UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S2E9 - The Measure of a Man EXTENDED EDITION
Which new scene makes Alex jump from his chair? Find out in our UNCUT REACTION to the EXTENDED EDITION of The Measure of a Man
This version of the episode is available on the blu-ray box set, which is how we are watching the show. It's also streaming on the Internet Archive - https://archive.org/details/star-trek-tng-the-measure-of-a-man-extended
Comments (56)
There's a few things I like here, but overall I prefer the original cut. It was nice seeing the extra scene talking about Picard and Nakamura having served together, but I dislike the scene in the conference room. Nakamura comes across as one of the more inoffensive admirals, and in the original he came across as more or less just forwarding Maddox's request to Picard without too much thought, whereas now he basically tells him "get over it". The fencing scene I agree with a lot of comments here needed to go. No helmets was pretty dangerous, but aside from that it makes them both seem more interested in winning the case than Data's fate. Riker is supposed to be a reluctant participant, but here it looks like he's seeking clout from the whole thing. While it does segue better into Data's argument about replacing human eyes with prosthetics, I also don't like Picard being like "cmoooonnnn, just go through with it, starfleet needs this". Riker and Troi discussing their doubts that Data is actually sentient is also at odds with Riker saying he can't prove Data is just a machine because he doesn't believe it himself. The scene with Geordi in engineering wasn't bad. It wasn't perfect, but I like it's inclusion just on account of their friendship. Similarly I like how Worf and Riker stand up for Data in 10 Forward. So yeah, there's a couple scenes I wouldn't mind incorporating into the broadcast cut, there's a lot of stuff here I DON'T want to see every time. I don't mind this version of the court scene, though I'm not the biggest fan of Data calling Riker "Will"(just isn't him). I think the broadcast version did a great job making those scene just the right length to where they didn't drag. So if I had to choose, I'm going with the official version. Still, this was a cool little extra.
Since I had the blu ray in, I also watched the assembly cut. It's like the extended edition as far as I can tell but it may have alternate takes and switches between a VHS and restored film. The interesting thing is, it's all raw set audio, no added sound effects or music. The captain's log is temp tracked by someone else. You can hear a stage hand saying lines characters are supposed to hear on the com badge, and there are no effects. It's weird to hear them talk on the bridge with no background ship hum and how the you can hear the sliding of the actual turbo lift doors instead of the sound effect (which is actually the sound of a piece of paper being pulled out of a Manila envelope).
Just a note, the extra runtime isn't just the extended scenes, there's also a bunch of shots that just run a bit longer, or have bits of extra dialog (sometimes even in the middle of sentences) that had been cut out to save time. I didn't do a side-by-side but also feels like the pacing was just a bit more relaxed, like they cut out a ton of little tiny slices to make the cuts faster in the version that aired.
Can the extended be streamed anywhere?
There’s a link in the post.
I've seen the episode 25-30 times and the three extended versions combined about 8 times and I still got teary-eyes at the last scene.
Orginal series, Dr. Daystrom is the black scientist who makes the intelligent but ultimately kinda evil computer. The most elite institute/research/university?for star trek cybernetic and AI (also warp engines, so i guess anything sciencie) is named after him.
I've seen this episode god knows how many times.. at least 20. Never knew about this extended edition and it was an absolute blast to watch it with you guys.
I'm fairly sure that Data's conversation with Picard (Geordi's VISOR) was extended
Yes, just before mentioning the visor.
I thought it was hilarious how Alex and Josh said they would talk more during this reaction than usual, and then talked less than in any other reaction I've seen from them (although I've only been watching the uncuts since Voyage Home).
I'm still not sure what Pulaski said or was advising Data to consider doing. The one part they DID talk over, and rewinding it later I still can't make out for sure what she said. Groundside living? And I cannot find a transcript of this version of the episode to help me out. 🙄
I go back and forth on which version I prefer. The tighter pacing and punchiness of the aired version just whallops you with how great an episode it is, packed into a 45 minute runtime. It's a heck of an experience that almost blows you away, and has been the standard for 30 years. And yet the extended version adds so much more depth to the characters. There are a number of scene extensions I could cut, but the two I'd definitely leave was the Scene with Geordie and the pipe (though I see why they cut it when they have a scene later at the party) and the full farewell gathering. Worf stepping up to kick that snivelly pricks ass only for Riker to ease him back was gold. I think I lean more towards the aired version just because it was the definitive cut for so long, and isn't inherently flawed, unlike, say TMPs Director's Cut. This is unusual for me as I do tend to prefer extended cuts. The closest I can think is the first extended cut episode the new BSG has. The aired version is a breakneck whirlwind that just sweeps you away, while that extended cut has more character beats and context. And yet, despite that similarity, I prefer the extended cut there. I dunno, it's a strange distinction based solely on feeling and I can't explain it really. As for how the extended episode exists, I believe this was Snodgrass's first ecer television script. As such, once they had the rough cut edited before paring it down for time, they sent her a VHS copy. When they did the BluRay remasters, she found it and offered it to the team to remaster it as well.
