UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S3E14 - A Matter of Perspective

you're a dead man, Apgar....A DEAD MAN

yeah, trek has failed when they try to make real world issues that like but use sci-fi metaphors because the SPECIFICS matter so much. I hope this doesn't count as a spoiler, but yoyager had two awful episodes that were also somehow also awful for entirely different reasons, and the sci-fi specifics dont allow the metaphor to work

I won't claim for a moment to be as taken with this episode as Josh, but I don't hate it like some seem to. Seeing the different versions of the events from the various perspectives is certainly an interesting aspect of the episode, so I appreciate in the creative sense, but I don't find the story particularly captivating. It does have some disturbing implications however. Obviously we know Riker would never act the way Manua claimed. For starters between the hundreds of women on the Enterprise D and all those he meets on away missions, Riker is at no shortage of attention from women, many of whom would be younger, more attractive and more available than Manua. And that's before you even consider the very holodeck they were sitting in. Even if she was meaning to assert Riker was just getting his psychopath on for kicks, which once more we know is not who Riker is, the holodeck again would be an outlet for such a fantasy without ending his career and getting thrown in prison. Now I'll grant that it's possible that Riker's account was somewhat sanitized. I get that eyewitness testimony tends to be highly unreliable, especially where crowd mentality is concerned. But regarding the scene in the quarters there are only 2 living witnesses. You can have all sorts of little differences between their accounts and sum those up as imperfect memory. But I just can't buy that Riker's account is that she came on to him, and he wholesale rejected her, and her account is that he locked her in and tried to rape her, and that they both fully believe they're telling the truth. Had Riker's account been that she came on to him and he had a moment of weakness and played along before coming to his senses, while her account was that she had been a little flirty/friendly and he read too much into it and tried to initiate, ok I'd buy they both believe their recollection. But as is their stories are too far apart for them to both believe they're telling the truth. This leaves us with 2 unpleasant implications. 1, that Riker basically got away with attempted rape and is a rather detestable character under the façade we see the rest of the time. 2, it basically implies that women who genuinely believe they were raped, well they really wanted it all along and even invited it, and their memory is just a little fuzzy. There are plenty of cases of women who cried rape and later evidence surfaces completely debunking their story, but I don't think those cases are bad memory, I think they're deliberate lies. I guess possibility #3 is just that Troi's senses are useless. Either way not definitively proving what happened in that room leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The doubt for most of the episode is great, and we get a solid answer on the murder. Krag was fine and just did his job, even if we disagree with a "guilty till proven innocent" system. I'm fine with things being left unresolved in episodes, but not the question of whether or not Riker attempted SA. Had Troi just been away on vacation and it was purely "he said, she said", it would be easy to dismiss her testimony as a clear lie meant to discredit and incriminate Riker once Apgar's plot was discovered. But to say "I looked into her head and she fully believes what she's saying", that makes a mess of the whole thing. There are other stories of this kind in Trek that I think are better executed.

Star Trek TNG does Rashomon. Every episodic show's gotta eventually have their Rashomon episode, I think theirs was well done and memorable.

I have it on good authority that Dr. Apgar is a dead man... A DEAD MAN.

This one isn't even in the top 15 of this season! Just kidding.

Realizing only now that the opening with the painting talks about three different people's interpretation of the same subject. Those "unrelated" opening scenes are never just random events.

I love a good mystery, so I enjoyed this one a lot. Checking the Safety Harnesses as I'm getting ready to strap in for the rest of the season.

I have so much fun with these uncut reactions! It's hard to not get distracted by Hector Salamanca. Great job guys! 👏

I always Joke When Troi is like “That’s how she remembers it.” Riker is like “But, why am I so Rapey?”

i do like how the reaction went from a 'oh no dont introduce a pointless non related b plot to this already excellent episode to 'nicely done lads'

Good stuff. But now. Now it's time for the episode I've been waiting for you to reach. The next one you're going to watch is arguably one of the best of all of TNG, in fact, I'd go so far as to say it's one of my favorites of the entire Star Trek franchise.

Josh and Alex, have either of you seen Vantage Point 2008? Great cast and basically a whole movie of this episode. Dennis Quaid, Matthew Fox, Forest Whitaker, William Hurt and Sigourney Weaver

I loved that you loved this one. An underrated gem.

It is a better episode than I remember. Probably because I'm 40 now and I get how perspectives can be different...different perspective on paintings...and other things

Overall, a great episode. Love, love, love your perspective on it. Such a fun watch! This type of storytelling is called the Rashomon Effect, after the film by Akira Kurosawa. You might enjoy that film.

Star Trek is special because we fans can have a difference of opinion as to what the “best episodes” are or who our favorite characters are, yet at the end of the day we all still very much like Star Trek and had a good time watching the episode.

