FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E12 - The High Ground

your discussion on media literacy was astounding. i've felt this same way for a long time, but i've never been able to express it. thank you.

Melinda Snodgrass is really good friends with George RR Martin of Game of Thrones fame. The sci-fi series “The Expanse” is based on a role playing game that Melinda ran with George & the two guys that wrote the Expanse novels under the pen name James S. A. Corey. Pretty cool that whole book and tv series was based on a tabletop game Melinda was running w/George Martin.

To clarify - this wasnt banned in the UK and Ireland because of the broad themes. It was banned because it directly referenced a "Irish Reunification of 2024" as part of ST's history, which at time of transmission (1990) was very recent / ongoing with The Troubles in Northern Ireland - and well before the Good Friday peace agreement was signed. It would be akin to Star Trek describing the "US defeat in Afghanistan of 2021" - back in 2003 when 9/11 was still fresh.

Based on why you like Star Trek - I think you might ABSOLULTELY LOVE The Orville. Starts as a Star Trek Parody show but by Season 2 it becomes a spiritual successor to Trek with more humor and a lot of interpersonal stories. Maybe peek at it :)

"so frank about their methods" he's talking about when Finn explains why he wants the Federation to get involved as part of his strategy for victory. Without referring to sides or morality, this is also the strategy of Hamas as they know they can't win a conventional military struggle against Israel and are hoping international pressure will force the Israelis to make concessions. This is not unique to Hamas, its a common strategy of terrorists.

I've seen this episode at least 50 times and now that I'm 44 I think the head cop chick is smokin. Lol

"does it matter whether its a police transport or a bus full of children?" Yes, it does. One is a legitimate military target, the other is civilian. That's the difference between terrorism and war. States will often call opponents "terrorists" but the "special evil" designation is meant to be for the killing of civilians for political aims. The police forces are fighting against the rebel forces, the fact the conflict is asymmetric as opposed to on a regular battlefield makes no difference

since they could beam up the away team after the attack happened couldnt they just beam up dr crusher with the patients at the same time??

You guys do great work. Don’t dwell on the hate comments.

The chief medical officer on a ship (not the only doctor) can declare a captain not competent and relieve of duty ..but they can't order the captain to do things or over rule them just cause

South Sudan split from Sudan after 98.8% of voters agreed to it in a referendum in 2011. Yeay for progress, because that's the only peaceful example I can think of! You're right, there's usually a war!

I love Beverly Crusher centric episodes, she showed bravery during her helping of the casualties of the bombing and strength during her capture. And on the bridge with Picard giving the leader a right hook then diving on him was great tv. It’s worth noting that when Data studies instances when terrorism has worked, he notes that Ireland was unified in 2024. (Almost mirrors real life as although Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom it is governed by the majority party Sein Fein in the North & South) As a result, this episode was not originally shown by the BBC in the United Kingdom due to the then ongoing conflict in Northern Ireland known as the Troubles. It was not broadcast by RTE in the Republic of Ireland, during the show's run though UK broadcasts were received there. Initial UK airings were edited and shown for the first time in 1992. The episode was broadcast unedited in 2006. I like how it ends on a positive note alluding to possible peace as while terrorism has happened a lot in the our world to further the cause of independence, most of the British Empire declared independence prior to the end of empire. And most recently the United Kingdom left the European Union.

never had a Twitter or TicToc account :-D

I am very impressed by Josh's speech on why he likes Star Trek so much. I feel the same way - I desperately need ongoing creative input - that doesn't mean I always need something "new" or something particularly " diverting". It just has to be an interesting story and as credible as possible within the respective universe. And Star Trek offers me that. The fantasy sci-fi background in particular means that the wildest stories can be told here. - And I love the technobabble - I don't know if it's because I come from an IT background, but I usually understand exactly what they're talking about (i.e. in meaning, not in scientific detail) ;-)

Star Trek's focus was examining the human condition with sci-fi as the backdrop. That makes it so different from Star Wars, as that is a straightforward sci-fi opera. My favorite thing about Star Trek is how it offers something for everyone. As a kid, it was all about the spaceships, battles, and cool sci-fi. Now that I'm almost 40, I love the character stuff because I relate to that more through my life experiences. I still love the cool ships and sci-fi stuff, but golden age Star Trek never forgot the characters in all the sci-fi stuff. You'll see more examples of this as the show continues. My favorite sci-fi examines how people react to all of the crazy stuff happening around them. It can be therapeutic at times, like in the bonding.

