FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E21 - Peak Performance
Comments (61)
Fair to consider this the 'real' season finale
The next episode is without a doubt skippable every single Star Trek fan will suggest skipping it is the correct course of action
Nah.
Guys, I am not a pro wrestling fan. But, I watch a couple of guys who are pro wrestling fans so I never take any offense whatsoever when you bring it up at all. Also, in America pro wrestling is pretty much pop culture. I might not understand the actual Nuance of every single reference you make but it's not like I'm left out in the cold I get the point. If anybody gives you shit about wrestling, and they're not huge donors to your patreon, just forget them.
In fairness, they needed two bangers in a row to balance what is next to come :D Will be (reluctantly) watching live with you because something's got me...
The difference in later seasons is that the machine is more oiled and more momentum is gained. So, you get a more evenly good show week to week. But you'll still get clunkers.
Those "long ends" are called warp nacelles.
Yep. They aren't like rockets, they're more like antennae for creating the warp field.
Did Westley cheat? If they had the option in a real situation, it would not be cheating. I recall hearing a story that before WWII there was a mock training battle between two divisions of tanks in the California desert. Patton was one of the commanders. To drive the tanks they had to drive gas trucks to a point and refuel the tanks. To save time, the story goes, that Patton found a gas station and bought all the gas. His opponent was surprised when the tanks showed up early and he won the exercise.
Really appreciate the comments on the Hathaway's look Alex!
Watching this again I realize it was a better episode than I remember. Glad you guys liked it as much as you did.
Great discussion. Loved all the comments read too 🥰
The Hathaway bridge was a redress of the Enterprise's Battle Bridge (itself made from the movie bridge, films I - IV).
And the stargazer from season 1
You only saw the Hathaway bridge last episode- it was redressed as that analysis room (with all the computers) where Worf and K’helar had a lot of dialogue. It has been and will be used many more times. 😉
Courtroom from measure of a man as well
i mean for self preservation reasons i dont get why picard and riker are so against honing their combat tactical skills. they themselves even mention the borg threat and then downplay that ship combat is a 'small part' of being a captain (when it seems to feature prominently)
Its part of the more Roddenberry style federation that is portrayed in TMP and these first 2 seasons of TNG. Unfortunately things do get progressively more star wars, ship battles and combat focused in later seasons and movies
"Rather than a lil divot in the nose" Dang. An important species in the later seasons just got put on blast. ☹️
I can only speak for myself but I'm a big wrestling fan & I'm so excited to acomplish a 20 year goal of attending my 1st Wrestlemania next week
Have a great time!
The Stargazer/Hathaway (Constellation class) is actually my favorite starship design. It's such an odd-looking clunky design, which itself was based on the ready room prop that was kitbashed together using a couple AMT Enterprise kits and various Anime model kits. I acquired a fan-made model kit years ago as well as the exact Anime kits Sternbach and Probert used to make my own 'accurate' version, but sadly I never got around to it.
One thing I am so looking forward to in years to come is all the fans being reminded of how much Miri level junk there are in TNG's vaunted "later seasons" along with the good stuff.
Yeah, I pull up an episode guide sometimes to see where they're at in the show and just pulled up season 3. More bangers than season 2 but there's some snoozers in every season. I especially hate a couple season 3 eps. We're pretty spoiled by modern television where they can just make 6-12 nothing but net episodes and call it a season. These old Star Treks remind us the networks wanted episodes for each week and 26+ each season, so even the best shows threw up at least a eight bricks a year. "You can make 20 perfect TV episodes and still end up with Abe Lincoln on the bridge. That's not bad television, Data, that's life."
You'll be pleased to know there is a screen-accurate perfect Enterprise-D bridge, recreated by Herman Zimmerman and Michael Okuda, being installed in a science fiction museum in Santa Monica, CA.
Risk, gentlemen. Risk.! That's-why-we're-aboard-her! (or watching Star Trek as the part of the Target Audience).
I admire Alex's taste in ships. The Constellation class starship is my favorite Starfleet design and it is the "mascot" for my own channel.
27:20 The quality of the show does get better, but there are still klunkers. Don't worry about being lambasted. 🙂
26:25 I liked "The Child"!!
24:38 Just keep in mind that you both can have an even-subconscious bias of judgement influenced by 30 years of media you've seen that came out since this show did.
