put a little more emphasis on it. Remove the Wesley subplot and you have 3 more scenes to give to Worf and his parents or Picard and his family.

S+ This is my second favorite episode of the season.

Sorry guys, but I'm not really feeling the Gripes section. I understand wanting to split off complaints to a separate section, but this felt to me like criticism for the sake of content rather than an organic discussion about what didn't work.

As I mentioned in the takes, when you posted that you were watching this episode, I literally just finished watching an episode of Columbo from the late '70s with Worf's father as the main guest star and Robért's wife as HIS wife. Hilariously I recognized him right away, but I had to look her up to realize why she was so familiar. And then a VERY young Jamie Lee Curtis showed up and knocked me for a loop. The last episode I watched, Kim Cattrall was in, and if not for her name in the credits, I wouldn't have recognized her, but she threw me for a loop because I was expect a child and she was in her 20s?!?! And that was after Enterprise-C Captain Rachel Garrett's actor made an appearance. Watching that show is WILD for this reason alone. Another fun one was reoccuring guest star Jack Cassidy, who I thought always did a good job, but also looked strangely familiar, only to find out his (illegitemate) grand-daughter is Katie Cassidy from Arrow, and suddenly I realized why the man's cheekbones always stood out to me.

I watched this rerun as a kid, and Picard’s storyline at first was the one I didn’t get into. Though was surprised and moved by the fight. Had a crush on Wesley and was happy with his performance. And I think the scene was about Wesley, so I think that’s why they just wanted a plain performance from the Dad. Thought it was better towards the end of the speech. BUT I loved the Wolf storyline. I didn’t see the episodes in order, and when I first saw this episode, I only thought of Wolf as getting hit all the time and being the butt of jokes. So this made me like Wolf a bit. And the campiness of the acting was just something you kinda gloss over at the time.

1:08:35 Josh, consider that the Enterprise wasn't *supposed* or planned to go to Earth anytime soon. Worf telling his parents by correspondence is perfectly appropriate.

1:05:10 Couldn't disagree more. I think your expectations are pretty out of whack, Josh.

I think Worf doesn't feel as broken as you might think he should because he knows that his discommendation was not a result of his own failing, but the failing of the Klingon government. It 'sucks', but he doesn't have a deep down desire to dwell on it. His outburst of 'must suffer it alone' is honestly how he feels he SHOULD behave as that was part of his agreement to keep the empire 'functioning.'

1:03:10 Worf seems to have a chip on his shoulder that his parents *can't* understand him.

A lot of shows will make a character get drunk to say something very emotional that the character normally wouldn’t say. A way to make it seem more real, as Picard wouldn’t break down like that sober.

At 1:07:11, discussing the acting/directing choices of Wesley's dad, a great way to summarize what I think you're saying is this: At the end of the day, you (the director) are telling a story, and making a point. Is the point that you're trying to sell what an awkward video recording from an actual dad to their newborn would be, or are you selling the emotional journey of Wesley's arc?

I never saw the point of Picard considering the other job anything that we were supposed to worry about. It was just used to show us how much he has really been traumatized.

I also gave this an A. A+ really. The kid, and I feel like there is too many endings in a way which kind of holds it back. 3 different sub plots and if they cut just one to give the others more time it would maybe put it over the top. The Jack Crusher critique I get, that scene for personal reasons still gets me. But he is a pretty vanilla Chad NPC.

Picard breaking down hit hard

52:12 Right before Picard broke down after their roll in the mud, Picard called him Robert (English pronunciation) not Robert (French pronunciation). Pretty sure that's a flub on Stewart. Whoops. But obviously they let it go and didn't re-shoot it just for that.

I don't believe that "S+" is a thing.

This one has always been in my top ten list, bear in mind I don't rank my top ten in order. It always hits me in the gut. Great reaction and analysis. I knew you guys would love it.

35:04 I guess in the future they still didn't figure out the difference between jealousy and envy...

Now I can recommend The Enemy Below with a great performance by Worf's stepdad, given your deep abiding love of submarine films.

Thanks to the recent fan mail haul, now you guys also have "all the specs and diagrams at home"

Regarding Worf's parents: While they do give some moments of lightness and levity, they aren't there for Worf to come to terms with or reluctantly accept. They're in the episode for the purpose of reaching out to Worf and making sure that he knows that he is not alone even though he is going through something that makes him think he should be alone. We don't need to hear anything from Worf, we already know where his head's at. Worf needed to be reminded he's got loved ones

Yeah I was neither here nor there about Gripes and Groans after E1 but now I'm against it. I don't think there needs to be a specific all negative segment that needs to be filled out, if there's something you don't like, just fold it into the overall review so it's not an obligation to find something.

