PATRON TAKES - Star Trek 181 - The Best of Both Worlds (TNG 3x26)
Comments (55)
It's totally fair to not consider this to be on your top 5 as far as writing, especially moving forward. This episode for me goes beyond that though. For me this is more a series defining event than merely an episode if that makes sense.
I was too young to remember the cliffhanger I of course knew it left us hanging but I don’t remember the anticipation or anything..
I was genuinely curious if they were going to start DS9 around the same time as it canonically starts.. meaning like here soon. I might be mistaken but I think DS9 starts around season 4 episode 2 or 3. But it seems like we're going to have to wait another year or so before they get to
DS9 starts in the middle of TNG Season 6. Unless you mean canonically as in the timeline or something, but we do everything by release order.
"There were a bunch of you that joined for this episode! I mean... really?!" Oof.
It was talked about in mainstream culture. It was the first time I remember hearing TNG being talked about. The cliffhanger was a really big deal and the show caught on with a lot of people because of it.
Season 4....whelp, it's downhill from here... :D
Ummm no, I disagree...
I personally like Season 5 more than Season 4. Season 4 has lots of good to great stuff, but it has more episodes I'm more or less lukewarm about than Season 3 or 5 do. Plus Season 5 has my favorite episode. Of course, that's my humble opinion.
Several of my top episodes are in seasons 4 and 5.
TNG's ratings were always good enough for renewal. It wasn't really even that close. But ratings showed hints of improvement (or more to the point stabilization and slight improvement). But with the water Cooler aspect of the summer. TNG ratings in season 4 were significantly higher building through season all of season 6 and reaching levels where if it was compared to Network tv would often qualify as a top ten show. It also did exceptionally well with male viewers, young viewers, and viewers with income and higher education. Meaning not only were ratings very good, they delivered very high ad rates. Thus TNG really started to become a cash cow in the way the TOS reruns had generated massive sums of money for Paramount over 2 decades at that point.
I guess my one comment got deleted. I wasn't actually spoiling anything though. Just pointed out one of the questions had accidentally done a bit of spoiling.
Sorry that might have been my comment, I did change it but it looks like the guy's recorded the episode by the time I did.
To be fair about riker ….. would you want to be a captain of a random ship or first officer of the flagship
Thats a huge plus.
I believe TNG had a relatively high Nielsen rating and was a very valuable syndicated show as early as season two and was never in any danger of being cancelled. There really wasn't much competition for the big three networks (ABC, NBC & CBS), they were pulling 20s for their top series (Cheers, Roseanne-even Doogie Howser, M.D. was getting a 14), while TNG was getting something like a 10 rating share (which was really fantastic for a non-network series). If TNG had been on one of those networks, it most certainly would have been cancelled, but in syndication the main concern was revenue, not competition. It cost about 1 million per episode to make and was generating 10 million per episode in revenue, by season four. Each episode also aired twice a week. The first airing had 3 or 4 minutes of local avails and the second airing doubled that, so individual stations that bought it, got a lot of ad time to sell each week vs. their locals on network shows where they only got one minute halfway through and one minute at the end.
In space, no one can hear the Borg pumping out their theme song. It's a vacuum, we're not sure why they're doing that. But no one tells them, because fuck my dick off it's the Borg let's get the hell out of here.
Still think it's the best cliffhanger because it's so extremely "immediate." Meaning, it stops so abruptly that the resolution to that moment is right after To Be Continued .
In my opinion, Part 1 is really good, but Part 2 is better.
You've made comparisons between this and City of the Edge. You know .... I don't think this show has had its City on the Edge type episode yet. There's a candidate or two, and it's not this.
Yes this a great episode but it's too dark and actiony for that. To be compared with City on the Edge, an episode needs more of an inner lightness.
They don’t “shave against the grain” Alex and Josh give their honest opinions. I believe honesty, and authenticity is what separates them from most reaction channels .
