FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E21 - Hollow Pursuits

For anyone interested in what the difference is between introversion and autism in cases where it might not be so clear, check out a youtube channel called Autism from the Inside. Specifically, this video by him is why I think Barclay is actually autistic, not just introverted or social anxiety. (Video contains nothing about Star Trek whatsoever, so no risk of spoilers) https://youtu.be/y9bwUb-M1Bg?si=cQODrsSsZf0VeQ28

It's been over 30 years since I first saw this episode, and I never realized until the opening moments of your discussion that the title is a pun ("Hollow Pursuits"/"Holo-Pursuits")!

Everyone wants to be a Riker or a Data unfortunately I’m a Barclay. Except he’s actually good at his job. I can’t science well. Wesley wasn’t a dick he’s a perfect little boy genius so he just steamrolled broccoli. 😂 There was one episode of TNG I never saw for years! I’m not remembering which one now but somehow I kept missing it for like 20 years and I finally went back and watched it. It felt good to savor one last adventure with the boys. 😆

This episode also was forward thinking, anticipating deep fakes and certain kinds of "erotic" recreations of real people using AI and the ethics of it. The touched on it, but it was 1990 and the biggest problem was photoshopping heads onto other people's bodies.

The thing I find unrealistic in this is that in the 24th century people don't seem to know about extreme shyness, including medical professionals like Counselor Troi, the one person who should know. Was "Introvertism" cured by the 24th century to the point no one recognize it like people would not recognize smallpox today?

I get the feeling that Barclay is banned from the holodeck after it all.

Love your opening to this lol.

With Geordi i think intent matters he didn't make the Bhrams hologram for any sexual or self-gratification he was working on the issue and the computer helped fill in the gaps. Barkley made the people he personally knows with the intent of having control because he felt out of control with them but he knew why he made them

Great episode, even better reaction. Thanks guys as aways for doing what you do... On a side note... Love how Geordie will never live down the Leah Brhams holodeck feasco... 😅

Theory: There was no facsimile of Picard in the holodeck. That was just Picard having fun getting into costume. That's why Barclay didn't really get into trouble.

Not recognizing Howl'in mad Murdoch from A-Team is a cardinal sin.

Would have been more hilarious if holo-Josh was giving Alex a massage or something.

With Riker not understanding or liking people like Tam and Barclay, again, I think it just comes down to personality theory. Riker said it best in this episode. His tolerance only goes so far. Unfortunately that's how it is for everyone. We all start with ourselves when it comes to which people we are going to understand and gravitate towards. It's like we all have a bubble that starts with ourselves, and expands out. It will expand out less for some and more for others depending on how accepting we are of differences, but we all have a limit where somebody is going to be outside of this bubble. Riker is an Extrovert, an Artisan, and an S-type. He's very charming, ambitious, personable, sociable, and about as neurotypical as it gets. He's also very healthy, and he's basically the poster child of how to do all of these things well. His sphere of tolerance is also very broad. Basically, as long as you are at least somewhat sociable and are able to mostly fit within the established norms, Riker's not going to have a problem with you. But you get people like Tam and Barclay, where Tam is straight up antisocial and rude and his mind reading ability completely throws off everything we know about how to socialize, and Barclay who straight up can not function in society, and Riker has no idea what to do with these people. They are about as polar opposite from him as you can get, Introvert, Idealists or Rationals, N-types, very off putting and uncomfortable, no ambition, do not understand or want to be around people, antisocial, unhealthy, are about as neurodivergent as you can get, and they are both really struggling with what life has dealt them. Not only is Riker not going to be able to understand those people, but we actually have a tendency to dislike and not trust people who are too opposite from us. This is because part of who we are is based on what we value. Riker values socialbility for instance. People who are opposite from us actually tend to devalue what we value, and value what we devalue. In Riker's case, what he devalues would be social isolation, making others uncomfortable, and not following generally accepted standards. Tam and Barclay basically embody and need everything that Riker can't stand. Therefore he can't understand them, and doesn't like them.

Personally, I always wondered more about Barclay's previous captain. While maybe Riker is just overreacting, I found the idea that the other captain not only wanted to get rid of Barclay but also was able to possibly trick Picard into being happy to have him very interesting. But it's kind of a Trek tradition to show us other captains aren't necessarily as great as Picard is.

Regarding the AI discussion of it with actual peoples likenesses. I think its only wrong if your intent is to distribute it. People have fantasies, people have crushes, Budding teenage youths to adults fantasize about people they know, celebs etc in their head with their imagination all the time. Its always been thing, if you were to enhance your experience by making your fantasy/dream an interactive simulation for yourself and yourself alone, how is that any different? How is it harming anyone? How is it different from just picturing it in your head other than its way more realistic and immersive as the program? Or someone writes a erotic fanfiction about their crush? We going to start regulating imagination? Now if you were trying to distribute/make public/profit that's where you are crossing the line. I have zero issue with what Barclay did except not including a damn locking sub routine for the holodeck door lol. I would also perhaps would have put an additional security measure for the characters to deactivate or the program saves an ends if someone overrides the lock and comes in without authorization.

