FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E16 - The Offspring

This ep should have won Emmys. Really well acted by the entire cast. Spiner and Stewart were just amazing! This is why TNG is the best one! :p

Loved rewatching this episode with both of you. Such a classic of TNG, and also all of Star Trek. What a dynamite introduction of Jonathan Frakes as director. Really enjoyed the discussion and your genuine reaction.

Josh *almost* cried when the dying Nancy Hedford said she had never been loved in "Metamorphosis" (a Ralph Senensky episode). According to the TNG Season 2 Writers' and Directors' Guide, Pulaski has three children by three different men (presumably the three husbands she mentions in "The Icarus Factor"). Beverly (who was not yet "Dr." or "Crusher") overlapped with Data at Starfleet Academy, and according to at least one of the original novels they knew each other while they were there, which the TV series neither confirms nor denies. (They have no introductory scene together in "Farpoint.")

Re: Frakes directing--He asked about it in season 2, and bugged the producers enough that they agreed, so long as he went to "Paramount University," which was their tongue in cheek phrase for shadowing various directors and editors and putting in extra time watching how the show was made, in addition to his acting. He did that for about a year before they gave him an assignment, on the condition that he could only briefly be in the show, to allow him to focus on the production side.

Data's determination to save his child to this day still really touches my heart. As does Lal's final moments and last words to Data! Jonathan Frakes did a great job directing this episode. It was the first of many Star Trek episodes to be directed by a member of the cast. This was Frakes' directorial debut. The episode was written as a spec script by René Echevarria and was bought by the show. Echevarria did a rewrite which was touched up by staff writers who all did a great job!

this whole episode was to show how traumatic it is to separate a child from their parent and how it ultimately "killed" the child, data did create a better version of himself but one who can't cope will lose

Huge stakes, but not huge. Well said, Alex.

That "YouTube Short" LMAO!!

I have had sleep paralysis once in my life. It was terrifying and I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. Thankfully a one time occurrence.

You mention this only had one plot, that really isn't accurate. It has a connected A and B story. But they mesh so well together that it doesn't feel like there is a disconnect. The Plot is Data learning to be a parent. B Plot is does Data have the right to be a parent.

You mention that it's measure of a man 2. And interestingly enough, Melinda Snodgrass who did a massive restructure and rewrite (before Piller did his pass on it) felt the story wasn't needed. Because it's Measure of a Man 2. Thinking the heart of the issue about Lal and Data having rights, that Starfleet can't override should be covered by Data isn't property and that he should be allowed to discover his own path. She did really like the Lal and Data part of the story just not the rights side of it. But she did her job, and was kind enough to give Rene Echevarria full writing credit. And just a shout out to the writer Melinda Snodgrass (and others like her) who let these new writers get full WGA credit on the episode, especially on ones where they are doing full rewrites, where their work would qualify in the case of this episode and the Bonding for at least shared Teleplay Credit. Her position as Script consulate pays out a weekly fee, but it's not one that earns residuals. And It was very much expected for TNG to have similar success in reruns that TOS did (one of the most profitable reruns in US history). So being being generous she prevented herself from earning money from these episodes for decades of airings in reruns, on home media and international sales. Now Piller has did a lot of work in this episode (head writers are expected to due a final polish on every script, but here he did more heavy work), but having a producers credit means he does already earn residuals base on his weekly pay for every episode. So it's more of a gesture when it's someone who isn't getting residuals. So kudos, a very classy move. Both Moore and Echevarria have brought attention to her gesture and how she made their work look way better then it was. And both have also continued this practice later in their careers.

It's pronounced "Echevarria," jeeeez.

11:14 I think the people were doing double takes because the Android was walking down the hall naked not because it looked weird

Alex, the reason you cry for things that happen on television or in movies but not in real life is you are more empathetic than you are sympathetic or maybe I have that backwards

Re : that corridor set. Give me a pen and paper I can draw you that set. From memory. 😂

I tend to think the stuff about "choosing their own gender" wasn't really a transgender reference since it seems pretty early for mainstream shows to be making a comment about that. '90s TV definitely would be tackling gay issues, but the rest usually wasn't seen. Though an occasional plot about a one-time character having a "sex change" would show up now and then.

I do have to disagree with Alex. As someone who never thought I would want kids, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. And yes, this episode hits harder as a parent. There is no training, you just do your best!

As to why there is a Green Andorian- Different ethnicity? Andorians have looked fairly different in different presentations

The scene where the admiral was describing how fast Data’s hands were moving, the admiral looked like he was fighting back tears. I think once a father saw another father, trying frantically to save his child he understood his error and finally saw them as more than just machines.

What this episode really needed was O’Brien playing the Irish bagpipes to keep you from crying.

27:10 Nah

25:40 Exploitation. Just as the Romulan defector pointed out.

13:55 No explanation on the green Andorian.

