FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E10 - The Defector

Tomalak, not Tamalak The appearance of the Klingon ships is important. Part of the romulans game is to only fight the Federation without the Klingons fighting as well. We've seen there are some Klingons who are not fans of the alliance with the Federation, so these games of "you crossed into the zone first" are likely so the Klingons will have a reason not to honor their alliance. Also, in terms of brinkmanship, I don't think it's that the Romulan necessarily want a war, but they know the Federation doesn't either, so if they captured the Enterprise on the pretense they entered the zone, they're thinking starfleet wont engage in a war. Same as with the previous romulan episode, the romulans in federation space were obviously there to set up a listening post inside federation space. I don't think Tomalak was really going to go to war over a dead romulan on the federations's side of the neutral zone. But the federation can't be sure, so its more likely they wee hoping to gain concessions from the federation to keep the peace. Its why Picard has to make a big deal of them crossing into federation space or entering the neutral zone. If he didn't, the Romulans would take it as a sign of weakness (Balance of Terror) as Spock explained, and they'd start crossing the neutral zone all the time once they saw the Federation didn't have the backbone to enforce the treaty of Algeron. It's a complex multipolar game with them, and you never know what their real motivations are. Add to that the Romulans are not entirely unified, some may want war, others may not. And keep in mind the Federation is still weak from the Gillworm invasion (Conspiracy) with ships decommisioned and such. Heck, even the galaxy class itself seems like its a product of the gillworms influence. Starfleet spent years developing a giant cruiser with mission creep they put children on. How many times do we see the computer core has to be replaced, the warp core be replaced, there are various flaws, etc. The romulans are almost certainly aware of what happened with the gillworms given how good their intelligence network is, and there are surely some who are saying strike now before starfleet has fully recovered. We see how undermanned starfleet is and how few ships ever seem to be available. If it wasn't for the Klingon alliance, the Romulans probably would have already invaded, hence the huge significance of the K'vorts decloaking.

I'm counting 8 episodes in season 3 I prefer to this one, which is excellent. The second half of season 3 is stacked with great episodes. I think its the start of peak TNG which continues for all of seasons 4 to 6 and most of season 7 - which I see at a similar level to season 3. Lots to enjoy, there's a reason why the show got its biggest ratings during TNG.

Don't feel bad about not knowing some of the older cultural references. A lot of what I know about those things comes from the fact I saw it on Star Trek first then researched it.

Gosh I'm old. I just noticed this episode aired on my 30th birthday.

My favorite thing about Tomalak is how much joy he takes in lying to people who know he is lying. He's got that shit-eating grin on his face that says, "this is the line I'm using to politically justify my actions and we both know it's bullshit but what are you going to do about it?" What a fun antagonist.

If you guys watch Scrubs or have ever watched scrubs you will come to love dr. Stubbs 😂

While I like this episode I don’t think I like it as much as them it starts to get a little slow in the third act?? The stakes seem inflated?? They’re either going to attack or not, but if the enterprise goes in first they will anyways? But they don’t go to war because they’d all die except didn’t they want war?? 🤷‍♂️🤣

I was hoping you'd read mine last, and you did! Thanks, guys, you made my day!

Small correction boys. Riker says a Romulan curse word, veruul, not a klingon one.

I had already thought about the fact that the Klingons didn't attack blindly. I imagine that Picard made it clear to the Klingons that there might be a glorious battle, but that the Federation would rather see the Romulans crawl back into hiding with their tails between their legs - because the Romluans would then have to live with this dishonorable humiliation.

The title is "The Defecator" (mind - I'm still translating wirth deepl.com)

Colm Meaney was in and out of the show because by this point he had built a successful acting career. Around this time he had roles in Die Hard 2 and The Committments for example plus guest spots on other networked TV shows. Don’t look this up it’ll spoil future episodes.

Don't know if anyone has made this point yet, but.....gulp....'Red October' is about an enemy officer defecting to stop an increased risk of war due to a strategic advantage which they have to betray. I realise the TNG script is more concentrated and the Enterprise crew interact more with the Romulan than Raimius and the Americans, but it is still the same concept. Is Raimius trustworthy?

The guys might not be aware of it, but Patrick Stewart is a Shakespearean actor, having been a member of the Royal Shakespeare Company from 1966 through 1982. It's what got him into acting, and it's what led to his breakthrough into Hollywood. When he was cast on TNG, the LA Times called him an "unknown British Shakespearean actor", and during the first season, the cast pranked him by replacing his name with that on his dressing room.

Ron Jones is absolutely fired.

I love this episode, but, in line with the last patron take, I can think of five season 3 episodes we haven't gotten to yet that I'd rank above it.

Sir Patrick spent most of his pre-Trek career acting in Shakespeare plays. It would have seemed obvious to everybody working on the show that he should be in the performance of Henry V. Also, he is from Yorkshire, in northern England, so the accent he was using in the play is pretty much the one he grew up speaking.

I love your reactions and the discussions, I've started watching these again synced up with the show, and there are quite a few really good episodes this season I can't wait to see how you like the rest of it.

By the way, yesterday May 18th was Andreas Katsulas's birthday. He would have been 78. He was SO good in these episodes!!

I like what you said and to paraphrase... "If you don't like this episode, then you don't like Star Trek."

This is one of those episodes where we see someone come out of the bridge restroom! No comments on that guys?!?! What gives?!?! ;)

When I first saw this as a kid, I was sooo pissed at the twist. Definitely made the Romulans Evil Villains in this one. And as I grew older I appreciated it more and more.