I believe there is a lock on the Holodeck, because the two people we see open it go to a panel and type something in, which I'm guessing are their access codes because it's the chief engineer and the executive officer we see doing it. I can't believe that Captain Picard is expected to go in there, and just anybody can walk in while he's doing whatever he does to relax, whether it's fishing, fighting, or f#cking.

20:00 this is an old school television show stylistic thing. We are supposed to take it that everything is fine between the rest of the crew and Lieutenant Barclay from now on

It’s been more than 30 years and I just got the pun.

The disrespect from Wesley didn't really make sense, as unlike Wesley Reg passed the Academy Entrance Exam, Graduated from the Academy, and recieved a Promotion to Lt JG. Wesley holds a title that only holds meaning on the Enterprise where Nepotism is allowed, as far as StarFleet is concerned he's a nobody who failed an exam.

Lots of people have misconceptions about what an introvert and an extrovert actually are. Introverts especially are misunderstood and tend to be associated with a bunch of negative or socially isolating traits. Like in this case, social anxiety. Not all introverts are like Barclay. I'd say Barclay definitely has other stuff going on in addition to being an introvert, such as social anxiety most definitely, and I'm convinced he's neurodivergent. He's either an N type, most likely a Rational, or he's on the autism spectrum in addition to being an N type Rational, with social anxiety, and possibly even social anxiety disorder. And even then, Barclay would be able to function perfectly fine with these things if he had the right supports in place and handled them in a healthy way. With Barclay, we're looking at someone who handles these things in unhealthy ways because all he's ever been exposed to is people who expect him to be "normal" like everyone else, and shun him when he's not. So everyone becomes a threat that he doesn't know how to handle except to hide from them so he can actually be himself. And he shames himself for not being able to meet these unrealistic social expectations, so that makes him want to hide more and be extra defensive. He never had healthy strategies modeled to him because no one actually understood what was going on with him. What people don't know and frequently misunderstand is according to Carl Jung, there is only ONE difference between an Introvert and an Extrovert, and that is hiw they recharge their energy. Introverts recharge by being alone, and are drained by socialization. Extroverts are energized by socialization and are drained by being alone. And to what extent someone does this can vary greatly. Some introverts are actually energized by being with a small friend group for example, but are drained by large crowds. And some Extroverts even need a socialization break from time to time. Believe it or not, Geordi, Picard, and Troi are all normal introverts. Introverts can actually be very sociable. Especially if they're at work when they need to be "on." They just need time to themselves to recharge. Captain's Holiday actually showed the difference between Introverts and Extroverts by contrasting Picard and Riker's idea of an ideal vacation. Picard recharges by being alone with his books, but Riker, an Extrovert, energizes by socializing with the local women which he tries to force on Picard so he'll "have a good time" when that actually annoys the hell out if Picard and he just wants to left alone so he can think, because he recharges by NOT socializing. We saw Troi's introversion too in The Price when she had no interest in going to the wormhole social event because she was drained, and she was even starting to find her entire ship's counselor role draining because she wasn't letting herself "turn off." That's more what normal introversion is when there's nothing else going on. Calling Barclay an Introvert is almost as bad as calling him "shy." There's actually a lot more complex stuff going on which is one reason why I love this character. By the way, I can relate because I also have a lot of Barclay's stuff going on in addition to just being an introvert. When you have disorders, simple things become impossible. If you're just an introvert, you can still function normally in society.

I love the "...spoiler for the Benchwarmers?" comment lol

Really good discussion here you guys! Episodes like these that deal with moral dilemmas are Trek at its best.

Riker is an absolute 100% Extroverted Alpha Male. In personality tests, EXTROVERSION is measured by percentage. Extroverts can sometimes be overly judgemental of introverts... especially one who is 100% INTROVERTED like Reg. I used to work for someone exactly like Riker. He was a black-belt karate expert. Women flirted with him constantly. Over 6 feet tall. A guy had no chance with the ladies with him around. Unfortunately, it's 30 years later and people change alot in 30 years. If only there was a way we could live forever in new bodies.

