PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG - Season 3 Episode 12

Given how little you like the last episode, which I enjoyed, I think you might not like this one. It's definitely very message heavy. On the other hand, the guest actor here is great, and it is a Crusher episode, so you might. A lot of people here are saying "heavy handed" but for me that sort of thing works, especially given the deadly seriousness of the subject. The lack of a real resolution to the conflict other then Beverly's rescue and the one boy choosing not to kill and perpetuate the cycle was a great touch. It's also interesting this situation has evolved without apparent religious or ethnic conflict as a motivator, but in a high tech secular society. Indeed, while the nominal cause of the terrorists is "independence" for their area which was apparently conquered long ago, it doesn't seem like there is actually a clear thing they are fighting for, they have just been fighting so long for the "cause" they don't know what else to do. Yes, there is an objective, but they don't really even bring the objective up that much so much as the struggle, which seems to mirror many of these real world situations.

I sort of like this one. It has personal resonance (in a Balkan context rather than the more common Irish one), and in quite a few ways it's a sign of things to come for star trek. The Federation aren't exactly heroic in this one, helping a state continue a conflict against both its people and its enemies - enemies whose peaceful options have been taken from them. All they had left is violence. And had their independence just been allowed, they probably would have left well alone. Has some stark parallels to conflicts going on right now. I think this is far from being Trek's best terrorism episode. The best is yet to come. On the production side, apparently the people involved in making this episode didn't like how it turned out at all. they felt it "didn't have a message". Now I love a ham-fisted message as much as the next pinko, but isn't that moral ambiguity exactly why the episode succeeds? The creators making great Trek while seemingly not getting it at all will be a theme for the next decade or so.

My memories of this one is largely not being able to watch it until a few years later. Others are likely to have explained why the BBC banned this episode so we originally got a 25 episode season. Sky eventually aired it but cut out the offending lines. I had to get my uncle to record it for me as we didn’t have sky and was excited as this was a “banned episode” I remember always being slightly disappointed as I had built it up in my head to be this ultra controversial and violent episode (hey I was only 12). But looking back some great Crusher scenes, the action is effective and the score is great. Just feel it’s a bit muddled in its messaging. Definitely a solid episode tho and I’m a sucker for Picard/Crusher scenes.

The elephant in the room for me was how cozy the Enterprise crew was getting with the Rutia government. I get that they were trying to rescue an crew member but, it kind of undermines the whole Picard willing to take an arrow in the heart to defend the Prime Directive in Who Watches the Watchers. I felt the Enterprise crew were handing out way too much information which was puzzling given how effectively they used the Prime Directive in the previous episode.

Is this supposed to be for episode 13 if not why are there two for episode 12? If I'm dumb just let me know how.

You're going to be suckers for this episode simply because it's got a lot of Crusher going on, and we know how much you guys are revved for the Bev. There's some really great writing to unpack here: The idea that a freedom fighter is just a regular person who believes their cause is just, and that justice is simply a matter of perspective... in this case, Beverly's.

An 'OK' episode elevated by another solid Ron Jones score. Which I'm sure will mean Alex and Josh will notice it "has a score"

Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson would argue on the set of The Phantom Menace about who had the better Star Trek VHS collection. When Ewan learned this episode was never released in Ireland, he said “It’s over, Liam. I have The High Ground.”

Because of Data's Irish Unification comment - this episode was banned in the UK and wasn't shown fully until around 2006 (about 15 years after the original airdate!). I will admit this is a mid-tier episode but it's one I find myself returning to more often than not. The character of Finn is well played and rather than being a mustache-twirling villan his sympathetic portrayal subconciously makes you consider his point-of-view in what is a quite serious/dark episode. The attack on the enterprise is a great action set-piece and one of the few times where the threat actually feels credible... plus Picard gets to throw a punch! Sparkly space suspenders aside - I think you'll like this episode but not love it.

For me...this is lower level for season 3....there are worse episodes in season 3, but not too many.

Yay! We finally get a Doctor Beverly episode! But man, the message in this one is about as subtle as a steel chair upside the head. Still, I think it does a great job of addressing the issue of terrorism from more than one point of view AND doesn't wrap it up in neat bow after 45 minutes. This was made at a time when it wasn't a common plot or element in a lot of shows and movies. I think you will be kind of frustrated with this one, but won't think it's bad.

I guess we have to remember that an episode that might seem ham-fisted to older audience members (at the time) would also be younger viewers' first or earlier exposure to a terrorism story/moral. So, a sort of 'Sesame Street' message about turning away from the established mindset.

The low point of the season for me. The Defector saves the middle of the season.