It's one I've always enjoyed, (because I enjoy a murder mystery/investigation episode myself) but I had no idea how you guys would feel about it. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

For the record, on the IMDb list the highest rated Season 1 episode is Conspiracy. The highest rated Season 2 episode is The Measure of a Man. The highest rated Season 3 episode is...still upcoming.

I’m glad you guys liked it. I am excited for the next two. 🤗

Kinda feel this is underrated - one I’ve always loved and a perfect use of the Holodeck. Oh but the next 3 😏

I've always considered this episode one of the most underrated of the series. No one talks about it as a great episode in the Top 10 lists, but it's one of my favorites from this season. I rewatch this one a lot. It's an excellent use of the holodeck, plus a cool murder mystery, and the radiation bursts coming back to prove Riker's innocence in the end was also top-notch script writing. Plus, I'd love to know some of the technical aspects of those holodeck shots of the actors walking around themselves or others froze. They still look great all these years later, though some are obviously green screen. Overall, it's a well-written and well-executed episode that I can rewatch repeatedly and still enjoy. Is this one of the "six"?

48:17 Yeah, that's hilarious. "A plot???" LOL!

I had a feeling you guys would love how the "random sci-fi plot" was actually related to the A-plot and was part of the conclusion pay-off.

46:50 Your favorite episode of the season!? You've not seen anything. You. will. lose. your. shit!

Finally we agree on an episode!

R.I.P. The great Mark Margolis. He’s up in heaven, looking down on Hector Salamanca ringing his little bell down in hell.

It must really suck to be accused of a crime on that planet…

I actually enjoyed this episode more watching you guys watch it than I do watching it myself!

Fasten your seatbelts boys! You’re at the very top of the roller coaster and the ride is really beginning with episode 15. You’re in for a hell of a ride!

5:05 He has sensors. He knew.

Really good solid episode. A courtroom drama is always welcome

Dudes, I put this episode in the category, "Episodes Worth Seeing Only Once." And there are MANY episodes most of us agree belong in the top tier..... .... episodes that set a new bar. And they're beginning to line up.... .... right now.

This is why I love watching you guys, an episode that I don't really care about is one of your favorites. It gives me new perspective when watching. It's also fun watching people get upset when you don't enjoy their favorites.

I thought you guys would HATE this one. Not one of my faves.

"is a plot device that fiction should not use in relation to sexual consent because of the real-world harm it can do." I vehemently disagree. What about the harm of teaching people to automatically believe all women? Advocating for a rational and evidence-based approach can never cause harm.

Glad you guys enjoyed this one, although I wasn't expecting such an overwhelmingly positive reaction. The way the episode gives you all these separate puzzle pieces only for Picard to fit them all together at the end is really satisfying, and why I enjoy this episode more than not. Also, such a great use of the holodeck. However, I just wish the thread of Riker and Mrs. Apgar was more completely resolved, instead of just glossed over at the end. That seems a bit too dismissive for me, plus I don't like not knowing what really happened there, especially since Troi made a point of saying everyone believed they were telling the truth.