So I have a general question about spoiler policy. Is it ok to mention in a broad sense if a topic is explored or not in later episodes show without giving specifics? For example, when they say "Maybe thats a DS9" episode would it be spoilers to say "DS9 doesn't do holodeck stuff" or "DS9 actually does explore some of the things you're talking about" I asked because I got temporarily booted for saying some general things about this season's finale that I thought wasn't at all specific but would have been useful for context going in (what was going on at the actual time of the episode). Looking back, while I didn't say anything specifically spoiler, I can see how something I've said could have.... given a hint about something very general about the episode, but it feels like just by generalized knowledge about the course of an pld franchise, there are some things that are "spoiled" that wouldn't have been at the time. "Safe" examples are how they knew Tasha Yar didn't stay with the show for its whole run, which viewers at the time couldn't have known, or that Dr. Crusher was returning at some point and wasn't permanently written out of the show in season 2. It's tricky for me because I'm a fan of retro-active continuity which makes it tricky as there are observations and comments I want to make in terms of how certain episodes establish certain things, but even saying that is in a strict sense a spoiler because they only find out things are established by seeing future episodes. Is there a spoiler/comment policy somewhere?

32:00 They could have/likely programmed the table to persist despite the destruction and end of the rest of the simulation.

24:30 LOL!! Oh boy. None of us Patrons would ever dare to fantasize like that...

I think this episode is perfect. I wouldn't change a thing. From the musical swell when Barclay kisses "Goddess of Empathy" Troi on the holodeck, to Picard's mortified stunned silence, to Barclay's nervous stammering, to "Little Jack Horner" Wesley.

Well ya gotta love Dwight Schultz as Murdock in The A-Team.

I think Barclay being able to solve the plot problem actually speaks a lot to the uniqueness of his character. I'm coming from a psychology perspective though. On the one hand, Barclay is an Introverted Rational according to Keirsey's Temperments/MBTI. On yhe other hand, I'm convinced that Barclays is on the autism spectrum. Specifically he fits the profile of what used to be called Asperger's. Anyway, there is a reason why these people are called Neurodivergent. They literally think differently than most people. Their strength is they see things that most people never think about or notice, and they are particularly good with pattern recognition. I'd say that even Barclay's crew recreations are a form of pattern recognition by how he interprets certain traits of theirs in a fantastical setting. But yeah, the perfect example of this is how Barclay is actually the one most uniquely suited to solve the seemingly disconnected problem. He saw the pattern that tied everything together when no one else could. He was even frequently one step ahead of the engineering team because he kept coming to the same conclusions as them before they did because he was arriving at those conclusions through different ways. His problem solving did a good job of representing some of what neurodivergent people have to offer that no one else can.

As far as the locks thing, there are locks, it's pretty clear when Geordi first interrupts Barclay he doesn't just walks in, he inputs something into the panel to open it. So yes its not just like anyone can walk in but command officers can override that and open it.

Re: locking the holodeck, while you were watching and kept yelling "lock the door!" it made me think of a line in the movie The Final Countdown. It's aboard a US Navy aircraft carrier, and one of the officers has the line: "one thing we value on board ship is privacy, probably because we have so damned little of it!" You reminded me of that line.

I think Riker in this episode has to be the hard-nosed XO. It's his job to make sure the crew is doing their jobs (and their efficiency ratings are appropriately high for the Enterprise). Barclay is hurting his averages! That reflects on Riker, and I guess he didn't handle that very well.

I would say, concerning Riker's attitude, he's the XO. At the end of the day, he's responsible for the performance of the crew. And Reg just being so negligent in his duties potentially makes him look bad. and puts him in an awkward place.

Lol, I always like the little skits.

no way would i use a holodeck knowing someone could just walk right in. i guess as the show likes to mention every so often , 'we do things differently in the future', leading to 'privacy doesnt exist we share everything together"

Also, there has to be a way with AI to use the announcer's voice for a promo for Next Time on Taaarget Audience

Does no one think the reason the promo highlighted whatever danger/action this episode had is because the hook of a shy guy on a holodeck isn't really interesting enough to even potentially reel in someone who has never seen the show before? Who having never seen Riker or Troi before would be enticed by a fake version of them? This episode was ok, just seems like another 70s family drama story in space, it isn't a shy kid at school, but it is a shy kid in engineering.

I also wanted to say, this episode really elevates Geordi for me. He doesn't just treat Reg better because he was ordered to.. He seems to really take to heart that he wasn't treating him well and really sincerely puts in effort to reach out and make up for it. an aspect of the episode I find really touching

You guys were CAPTIVATED by this one. The quieter you guys are when viewing, the better the episode.

top tier reaction and discussion guys. It's a tough topic, representing real people with Ai for "private" reasons. Personally, I don't think something is being done to me if something is done to a picture or model of me. Doesn't matter how highly detailed that picture or model is, it's not me. Might it make me embarrassed or uncomfortable to find out? Sure, but that's why there should be a damn lock and a Privacy Required warning on the holodeck door lol. So long as it isn't being used to harass me. You said yourself during the reaction Josh, the holodeck is basically just being in your head. Anyhoo.. great videos today

Did you notice that Geordi has been promoted from Lieutenant to Lieutenant Commander? I noticed because Picard addressed him as “Commander.” I thought he was talking to Commander Riker, but then Geordi replied. One might read into it an undercurrent of “we promoted you to senior management; you need to start senior managing better.”