So, short review... I find the episode interesting. It shows how terrorism affects a society upon which it's perpetrated. In this day and age, it can provoke some discussions, that could get quite heated; I'm avoiding the politics on this one. A fun fact: Wil Wheaton disliked Wesley Crusher's character. He saw hims as a bit of a Marty Sue, wunderkind who was always smarter and better than everyone else around. (Rodenberry's middle name was Wesley, and Crusher was arguably his self-insert into the series.) Another fact: Terrorism perpetrated against civilian targets has never been successful. (At least, this was true when I studied it back in High School, but that was 20 years ago.) Only when the terrorists have limited themselves to military targets has terrorism succeeded in creating lasting political or societal change.

Probably the most controversial episode of TNG. I think the writing staff unfairly maligned it for a lack of message - sometimes the characters finding out that a problem's too big to be solved in 45 minutes is a message in of itself. If nothing else, it was a better Snodgrass Irish allegory episode than Up The Long Ladder.

I love this episode. It was a blatant Irish ‘Troubles’ episode but I loved the nuance in it. Gates was great in this, Finn, the terrorist, was both creepy and sympathetic and the end with the child has always stuck with me. It’s so surreal that it’s only been since ‘98 for the Peace Accords and Brexit has arguably weakened the Accords since originally it was made between two European Union countries. The ‘Troubles’ could have restarted in our time.

I like having a Beverly focused episode, but the dialogue is so heavy handed it’s hard to take. The cop character (can’t remember her name) is basically for exposition and dramatic commentary on terrorism. If it weren’t for Gates this would be a miss.

People usually think they are the hero of the story when in fact they're the most vile people you would ever meet this episode is very much an example of that.

A lot of comments for this episode will rightly mention the unusual POV, and how Data citing terrorism as effective -- specifically in terms of Irish unification -- got it banned in the UK for years. It also makes an interesting capstone to a block of episodes, beginning with "The Vengeance Factor" that address factional conflict. It's unclear how much of a direct commentary was intended, but here's some of what was happening in the world Nov 89 - Jan 90, when these episodes originally aired: - The Berlin Wall came down. - The Irish Troubles were in full swing. - Revolutions and military crack downs took place in many eastern European countries, including Romania and Czechoslovakia. - The US invaded Panama & deposed the government of Nicaragua. And that's just a sampling. It was an incredibly tumultuous and transformative time.

Blink and you miss it, but that guy's drawing of Beverly looks suspiciously like her season 1 promotional photo - updated for her season 3 hair.

Curtain call for Melinda Snodgrass. This was her final Trek writing credit. She worked well with Maurice Hurley during season 2, but not with Michael Piller. She left at the end of the season and Ronald Moore took over as executive script supervisor.

This episode is cemented as a 90's episode. No WAY anything made today would take a largely sympathetic view towards terrorists and discuss their methods so frankly.

This is actually my least favorite episode of the entire season, and the most forgettable in my opinion. It's in the same tier as The Vengeance Factor. It's the one episode this season that upon re-watching, I remembered absolutely nothing about it except for the infamous "Irish unification of 2024" line. I'm guessing you two might like it more than me though since it focuses on Beverly.

A pretty decent but unremarkable episode. However, I do quite like the cafe set at the beginning, because we rarely get a glimpse of the worlds and civilizations that the Enterprise visits.

I read that this episode was criticized by the writing staff as feeling like a season 2 episode. (Upon rewatch, I can see their point). That puts Riker’s “I don’t want to be in the transporter room to greet her” line in a new light, if you imagine it was Pulaski who would be beaming up angry!

Ah, the first Beverly focused episode. A outstanding episode mostly for her, though it's also very forgettable. In fact, when I saw the Patron Takes for the episode come up, and I looked at the episode title in my personal list, I thought "Which episode is this?" And I had to play a little bit to remind myself. But it's Beverly, so it gets a high grade, anyway. It will be interesting to see what you think.

Right after the opening credits, Riker says "Why would they want to take * A Federation* hostage?" I believe he should have said "Doctor" or "officer" after Federation but didn't and I have never been able to unhear it sounding like the whole Federation was being held hostage in 30 years. Edit: To clarify this point since I'm ruffling feathers. It sounded like Federation was being used as a noun instead of an adjective. You aren't a hostage yet until after you're taken. The act of "taking a hostage" and taking someone who already is a hostage can be two separate things. So it never would register in my brain that Federation was being used as an adjective instead of a noun in that way. In the context of the replies I got, I thought everyone else was could potentially hear what I was hearing. But my bad. You can't spell Lore without taking the L.

The Irish unification of 2024… not yet. This episode was “banned by the BBC”. At least it was skipped when they were showing these episodes in the early evening… I always thought because of the implication by Data that the IRA would win in the end.

If you thought Who Watches the Watchers was controversial addressing religion, you can bet the terrorism episode raised QUITE the stir back then. It didn't air in the UK until 2007 and has never aired in Ireland due to the line about terrorism working to unify Ireland.