I prefer the aired version. "Brevity is the soul of wit." While it's interesting to see the longer scenes, most don't add anything. A few take away from it, either weird characterization (Data's Lore-like grin when he says "star pupil") or blabbery language (extended Data/Riker at the end). The scene with Data and Geordi in engineering is unique in that it's kind-of touching, yet tries to be overly dramatic in a weird way.
If they added more flashbacks Shades of Gray could have been a whopping 90 minutes, or even more.
In fact, the Revised Final Draft script of "Shades of Gray" includes flashbacks from "Where Silence Has Lease," "Hide and Q," "The Arsenal of Freedom" and "Contagion," as well as the sequence of Tasha's death continuing all the way through Dr. Beverly's failed attempts to revive her in Sickbay, none of which appears in the finished episode. (Q himself did not appear in the planned "Hide and Q" flashback, however -- it was the scene of Riker refraining from bringing the little girl back to life.)
This is such a treat! Thank you for the link. 🖖
I had no idea this extended version existed, and having seen the episode for the first time when I was 4 years old, it just blows me away that I essentially got to see "New" TNG decades later! Very cool.
For the first time, I noticed someone dressed as an Antigan in the background (one of the aliens from Lonely Among Us).
yeah, powerful episode. really really great. I also think the extended version is superior and am glad we were already asked for our top 5s because coming hot off this extended version would've probably changed some rankings. I want to briefly say something about the quality of seasons 3-7 since you guys were talking about expectations and how this might stack up as compared to the "golden age" of TNG we're about to enter going forward. As we get ready to start season 3 and people tell you daily how amazing the rest of the series is (and it is imo) I just want to add a bit of context by saying, what lies ahead isn't necessarily "better" than the bangers we've gotten thus far... it's just that the top tier, excellent episodes come more consistently with fewer and smaller dips in quality between them, that's all. I just don't want you guys to go in there and be disappointed thinking, "where's the episodes that are better than MoaM, or Matter of Honor, or etc etc" I know others have expressed this to you as well, just wanted to echo that advice for the sake of expectations. thanks for doing the extended version, made for a good little sunday watch
While this is a fantastic episode, to me it's not the best. Some of "the best" is coming in S3. I am really, really excited for the guys! I can't hardly wait to watch them laugh, cry, and fall out of their seats.
The scene in 10-Forward between Guinan & Picard where the topic of slavery is brought up is 1 of my all-time favorites, along with Patrick Stewart making the most of the final courtroom scene. Picard: "You're talking about slavery." Beat Guinan: "Oh, I think that's a little harsh." What adds another layer to that scene is you have Picard, a white man, coming to the realization of slavery with Whoopi Goldberg, whose character clearly knows what she was getting at without saying it - she led Picard to that realization. Such great stuff.
holy she-eye-te . I never saw this version ever. Have seen this episodes, I can not even think how, many times. There was a bunch of extra lines and jeez. Okay revise my list. This is now my fav of season 2 and it it raised on my all time TNG and all trek list. Thanks mates great one except I had to wet my t-shirt but in no way was that from my eyes
I always thought it was interesting that when Picard is questioning Maddox and mentions androids becoming a race it looks like Maddox has a light bulb moment. He seems to realize just what it was he was trying to do. Other than one little outburst all the fight goes out of him and he seems happy when Data wins.
I had never seen that before! Awesome stuff. The scene with the pipe was my favorite.
Mine, too
While it is interesting to see a longer episode it is at the end of the day just a remastered rough cut and it shows. There are too many pointless scenes, other scenes go on too long, it's a messy version of the episode and I prefer the aired episode a lot.
Loved the video guys! I hadn't seen the extended edition before and really enjoyed it! Just also wanted to add I really appreciate how much you've stepped up the whole production of your videos with the discussion videos, green screen, set up, editing etc. Very different to how it was when I first started watching your videos in the early part of TOS Season 1. Your hard work into constantly improving your channel has not gone unnoticed! 👏
Thank you Elizabeth that is very appreciated
Pretty impressive they were able to cut out 12 minutes (20% of the full cut) and still be left with an incredible episode. You can see why good editors are worth their weight in gold.
That's normal, they always film more than they need, make a too long rough cut and then trim it down.
36:50 Remember "Let us kill all the lawyers" is the reason for that structure of that court scene in "Encounter at Farpoint." By that point in our future, lawyers had been dispensed with. The accused were presumed guilty, brought in, and convicted.
