FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E20 - The Emissary
Comments (62)
On continuity, I know William Hartnell of the 1960's Doctor Who show was very strict about remembering which controls did what on the TARDIS because he knew from experience that children paid attention to that stuff.
great discussion, but I liked the little touch of putting the picture there and also the skit (I love it when you do skits).
I don’t really like Suzie’s acting and I can’t really tell you why she seems to fluctuate from wooden to melodrama. Just the delivery of her name seems off, some of that may be the writing her and Troi’s conversation about their parentage is stilted as hell, but Marina probably carries it off better.
There's got to be privacy settings on the holodeck. People would never want to do things in there. Even more innocent things. Sure, the officers should be able to override it just in case. Maybe the AI is complex enough that there's a "lock the door if they're doin' it" setting.
I love how the 2 poker games we saw in the series so far were quite deliberately used. In the first one (“Measure of a Man”), Commander Riker had to later bluff his way through being on the side attempting to get Data classified as property. In this episode, Worf has to bluff his way through that situation with the Klingon ship. Both Riker and Worf needed that poker face. In fact, look back at “Measure of a Man.” I think the Pulaski addresses Riker’s poker face. I need to look back at this episode’s poker scene to see what is said of Worf.
I never realized til now that the actress, Suzie Plakson, who played K'Ehleyr, also played the Vulcan doctor, Lt. Selar, in TNG Season 2, Episode 6, “The Schizoid Man.”
Worf also really admires Picard
I knew you guys would love this episode, and that's why i was so excited to see you watch it. Suzie Plakson is so fantastic in this episode. You really buy her performance. I think it's something about her eyes and very expressive face that sells it so well. Definitely (as they would have said back when this aired) a bodacious babe.
The way she delivers her lines is so "Oh, I'm so over it" too. Really fits her personality, cynical attitude, and lot in life.
Your discussion reminds me to respect that Picard gave Worf command in an extremely critical situation. I think this shows how much Picard has prepared his crew and trusts them.
Spot on!
As I grew older, each time I saw this, I appreciated it more. And she cared about him, but it did bother her that it appeared he wanted to take the oath with her for the sake of honor over his feelings. Her human side still needed validation that there were feelings present and it wasn't just all Klingon.. She knew he doesn't show the emotions she wants to see, but her Human side really needed to know they are truly there. Just validating that they are there, even knowing he can't show it, can really mean a lot to someone.
The longer you guys watch Star Trek, the better you'll get at recognising guest stars who keep coming back as different alien characters. Personally, I tend to recognise them from their voices.
I've been binging Seinfeld, and it's shocking how many TNG guest actors appear on the show. Almost one an episode it seems.
Guys, I'm loving what you two have started to create here. The level of commentary is just great and it's so satisfying to watch you enjoy Star Trek as much as we do. If you two keep this up with the rest of Star Trek like DS9 voy and beyond, I guarantee that you'll grow a lot! There's so much more greatness left in these series that it gets me excited to see you enjoy them for the first time.
I seriously cannot wait for the boys to experience the greatness of DS9, and to see some of the best episode ideas in any Star Trek series with Voyager.
29:30 I could see it on your face, Josh. You don't have to explain. You'll get your chance to "be more emotive" later. :grin:
26:42 No! Riker walks in wearing the same outfit he wore on "Angel One" and gets the biggest Cheshire grin: "Room for one more [penis]??"
20:44 "Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, yeah! The poke her was great." — Josh You heard it here first, folks! LOL!
15:03 Like I said in the Patreon Takes ... The most emotionally-charged and *vulnerable* thing Worf has ever said on screen. And probably in his entire life. You can really tell it affected both Josh and Alex pretty heavily. Josh may deny it but I saw some mist in his eyes, too. The Iceman melteth a twinge! MAY THE PORKS BE WITH HIM
14:20 That's right. Worf WAS in command, of the entire ship! No different than Riker or Data or Geordi being in command, other than Picard and Riker and those others actually being available.
13:40 That's the subtle humor of Worf's "Klingons never _____" lines. He's usually bluffing about that.
10:50 That's not ritualistic. They are literally smelling each other. The pheromones that are likely there accentuate the experience and push it further. The human equivalent, kissing, isn't a ritual either, but a lot of people are turned on by it.
Point of fact, humans during sex, or leading up to sex, pick up on pheromones released by their partner. This is that "foggy" "euphoric" state that starts.
Batman: The Animated Series back in the early 90s had a whole episode where it opens with all the villains sitting around a table playing poker, sharing Batman stories. That was it. It was a kids show and it's all that happened for 30 minutes and it was so great. It was a classic episode and that damn cartoon was so beyond even normal shows of it's day!
10:40 Yes, Worf was likely a virgin. He grew up on Earth and hadn't really been around any Klingons before those three came aboard in "Heart of Glory." I would expect Klingon sexual congress to be extra-rough and too-endowed-to-handle for must humanoid females. As Worf coyly shows only occasionally, Klingons are very passionate creatures. That's why he's stayed celibate around humans.
Not quite right on the 2nd thing. But for me to say any more would be a spoiler.
8:42 Yeah, they can lock the door.