BTW, Melinda Snodgrass wrote "Up the Long Ladder." Sorry to remind you.

I also thought the Rutian plaza might have been a real location (a shopping mall?). Believe it or not, it was actually the Enterprise shuttlebay redressed!

Most if not all of us are all drawn to Star Trek because of the characters I think. Star Trek is a lot of different things to different people and that’s cool but for me, it’s people in space - humans in space. Starships are cool too. As a kid I was a little disappointed when the episodes focused solely on the characters and got a little too obsessed with the FX stuff but both go hand in hand. The great Star Trek episodes/movies have a mixture of both 🖖

Star Trek's strong point has always been its three dimensional characters. Going all the way back to the beginning at a time when Trek was in a sea of TV shows full of two dimensional characters who could never deviate from their formulaic construction. Star Trek was different. Imagine Matt Dillan and Doc Adams on Gunsmoke having a conversation like the one between Kirk and McCoy in Kirk's quarters in "Balance of Terror." Forget it. Gene Roddenberry's vision for the show was always as a strong character drama against the background of Science Fiction. That's why the show, along with its younger siblings, stand out and hold up so well after all these years and continue to play in syndication all over the world.

Josh doesn't like war movies or period pieces. I now regret my vote for watching Master and Commander. Oh well, given that Josh also likes horror movies and I have no interest in them at all just shows that Star Trek can bring different people together! :)

What you've described about issues of today being portrayed in a futuristic sci-fi setting was exactly what Gene Roddenberry set out to do when he first conceived Star Trek. I guess he accomplished his goal.

There was a distinct lack of dick and fart jokes in this discussion of a serious issue. I'm torn between saying "Well done" and "DISSAPPOINTED...!!!"

Wait! The guest star’s name is Richard Cox and not one comment?!!

After giving this more thought the problem I have with this is there is no “Trek” resolution. The Federation are observers and at the end they are still observers. Nothing gets resolved. Get Dr. Crusher and let’s leave these people to kill each other!

That America edit went unreasonably hard. Also, the episode was banned SPECIFICALLY due to the line about Irish unification, as this was still during the Troubles.

Some days, Star Trek is a good sci-fi show. Other days, Star Trek is a good show with a sci-fi setting.

I like all the Ships & Lasers, but hey I'm with you Star Trek's strengths is the Drama & the Moral dilemmas

Star Trek was always about using a sci-fi veneer to describe real-world issues. You are part of a long and honored lineage.

As usual, a very deep and thought-provoking discussion. Great job guys! I've read that the creators of this episode were dissapointed that it didn't quite land the way they wanted. Now you can say that you've seen the most controversial episode in TNG.

Its a good thing Worf had that Plot Armor on. The terrorist shoot to kill everyone - except the head of security - he just gets shot in the leg.

29:20 Put your arms up (albows above your shoulder) and cough.

25:05 Achieving disgust and sympathy for the terrorist is a testament to good or clever writing. But some of the things the characters in this story say or believe are pretty ridiculous.

24:00 "Dammit, Jean Luc, I'm a doctor, not a coward!!"

19:45 That's a very reasonable response! Don't worry about not crying. You guys are totally gonna lose your shit, very soon.

You're probably safe.

14:10 I agree. Fictional things like Star Trek are more whimsical. Real stuff that happened (e.g. war movies, wars that happened) are somber and serious. Speaking to Josh, I could see (I WAS watching you guys! LOL) that some of the things happening hit you in the feels. War movies are just a string of those types of things.

12:55 The word you want is "preachy" ... it doesn't always respect its audience, there's a very fine line between "poignant story about current events" and preaching (...a social or political agenda).

Only thing I have to say is watch for Ireland this year 8)

Great balanced and gracious analysis of the episode. I feel pretty much the same way about the episode. Unfortunately it is a timeless episode because humans haven't seemed to figure out how to not repeat history. You guys are getting sooooo close to some great episodes to come. Your patience will be rewarded.

I figured they didn't use the transporter because they had no idea where they were, until Wes was able to pinpoint their power source. Their exact location was shielded. Once Finn transported to the ship and talked to Troi, Wes got the power source location and were able to use transporters to send in the team

First Lol