By the time Josh is done talking, Alex's reranked his tier from S+ to E ;)

Totally agree re: the guest actors here, they are the fly in the ointment of an otherwise glorious episode. Jeremy Kemp, who plays Robert Picard, is actually a pretty good actor who just can't hang with Patrick Stewart (who can?), but the rest - Rene, Louis, Jack Crusher, Worf's parents... yikes. All yikes.

Boy how I have to disagree with Josh here about Jack Crusher. I absolutely love the realism of how the scene is presented. Wesley primarily would have old memories and imaged ideas of what is father would be like. Memories tend not to be super realistic, and get heightened. And of course imaged aspect of your parents life would likely be distorted versions of who they actually were. By presented a realistic portrayal made, for me, it significantly more impactful. This is literally Wesley's only time seeing his father not clouded by time and the perceptions from his memories as a child. For the first time ever, he gets to see him as he truly was. Doing the sequence with in a more typical Hollywood style utterly betrays the heart of the scene. The only real heighten dramatic acting should be from Wil Wheaton in that scene. As he is the one with the heightened emotional response.

Format note: I think it would be better if you leave your letter grade until after the discussion. Rarely does a fresh instant take represent your final grade, and sometimes processing time is needed. You both had BOBW1 pegged as an A until you thought about it.

I can’t agree with all of your gripes but I understand where you’re coming from as a modern viewer. My question is, do you think you two would’ve liked TNG had ya’ll watched it as kids (like many of us did)?

I blocked this episode from memory because of issues Troi would love to bother me about, but re-watched it because you guys did. My belated take is that Picard only goes on vacation if he can punch a mother fucker in the face.

Oh shoot, I thought Ernie Anderson was done with these promos in season 3, guess not!

man I guess I'm old because hearing things like "Chad" or "Rizz" just makes me roll my eyes lol

A good troupe of actors and writers don't need the crutch of 'plot'. But as a courtesy they'll generally toss us one as a treat.

1 of my few nitpicks is Worf's parents fall into an ethnic trope of being old, doting, Jewish mom and dad leaning into comedy. Also, agree with Josh about the Jack Crusher actor.

This episode is amazing. Your takes afterwards... oooof lol. Absolute massacre. I want to go off right now, but my food will get cold

Everything in the episode is really good, but the Robert/Jean-luc plotline alone solidifies this as my favorite episode in the series so far. It makes me tear up when we realize that Jean-luc, despite how much he and his brother hate each other, really just needed to feel safe being protected by his big brother.

Man, this episode is so damn good.

A (very) longstanding gripe/ nitpick you missed is O'brien having the Rank Insignia of Lieutenant, but in the episode his rank is finally stated as being Chief Petty Officer.

You guys are overdosing on the continuity nods

Wow. This episode hit me a lot more this time around.

Such an amazing episode, and also helps land the weight of the Best of Both Worlds 2-parter. It's a bold move too, to start the season itself with this totally "personal" episode that has no tacked on sci-fi plot, it's just a pure emotional drama episode. Naturally, Gene Roddenberry objected to it and said it wasn't necessary. I love Roddenberry, but it's hilarious how in retrospect everything he fought against was what made TNG and the franchise stronger and better. Season 4 really marks a transition into the Michael Pillar era where the emphasis is much more on each episode being hung on one of our major characters with more of an emotional core. TNG was already cooking in Season 3, but it truly comes into its own now. I can't wait for the reactions to come! Keep up the great work, guys. Love seeing you get emotionally invested, and there's SO many adventures to come.

You guys missed that your main boy O'Brien finally got his full name revealed: Miles Edward O'Brien. Prior to this episode, he was just O'Brien. He's come a long way from being "Conn" in Encounter at Farpoint

Everyone had a tan probably from real life summer vacations prior to Season 4 beginning.

I'm 100% with Alex on this one. Easily in my top 5 episodes of TNG ever

NICE! Josh asked for tier predictions in the live chat I NAILED the fact that Alex would go S+ (Said A+ for Josh - about to hear the commentary we'll see if he was borderline :D) S+ for me as well, Alex!

By far my favorite episode

So excited for this one <3

First episode to not have a single bridge scene.

You guys are spoiling us with these early releases. Daily reactions from now on? 😉😉

BUC-EES!

Josh’s mic is off at first but gets turned on a couple minutes in

Whaaaa I must have missed something but awesome!