You basically described Rich from Red Letter Media's experience. When he first heard of TNG, he was convinced that Star Trek could never be Star Trek without the original cast, and concluded that the show would suck. He caught an early season 1 episode that wasn't that great like Code of Honor or something, and this seemed to confirm his bias. So he never gave the show a chance again. UNTIL the summer when suddenly everyone was talking about this cliffhanger and how they turned Picard into a Borg. THEN he got curious and started checking the show out, and realized that it actually had some really great stuff in it, and he was stupid for dismissing it. He's been a fan ever since. I'm sure a lot of other people had a similar experience. Without this episode, TNG would have likely been cancelled after Season 3. But the hype this episode caused brought in enough viewers that it cemented TNG's future into 7 seasons. As for season 4, season 3 got all the hype because it was the breakout season as someone else mentioned. It's the season where TNG finally figured out what it was. Depending on how you view it, it's either "the first good season" or "the last bad season" though I'm sure most people consider it to be the first good one. From here on out, TNG is a lot more consistent because they figured out what works. You're still going to get some duds every once in a while, or some weird episodes that didn't really work, but in general the quality level is going to be consistently on par with season 3 or higher.
I had the same experience. Star Trek without the original crew was unthinkable for me. So I pretty much didn't join until season 3. I can't remember it it was because of Best of Both Worlds explcitly. As I am living in central Europe there also was a delay of one or two years before TNG came out. Mainly because of the dubbing. Fun fact: Patrick Stewart got a different german voice actor mid series which upset the hell out of the german speaking fans. And the network listened! They switched back to the first actor for the last seasons of TNG and the movies.
You got your wish. That was the LAST episode promo done by Ernie Anderson. It's all Don LaFontaine from here.
The only other season cliffhanger I knew of before TNG is Dallas, with the 'Who Shot J. R.?" Which was a sensation.
The command structure on the Enterprise: Picard, Commanding Officer. Riker, Executive Officer, 2nd in command. Data, Operations Officer, 3rd in command, LaForge, Chief Engineer, 4rth in Command. Worf, Tactical Officer/Chief of Security, 5th in Command.
Did no one mention that all summer Patrick Stewart was in some intense contract negotiations for season four (he wanted more money...lol). This was known to people who read entertainment magazines. So the possibility was in people's minds that maybe they would kill Stewart off screen. So there was legitimate uncertainty (apparently...I was an 11 year old and wasn't following all that).
Regarding whether or not Josh and Alex should watch Part 2 now: Josh & Alex: "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Me: "Shut up and watch it."
Shelby is a commander, so she outranks Worf (Lieutenant) and Geordi (Lieutenant-Commander). Other than Riker, she is the only full Commander on the crew. It would be very hard to justify promoting them over her. It would constitute a judgment that Shelby is not deserving of her rank and amount to Riker putting a black mark on her record.
Shelby is at this point, not a full Commander. She is a lieutenant commander, equivalent in rank to Data, who is already the ships second officer. Shelby, however, has been working for Starfleet Tactical, overseeing the anti-Borg thing. She's already an expert, and removing Data from Ops would make an unnecessary hole. Under the circumstances.
I predict that you will really like most episodes of Season 4, simply like the remainder of the twenty-five episodes and DESPISE one.
It is from this point forward that Dr. Evil demanded that all the sharks had to have laser beams on their heads.
I don't see anybody watching this as their first episide being confused. The show explains who Riker is, what his role is, and who the Borg are. People can fill in the blanks and don't need the Q episode or even any episode to enjoy this. As a matter of fact, if I was selling the show this might be one I'd push if I wanted the audience to stick around for another.
Love Alex's appreciation of the Riker Worf bromance.
In being so certain that Picard is coming back (not saying you're correct), I'm afraid you guys are missing out on at least some of the drama in this one. At the time that wasn't at all certain, either to the audience or to the writers. Stewart's contract renewal was still under negotiation, and the writers had to give themselves room for it to go either way.
Obviously I could be wrong, but I don’t see turning into the Borg as the way they would write Picard out of the show if he was leaving….. if it is I will criticize it lol
"Waiting 'so' long" GOT 7-8 hiatus: Hold my beer.