This is my FAVORITE EPISODE & here's why I don't care much for it... 😜🖖

I don't know what Trope he was referring to, but this episode was just way too sweet, and she just way too precious. It reminds me of The Waltons or Eight Is Enough, and seems so out of place for Star Trek. Data walks the line but never crosses it (so far), but "father, no one in school likes me"? Really? That's what everyone loves? I guess I'm just on another wavelength. The last few minutes were theoretically touching I guess, but I stopped watching this kind of fare more years ago than I care to mention. I almost feel a montage was needed with the theme from Courtship Of Eddie's Father playing in a slow, mournful piano style. Give me Game Of Thrones and BSG any day over stuff like this.

Batman "Tell me, do you cry?........you will." And yeah, on the surface it does seem odd that after Measure of a Man Picard would seemingly be so opposed to Data creating a child. But yeah, I think he knew it was going to be the same fight all over again, and he's kind of pissed at Data for putting him in that position. Also wonder if Picard's line that "it's a life. It can't be activated and deactivated simply" was meant to be a commentary on abortion? I don't even buy that Data "using starfleet materials" would affect his parental rights. Money per se may not be used in the federation, but it's not like people don't have personal possessions. Replicator rations and such. Anything that couldn't be replicated I'm sure Data legally requisitioned for personal use at which point the parts are his property. Even that aside, if 2 organic people date on a starship, get it on in starfleet quarters, go for checkups/deliver the baby in a starfleet sickbay, and receive all the nutrition throughout the process from starfleet replicators, does that make the baby starfleet property? Obviously not. Edit - regarding my patron take, forgot Lal lived 2 weeks, not 2 days. For the purposes of the joke, same difference.

Stay with you for 30 years.. well we'll have to look back at this then when we are watching Voyager with you.

This episode is a personal favorite. Such a good story about Data and his child. As a secondary thing, I feel it's one of the better uses of Troi up to this point in the series as well. Her feeling the emotion of Lal is understated in a good way, if that makes sense. Well-acted, and the fact that Lal came to her for emotional help is a nice bit of continuity in regard to Troi's role on the ship.

🤣 "So... I'm not either JOHN!" Omg I lost it when you said that, perfect ending🤣

I get what John is saying, though I disagree. There is a sci-fi trope of the character that is born, lives out their life, and dies in the span of an episode and we've seen it already with "The Child." But I think this episode handles it so well that it elevates the formula.

Did the admiral get redemption in the end? I like his monologue about Datas hands.

Great discussion, this is what sets you above the standard react channel.

The lol actress UTTERLY nailed "Afraid" in every way.

My comment from the uncut reaction PART II... "I've never cried on camera before" S3E2? - hold my beer.

Sleep paralysis sucks. I never see anything though. Just hear it, and feel it when it starts trying to pull me off the bed.

My favorite episode doesn't come until Season 5...

39:31 Fellas, man to man, and I mean this... You'd both be great dads. And yes, it is absolutely terrifying and wonderous. The moment your child is born, and mine was a little girl... The instant I saw her my entire perspective shifted. Without her, I am nothing. Any man who walks into fatherhood thinking they're ready or they're going to do great is already on the wrong foot, because a little baby will humble you. I absolutely agree with that Patron Take. I watched Interstellar about a year after it came out and really enjoyed it. I watched it again after my daughter was born and I was emotionally ruined by it. I love that movie so much, but I can't watch it now. That line at the end "Because my dad promised me." It.... Defines the parameters of what it is to be a good father. You have to be patient, and strong, and set the boundaries.,, and be a man of your word. Boys need a good man to show them how to be... Girls need a strong man to show them what to expect. Far be it for me to ever tell anyone what to do with their lives, but I will say this... There is nothing like it. It is scary, but it is beautifully so. It's a gift like no other.

Evil Starfleet admirals are so common that we have a term for it: “Badmirals”

I will gladly take Venmo or Paypal for the dude that wrongly bet £50 Alex would cry first.

My take was one of the negative takes. But after viewing again, I think I look on the episode a little more charitably. But again, the premise that Starfleet has again forgotten the sentience of androids just doesn't do it for me.

I saw this episode when it came out. It totally hits differently rewatching it in my late 40s.

video looks good, they were not joking about the better color.

The Twilight Zone episode is "Number 12 Looks Just Like You".

In the TNG era, alcohol is rare. They drink synthehol - a synthetic alcohol that has the taste but not the deleterious effects.

"For our audience, ask your kids about that"? Ouch, you've got us pegged. Just for the record, no kids, but I am definitely too old for all that Disney Network stuff. EDIT: Ok, I obviously just told on myself. It's Disney Channel, not Disney Network.

The one character i think should have had more screen time is Geordi. Considering he is Data's best friend and an engineer, it would have made sense for him to be more involved in this story. Minor quibble.