We’re going to court! “A Matter of Perspective” is likely to be Alex and Josh’s favorite TNG episode up to this point in the series, if only because it allows for a constant stream of "Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction" jokes. Also, they mentioned in their reaction to “The Defector” that they love transitions to the empty holodeck, and this episode has the most spectacular one so far. This is the third “Let’s Do” episode in TNG Season 3, following “The Enemy” ("The Defiant Ones") and “The Hunted” ("First Blood"). This time, the episode’s narrative model is Akira Kurosawa’s classic 1950 film "Rashomon," one of a select group of films, along with "Gaslight" and "Groundhog Day," the titles of which have become proverbial expressions for situations like those they depict – to such an extent that the term “gaslighting” is now drifting from its original meaning, which was closer to the scenario in the film. I do not count "Catch-22" in this group, since it was Joseph Heller’s novel, not the film, from which the title entered the English language. [In case Alex and Josh watch "Rashomon," I have deleted an excessive amount of detail about the film that I originally included.] Although Ed Zuckerman is the sole credited writer, this was another episode which underwent an uncredited rewrite by the entire TNG writing staff, which Ronald D. Moore had now joined. The writers named “Krieger Waves” after scientific consultant David Krieger, who had explained to them how the holodeck recreation of Dr. Apgar’s lab could reflect and concentrate the energy without violating the TNG Writers’ and Directors’ Guide’s dictate that a normally functioning holodeck cannot create anything dangerous. The opening scene of Picard and the other two crewmembers painting the same model foreshadows the episode’s main plot and theme of people having different perspectives on the same events. In a bit of deleted footage, Picard defaced his own painting after Data left by throwing red paint on it. There is an ugly, unexamined implication at the heart of this episode’s plot, namely that it is not unusual for a woman to believe an interaction with another person was an attempted sexual assault when it in fact was not. Troi’s explanation that both Riker and Manua are telling the truth as they remember it is thematically useful for the episode, but it is a plot device that fiction should not use in relation to sexual consent because of the real-world harm it can do. The Trivia section of this episode’s IMDb page sententiously informs us, “The plot thread of a woman who's [sic] attempted seduction misfires into false accusations against her intended, with dire consequences, is not a new one. It is a major feature in ʻTo Kill a Mockingbird’, the case of the Scottsboro Boys, and as ancient as Joseph and Potiphar's wife.” I am glad to report that I was the sixth person to downvote this item, which has only one upvote, and I would be willing to bet my physical media collection that a man contributed the item. The fictional case in "To Kill a Mockingbird" and the real-life case of the Scottsboro Boys both involved white American women leveraging their social power over black men in the Jim Crow era. In other words, they occurred in a very specific social and historical context. The vast majority of supposed false accusations of rape made by women against men are, in fact, true accusations which society refuses to believe (and, yes, the Bible story of Potiphar’s wife may have had a negative effect on the thinking of later generations about this issue). A subtlety I did not notice on this rewatch but which the TV Tropes website points out: In the recreations of Riker and Tayna’s depositions, Manua is wearing a pink underdress during her encounter with Riker in the guest quarters. However, in Manua’s own account, in which the encounter is an attempted rape, Manua’s underdress is white. Mark Margolis (Nel Apgar), who passed away last year, was, of course, best known for the role of Hector Salamanca in "Breaking Bad" and "Better Call Saul." He also played Adriano in the first-season "Quantum Leap" episode “Double Identity.” Gina Hecht (Manua Apgar) later played a meter maid (Microsoft Word would prefer “parking enforcement officer”) in the 2002 sci-fi action comedy "Clockstoppers," which, as I mentioned in my comment on “The Price,” must remain shrouded in spoiler protection for now. The casting of Juliana Donald as Tayna may have pleased the TNG staff, since she had played a secretary in the American voice cast of "Dirty Pair: Project Eden;" also, Gates McFadden may have known her from her film debut role as Jenny in "The Muppets Take Manhattan," on which McFadden also worked (although she has no scenes with McFadden in this episode). Michael Piller was extremely happy with this episode’s script but thought the finished episode was disappointing. Piller, who had extensive prior experience on mystery TV shows, called the script “about the best murder mystery I’ve been involved in developing in my career.” Both Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Behr, with ludicrous hyperbole, called “A Matter of Perspective” the worst episode of TNG Season 3; Behr even called it his least favorite of the Star Trek episodes to which he contributed. (I suspect that there are fans who are not fond of “A Matter of Perspective” but would acknowledge its superiority to “The Price,” “The Vengeance Factor,” and possibly some other Season 3 episodes.) Around the time of this episode, composer Ron Jones began to have the impression that TNG’s production team had definitively soured on him and foresaw that he would not last much longer on the show. Finally, it is good that Alex and Josh enjoyed “A Matter of Perspective” so much; the next three episodes are not comparable to it in quality. (Words of the week: “to collimate” = “to make parallel;” “facsimile” = noun meaning “copy, duplicate;” “forthwith” = “very soon.”)

So, they disproved the murder allegation, but completely forgot about the attempted rape allegation.

My barometer for what you’ll like is out of tune. I really thought you’d dislike this one and love Deja Q. Not a criticism, just that you’re latching on to some things and overlooking others that surprise. It’s just a matter of perspective.

I'm curious whether Alex or Josh have seen the 1950 Akira Kurosawa film "Rashomon". If they liked this episode, they might like that too. It pioneered the storytelling device of repeating the same storyline, but shown from the different perspectives of several witnesses to the events.

I'm surprised you liked this one. Pretty sure this is the first time I disagree on wether an episode is good or not. Really looking forward to your responses on the next three!

Am happy you liked this one. I am sooo living for you to see next week's episode. It is absolutely one of my favourites!

Interesting reaction you guys had to this episode. It's by and large considered an average run-of-the-mill story in season 3. Not bad by any means, but nothing great to be honest. Still to each their own.

"nice angle" "whoa great shot" "another interesting bridge angle" A matter of perspective indeed 😎

Well. That's it. The show has peaked. Pack it in guys, it's all downhill from here.

I thought you guys would like this one, with your love of courtroom episodes. But then, I also thought you'd like Deja Q more than this one. Can't wait for next week. They are both great episodes. One of them is the equal third highest rated TNG episode of all time. That is why next week's pair of episodes won that poll you ran at the beginning of the season about which two should be live streamed.

Happy that you guys enjoyed this one. Has me even more curious about your reaction to the next episode. Fun ride so far.

Happy Sunday, much love to everyone ❤️