14:47 Those "long ends" are called nacelles. ("nuh-CELLZ" or "nay-CELLZ") They are what make the warp drive happen with energy produced in the warp core.
7:02 I wasn't fooled by the Ferengi ship, I knew it was real on first viewing. It's nice when the show follows its own rules. (Data changed the code, Worf's ability to fool the sensors was ended.)
But somehow he could still fool the Ferengi sensors even though he never had their senor codes... 🤔🤷♂️
7:02 Yeah, Wesley cheating is a far cry from "I'm with Starfleet. We don't lie." LOL!
Take Gene out of the writing and it gets better. Go figure.
15:30 Many sets have been cannibalized multiple times throughout the movies and shows. Several sets built for The Motion Picture became TNG sets - the corridors, sickbay, many more, which then turned around and got reused in the later movies. The bridge from Motion Picture became the Enterprise-D battle bridge, which was redressed multiple times throughout, such as the courtroom set in Measure of a Man and the Hathaway bridge.
I watched some clips of the season 2 final to remind myself of it. While definitely not great I don't think it's as horrible as everyone makes it out to be...I don't think you'll love it but I also don't think you will hate it....or at least not completely hate it....
It's really not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. "It is what it is" but for what they had to work with, I think they did pretty well. It's definitely not the most dumb or preposterous or stupid episode of TNG, let alone Star Trek.
The Hathaway bridge, like many other bridges in TNG, was the battle bridge set - if you know what to look for it's hard to unsee. The battle bridge was itself a redress of the set used for the Enterprise bridge in the first 3 movies.
1:43 That's why I was a bit disappointed that you grouped these two strong episodes together. But the live reaction to E22 will be interesting, to say the least!
I'm enjoying these longer format discussion videos. Further seasons have a lot more meat on the bone, so 25-30 minutes to discuss feels just right, outside of the all-time bangers like Measure of a Man.
Given how there wasn't any negativity towards this episode I shall pluck from "The Nitpicker's Guide to TNG" (great companion book). "Plot Oversight: Several times this episode shows that Worf can project a false image on the sensors and viewscreen of the Enterprise. Why? Because he knows the security override codes for the systems involved. Worf works on the Enterprise. He understands how the computer systems work. Worf also manages to project a false image on the Ferengi ship's sensors. How can Worf do this? He doesn't have the security override codes for the Ferengi ship, and he doesn't know their computer systems."
No, the book is wrong. Worf only does it to the Enterprise *once* and that's it. Data changes the code, making it unlikely to impossible for Worf to hack in again. The Ferengi's computer is a point, but I've always assumed that their computers were less sophisticated and easier to hack into.
Ups and downs is exactly the theme of season 2. You're so close to the finish line now
The writers are starting to get a feel for the appropriate level of threat the Ferengi can provide: comic nuisances who can seriously threaten a ship , a major character, or a mission maybe two or three times a season. Not a Big Bad like the Romulans, but maybe more of a Medium Bad.
Borderline spoiling...🤔
100% agree on everything you mentioned for this one. As a teen when I saw it I wanted more of the simlulated space battles with everyone running around crazy trying to win but do appreciate it a bit more and as you can see the TNG Family even in Season 2 is starting to grow and shows signs of what it will become :)
Inquiry: does the porking scene qualify as a "simulated space battle" ? LOL
People love to shit on this episode, but I find it still pretty fun. Riker cheats and Data outsmarts stratagema champ. Good stuff.
I didn't know People didn't like this episode?
Looking forward to it.
What is the start date for Season 3?
In April, exact date still being worked on, will be announced next week
What a high note to end the season on. ...Yep.
Absolutely!
At two seasons in, you guys should know by now that TNG is far better at doing the "ensemble" thing than TOS ever did. TOS was really the "Kirk-Spock-McCoy" show with Scotty getting an occasional look in whilst Sulu, Uhura and Chekov are pushed into the background with little to do. TNG did a far better job at making sure its ensemble cast got a chance to shine (granted it wasn't perfect - there were still flaws) but overall it was still streets ahead of what we got from TOS.
Look at my face. I am your ensemble, now.
This would have been a better season finale in a lot of ways. It's fun, some great crew interactions and just overall pleasant enough to end the season on a good note.
I agree
Not the greatest episode, but generally underrated. It’s the episode that gave us the concept of: “cling on Gile“
Not *the best* but it's very good, very fun! The idea of the plot "involving everyone" instead of focusing on one particular character is spot on! And really well done.