The quote is from "Henry VI, Part 2," Act IV, Scene 2. Ironically, many scholars believe the Henry VI plays were collaborative works, meaning Shakespeare may not have written the line himself (although it's generally acknowledged that he wrote more of Parts 2 and 3 than Part 1).
That swordfight scene was terrible!! I'm glad they cut it.
Yes! That's just one major flaw with it.
Episode writer Melinda M. Snodgrass holds a law degree from the University of New Mexico School of Law so it’s fitting that she wrote one of the best courtroom Star Trek episodes of all time. This was the first episode with a poker scene, however, Ms. Snodgrass’s original script had Data’s shipmates trying to teach him how to swim. Data would have researched heavily how to swim, but when it came time to actually swim, he wouldn’t be able to do it. Due to the expense of filming at an actual pool and figuring out how to make Brent Spiner‘s make up waterproof. the scene was changed to Data learning about poker. Melinda Snodgrass also had the only known copy of this extended version in her possession on a VHS tape. She loaned it to the team doing the TNG HD remaster to use as a blueprint to recreate it using the original film elements stored in the Paramount film vaults.
That's why there are no other extended versions of Star Trek TV episodes. Even though many deleted scenes, even from TOS, still exist, usually there is no blueprint to use for a longer version of the entire episode. "Measure" is the one glorious exception.
Skinny pop is good stuff! 😀
01:01:40 This episode—its spirit—is top-tier TNG. But the episode has flaws. The "slavery" perspective is one of those flaws. "Slavery" would apply only if data were a sentient, intelligent being. The whole point of the hearing is to determine IF data is a sentient, intelligent being, versus a machine that is the property of Starfleet. The "isn't that a race?" aspect just runs with the assumption that he is a sentient, intelligent being. Picard's "seems reasonably self-aware to me" comment is much more pertinent in this regard.
It's all one and the same part of the case in the case of the aspects that Picard is pulling. He makes Maddox affirm that Data meets 2 of the 3 points he used to define a sentient. The fact is, the final criteria is exceedingly difficult to affirm, as the judge even points out. It is that ethereal quality that we call "a soul." That stuff that seperates us from the raw instincts that drive lesser animals. What drives us to be artisans, and scientists, and poets, and blessed philosphers. To build communities, to care for our planet, and each other. Data posseses that very self evidently in the fact that he takes with him things that have no obvious practical value, except for the merit to Data's own "ego" and existence. Really the whole thing makes no sense if you pull back far enough and realize that... Somehow, somewhere along the way, Data had to apply to go to Starfleet Academy, get accepted, go through the academy, and graduate four years later.... OBVIOUSLY he was considered some form of sentient. Computers don't go to school, they're just programmed.
57:05 The edited (broadcast) version of that final scene is better. The extra stuff Data says is blech.
ah most excellent thank you for the link it will almost be like watching a lost episode for me. to see new old scenes from over 30 years back is neat
Now I have a reason to crack open the blu ray set again. (When I watch the shows, I take the lazy way out and stream)
You dudes have watched this (and filmed yourselves watching this) TWICE, and this isn't even the best of TNG! 😮
48:02 He knew. I don't know how he knew, but no "lawyer" asks any questions in court he doesn't already know the answer to. Having now watched the uncut version, they may have just talked about it beforehand in that one scene in Data's quarters.
30:00 Nobody dishonours Data with Worf around, great pop
Man, Alex I'm with you, that Picard/insect language bit was SO awkward and cringe, I hate to look at it even now.
Nah, I love it lol. Crushing his little diplomatic chore in the end ties off the episode because the entire reason for going in the holodeck in the first place was to avoid "over-studying"... so we had to see that it was a good decision. (Not to mention, it's a great comedic bit) Not only that, we needed to get back on the bridge for Picard's "step on it" which is the best throw to credits of the season!
A very brief but profound moment, in the ending where Data thanks Riker, he calls him "Will." I didn't think much in TNG could surprise me after all this time but that addition really did.
Me, too
27:46 I'm sitting here, eating my pizza. Pulsaki says her line. I look up and see you two eye-dart ">.>" inhale and begin fighting between LAUGHING and CHOKING TO DEATH. Holy shit, guys!
32:29 In a situation like this, in the context of what is essentially a military court, it has to be someone of sufficient rank. Usually this would be "flag" officers, IE: Commdores, Admirals... But they don't have that. Picard and Riker are the ranking officers.
Great idea! Thank you for the link, too.
Season 3 starts out a little slow, more like season 2, but after a few episodes, it just keeps building up and up to the end of the season.
Cool! One of my overall top 3 favorite episodes of TNG I never knew this even existed, let alone seen it before.
Oooooooh Disc 2 for anyone with the physical (Additional data (lol) < HD Extended Version)