Don't be so hard, Josh. You have to consider that there was no Internet in 1990. Fanfiction was just written words that didin't spread much around.

Odd that a crew hired and trained to make first contact with alien species have no idea how to do so with one of their own.

Great discussion as usual guys. I understand wanting things to be connected, but I think that if Barclay had learned something from his holodeck scenarios to help save the ship, that would have undercut the entire episode. Barclay's arc was about being present in the real world and not hiding in a holodeck fantasy. If the holodeck had provided a solution somehow, it would have subtly validated the behaviour that he was trying to move away from. While the episode presents Barclay as a sympathetic character, it doesn't necessarily condone all of his actions.

I must confess with hindsight Barclay is my favourite Star Trek character. I was a fan of the A-Team, Murdock in particular, as a teenager but Barclay grew on me with rewatching. I really enjoyed your views on the character and I agree except I do think there are at least implied consequences. Troi saying "We have a lot to talk about Mr Barclay." and him name dropping her before deleting his programs (except Program 9) puts him squarely in her wheelhouse, most likely complying with some kind of therapy. Maybe it's my headcanon but this is probably a disciplinary condition. All things considered, although he overstepped boundaries it's not like the Enterprise got hijacked by aliens while he was distracted on the holodeck ~cough~Riker~cough~

Little Riker! Lmfao!

Let’s be honest, wouldn’t it be tough for most of us to end up with a therapist who you find very attractive?

I think Riker hates the idea of someone not doing their job well, but especially in the case of just plain being unreliable. And also, the shows tends to suggest that the first officer is the guy who would be the one to discipline the crew.

I enjoy y’all’s sense of humor and creativity.

The riker stuff is interesting. He is being a realistic XO based on real world naval officers XOs being responsible for discipline of the crew on behalf of the Captain. On the other hand yes there is an element of Riker representing the normal folks or popular/jocks as you called them. Barclay was written to represent the stereotypical awkward star trek fan with bad social skills etc….and in the 1980s context of the show…when nerds where absolutely not even remotely cool or accepted….riker was being pretty normal to be honest…he represented what most people could not say out-loud or as forcefully

One thing I ALMOST mentioned was it's really funny about how the Talosian power of illusion was so dangerous it destroyed their whole planet and as a result Starfleet ruled it off limits with the DEATH penalty, and yet 80 years later, here, have a holodeck!

To your point about Barkley not learning something from the holodeck that helps solve the mystery… I don’t think that would fit the moral of the story. The weight of the moral was on Geordi—by listening to Picard and allowing Barkley to be a part of the team, Barkley saved the whole ship. If Picard had agreed with Riker and not told Geordi to be his “best friend,”the ship would have been destroyed.

34 years and I’ve just realised Hollow Pursuits is a play on the the word “Holo-pursuits” 😂😂

I was wrong, they got it and they liked it. These guys are becoming unpredictable. Lol

There is a Star Trek series called Lower Decks that focuses on lower deck ensigns. It's animated tho.

I'm glad you called out Riker's behavior. I think it actually does fit because he's so senior in the crew and has such a confident personality. He probably doesn't show his softer side to very junior staff in other departments and can't empathize as easily with an anxious introvert like Barclay. To Barclay he would seem overbearing and bullying where our main cast is not threatened by Riker and would find him more playful and warm. We all have different sides to our personality that come out in different settings.

Best intro ever

That was the best hook YOU guys have done, and this is one of the most fun TNG episodes yet. 🥦 is an absolute fan favourite and, as episodes continue, a wonderful commentary of seeing the ability in people beyond their disabilities. And yes, Dwight Schultz is an incredibly skilled actor from A-Team!

Long Live Barclay! 🥦🥦🥦

Early on in season 1, there is some dialog that let's us know that the Holodeck is rather unique to the Enterprise (pilot?). As time goes on, there seems to be some "power-creep", and it sounds like holodecks are more prevalent, at least for other starships and starbases.

I love this episode! Reginald Barclay is a gem you didn't know you needed.

There was a moment when Geordie was talking to Barkley and mentioned hollow addiction and how he even fell in love on the hollowdeck. You might have missed it?

You got your fake name in my fan submission! You got my fan submission in your fake name! Guys, why can't it be both??

Best intro ever! After Captain’s Holiday I was afraid of what you’d think of this episode, but I’m glad you enjoyed it so much. Reg is one of my favorite guest characters they’ve had. The actor is phenomenal, and having seen him in A-Team for so long, it was a shock to see him play such a different character in TNG but he nails it.

Excellent intro, guys. S-tier.

These intro skits are gold