17:34 Fun bit of tech trivia. Dr. Crusher is not scanning him. She is using what is called a "dermal regenerator." It excites/increases cellular activity at the site of the wound to accelerate healing. With Romulans this process is even faster because as we know from Spock, Vulcanians are a tough breed. So, in the future, if you cut or scrape yourself, you can go into the bathroom and use a Dermal regenerator to fix it. No more bandaids.

30:20 That was a sublime comment!

23:20! Definitely! Always best to discuss while it's all fresh in your minds.

19:40 That's a really important, and underrated, scene.

Ayy, my take made it. If it was going to for any episode, I'm glad it's this one. While this is my personal favourite of TNG, I'm by no means saying "it's all downhill from here". There are many episodes yet to come that are on par with the quality of The Defector, and they all have their own unique strengths. It's just the characters and the content of this story appeal more to me personally.

15:32 The twist at the end isn't obvious. There are hints, but it's still up to the viewer to put a few things together. As handy as it is to read the captioning, it's not the same as hearing the actors deliver the lines. Inflection, cadence, tone, it's why we're watching a TV show instead of reading a novel.

From Wikipedia: In addition to his regular role of Captain Picard, Patrick Stewart also played the role of the holodeck character of "Michael Williams" from Shakespeare's Henry V, Act 4, Scene I, in the opening scenes of the episode. Stewart, who performed the role under heavy prosthetic makeup, requested this out of his love for Shakespeare—Stewart is a member of the Royal Shakespeare Company. Stewart uses a regional English accent from the Black Country, an area between Birmingham and Wolverhampton; his version is of the strong 'Gornal' variety of Black Country dialect.

That last comment they read danced along the neutral zone, but I like it.

Early non-specific prediction, that in some of these great ones coming, you guys may even get emotional over them. Alex definitely (based on past reactions), but maybe even Josh.

Borrowed from memory-alpha.fandom.com - Patrick Stewart, with heavy make-up and accent, plays the Shakespearean character of Michael Williams in the episode's opening scenes, which pay homage to the recently released 1989 film version of Henry V. That film was directed by and starred Kenneth Branagh, whose performance is cited by Data as one of the inspirations for his own. Stewart appeared in Hamlet, Prince of Denmark (1980) with Derek Jacobi, who appeared in Branagh's Henry V. Incidentally, Picard quotes Williams later in the episode when he says "Now if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it."

I think it was Ron Jones with another great score. His 8-note Romulan theme is awesome. Jones is just the man. Fantastic episode! Oh, and by the way…Beverly takes a shot at Worf for letting the Romulan in “The Enemy” die. That was a “oh shit” moment!

The teaser originally involved Data as Sherlock Holmes but had to be replaced for legal reasons. Patrick Stewart suggested Henry V as an alternative when approached by Michael Piller, two days before filming. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion (2nd ed., p. 110))

Looking ahead, you have got a great run of solid, and even great, episodes on the way.

Ha... very nice stealth shot at The Hunt for Red October again!

Looking at the list from this season, I think ranking this anywhere between fifth and eighth would be pretty normal. IMDB has it fifth, but I see at least two episodes to come with a lower ranking that will have Alex and Josh going all Remmick's head.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You guys deciding to watch Star Trek in release order is genius. I am here for it !

If you ever worry about the show maybe starting to peak, according to IMDb rankings, you've only watched 7 of the top 20 so far, and only 16 of the top 50!

"My daughter will grow up thinking me a traitor. But she WILL grow up."

I can't tell you if you'll consider future episodes better than this. But I know for a fact of the pops coming, my guys. The pops.

From here until the end of the season, it’s almost a perfect line going up, with one good episode after another.

The end of season ranking video is gonna be fun. Don't feel obligated to put episodes in C or D tier because the top is so heavily loaded 😅

Damn right, Anthony. I might place this 8th or even 9th in the season, and the extra 2 haven't come yet either.

Agree with there being AT LEAST 6 more episodes that are equal or better than this.

I have to say I really really appreciate the new system with the episode discussion coming right after the watch, I think that's the perfect way to go.

According to Memory Alpha, Data was originally going to be Sherlock Holmes in the opening, and that's when they found out Holmes is not in the public domain. It was Patrick Stewart who suggested Henry V instead.

and It's Tomolak, not Talamok

I don't know if you'll like the next 2 episodes as much as this one, but in my opinion they are still really good episodes.

You talked about the score; did you notice that when the Kligons decloaked at the end, it was the Klingon theme from the Kirk-era films?

Henry V is one of Shakespeare’s more popular history plays. Look up the St. Crispin’s Day speech. It’s where we get the phrase “Band of Brothers.” … “This story shall the good man teach his son; And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be rememberèd— We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.”

I am pretty sure Ronald D. Moore goes by Ronald professionally but among cast and crew he's just Ron. I'm sure the TA will correct me if I'm wrong.

8:00 This episode has cut content. The interrogation went much longer and had to be trimmed down for time. That's probably why Troi's presence feels abrupt.

I think this is the first time subspace communication is used like this and in a useful way. By setting up hours of delay for response, Picard has a difficult choice to make and has to use his own judgment because every minute counts.

Yes, the Romulans are master manipulators. Their whole society is based on subterfuge and stabbing each other in the back to climb the ladder. Not unlike the Romans of the 1st century A.D. they are patterned after. Master politicians in the worst way.

When you think you're doing the right thing and it all backfires such a sad story.