From what I remember at the time, Star Trek TNG was still going through a lot of scrutiny by the audience up to this point. There hadn’t been a Star Trek series since the 1960s and there was a big anticipation for this series . When TNG first came out a lot of it was compared to TOS and a lot of people were not happy because they were looking for a similar TOS vibe. Also, the group that I watched TNG with was hoping that Riker would be the next captain since he was much more like Captain Kirk.
Ok, I gotta say, having one earphone each really did a disservice to your ability to appreciate the score.
Maybe, but it’s mono just like when we were using the TV audio, so it’s the same experience we’ve always had (in person) and we’ve praised plenty of scores
I should clarify that my comment abour "shaving against the grain" was more that sometimes your tastes run contrary to the general concensus among fans, not that you guys are trying to stir up shit.
Welp, someone asked a question referring to something that happens in part 2. IDK if the boys caught that it didn't happen yet or was a hypothetical, but great job. Gotta be careful, people.
The twist is The LORE is talking about his own take!!!
I will forever continue to submit comments just to see Alex struggle to pronounce my name.
"Egg... Eh... EnugmoticPunkoon."
I really felt the Boys fell off a cliff this season. Well, actually I quit watching it so I guess I can't give a fair assessment. House of the Dragon has been great. Shogun and Fallout are the only other standout TV shows for me this year.
Thought you were talking about us at first 💀
I wrote you guys the perfect troll comment and you don't read it. *kicks over some bullshit* FINE! *Slams door and storms off*
I said in the recording “Steve is trying to get his take read by posting bait but it’s not gonna work” but then realized even saying that is still taking the bait so I cut it 😎
Yes! My take by this point was always that Riker wanted to Captain the Enterprise and no other ship would do.
I always interpreted it as he wants to be a captain, but he also loves working on the Enterprise and loves working with Picard, so the position he has is too good to leave. My husband and I have been in similar work situations where technically if we left where we were we'd have better career opportunities, but the atmosphere of where we're already at us just too good to leave. We know we'd probably always be happier where we are than if we left for something that looks better on paper. Plus, this whole episode is about Riker questioning his AMBITION, not his abilities. Ambition can be a good quality to have, but if you get too focused on it, you lose touch with wisdom and seeing all of the other things that are important. Just as Picard said in Tin Man, it's not always about speed and getting there first. In the same way, it's also not always about just getting the highest rank. As Troi said, being on the Enterprise has "seasoned" Riker, which basically means he's wiser now. Whether he fully realizes it or not, he's understanding that it's not all about the ambition of wanting to be Captain as soon as possible like he previously thought. If he's in a good place and he likes it enough, then he doesn't ever NEED to be captain. He already has everything that makes him happy. The episode contrasts this with Shelby who doesn't understand that wisdom at all and is basically pure ambition. If she's what Riker used to be, then I'm glad Riker finally grew up, rounded out, and gained some wisdom to offset that. The episode also warns that ambition taken to it's furthest extreme is actually the Borg. There is a line where the virtue of ambition becomes a vice.
One more thing….This episode, believe it or not, made TNG a “water cooler” show, where people were talking about it the next day. Others, who were overhearing the hype, checked it out, and a whole slew of fans were hooked. More accurately, season 3 was the “break out” season where it starts to find its footing, instead of saying that S3 is suddenly awesome. But BOBW capped it off as “this is where the show took off” kind of vibe.
One of the great things about week-to-week release of episodes is anticipation. In this ADHD instant gratification world we live in, people are conditioned to be impatient. There’s something to be said about building anticipation. My opinion is that its always been better that way. I’ve gotten into arguments with co-workers who disagree with me, and I just don’t get it. If you love a show that much, the whole point is to wait so you can think on it and rub your hands together, ready and excited to see what comes next. Society has lost a big part of that, and its disappointing.
True, and it’s not only young people who are impatient as regularly proven by our audience 😆💀