8:08 Worf wanted to go relax (Captain's orders!), and his Calisthenics program on the holodeck is the way he does that. It just happened to already be active!
7:48 You can thank Michael Okuda (and his wife) for that.
2:19 Pulaski doesn't call Worf handsome because she's overly attracted to him. She's just trying to help him feel more at ease and to fit in more, just like one's mother may address her son as "handsome" in front of others.
Y'all brought up How I Met Your Mother in the reaction and Susie Plaskin played Marshall's mother.
I know 😭
I'm not sure if it was just a slip, but K'Ehleyr isn't in StarFleet. She's a Federation emissary. Think of the difference between the two as the Federation being the US government and StarFleet being the military.
Good to know
If you ever get into reviewing 1980s action shows like the A-team or Magnum PI you will encounter the actor playing the gravely voiced Klingon captain everywhere.
They actually did see him twice before. In an episode of the OG BSG and an episode of Quantum Leap.
Geordi and the engineering boys must have to hose that holodeck down every night with all the sex going on. Yikes. 🤮
It’s essentially a giant replicator, any matter left behind gets deconstructed. Like the plants in Encounter at Farpoint, and the dust in Worfs program.
This is my fourth favorite episode of season 2. Very good episode.
I would assume that because Keylar (not gonna bother to spell that right) was a Klingon that's what makes mating more important to marriage.
An episode that begins AND ends on a live action scene, I feel like that never happens.
Enjoy these kinds of episode musical scores while they last.
Kaylar is a babe!
The big guy who attacked Captain Pike in The Cage? LOL
Sadly, Cliff Bole passed away in 2014 at the age of 76. :-(
Damn, RIP
There are several upcoming episodes that make me blink back a few tears. There are six or seven that can make me ugly cry. My favorite TNG episode makes me cry every time. Be interesting to see your reactions when you get there.
Same!
My Riker's Poker Game Theory of Next Generation: if we get a scene of the bridge crew playing poker, the episode is gonna be a banger.
As I mentioned before, this is one of my top 20. I knew you guys would love it. And the Klingon K'Tinga battle cruiser in your background is great!!
I like the added picture on the table. D'awwww
THAT THUMBNAIL!!! Your best one yet! That should be your channel pic!! LOL!!
I'd take the TA oath 😅
TOS Klingons = Russian Cold War allegory, mustache-twirling tropes TNG Klingons = Fleshed out fictional warrior culture, no allegory (without stretching) I can see why you view TOS "Klings" as mid. They were never anything more than presented on screen. It's TNG that defines the Klingons as rounded beings. Roddenberry himself expressed dissatisfaction with how he made the Klingons in TOS and created Worf to rectify that.
That's just not true. There's a lot of lore crammed into Errand of Mercy and Day of the Dove alone that fleshes them out greatly. People just tend to gloss over it for whatever reason. The Klingons are also one of the few times we get episode-to-episode continuity. From the end of Errand of Mercy, where we get the Organian Peace Treaty, into Trouble With Tribbles - which the entire premise of the episode hinges on the fact that the treaty. No treaty, no competition between Klingon Empire and Federation to develop Sherman's planet, no need for the subterfuge. Some dialogue excerpts from "Errand of Mercy" and "Day of the Dove" "Errand of Mercy" "KIRK: We have legitimate grievances against the Klingons. They've invaded our territory, killed our citizens. They're openly aggressive. They've boasted that they'll take over half the galaxy. KOR: Why not? We're the stronger! * You've tried to hem us in, cut off vital supplies, strangle our trade! You've been asking for war! * KIRK: You're the ones who issued the ultimatum to withdraw from the disputed areas! KOR: They are not disputed! * They're clearly ours. * And now you step in with some kind of trick." "Day of the Dove" "MARA: So this was no trick? SCOTT: It's the alien that's done this. We're in its power, our people and yours. KIRK: We only wanted to stop the fighting to save us all. MARA: We have always fought. We must. * We are hunters, Captain, tracking and taking what we need. There are poor planets in the Klingon systems, we must push outward if we are to survive. * KIRK: There's another way to survive. Mutual trust and help. MARA: I will help you now. KIRK: How? MARA: I will take you to Kang. I will add my voice to yours." That's not even getting into that two of the major Klingon episodes in TOS lay the groundwork for Worf, and The Klingon Alliance in TNG to exist, which TNG uses to build off of. Standing on the shoulders of giants.
As I understand it, continuity of storytelling in TV for the first time is both claimed by (around the same time?) Babylon 5 and Buffy. Both use it, B5 masterfully and Buffy does quite nice as well. We ALL knew you would love this episode....I do too :)
It depends. JMS, the creator of Babylon 5, has talked about that. It depends on your definitions. Babylon 5 would probably be the first American science fiction show to have a long running story that had an intended conclusion. For American television, we had Soap Operas going back to the 50s-60s which were non-stop serial stories. There were TV shows prior to that which had some. Primarily in the late 80s moving into the 90s. Buffy is a good example, as well as certain police procedurals. E.R., which started the same year as Babylon 5 was heavily serialized character drama. (Really good show too.)
I liked K'Ehleyr as Robert's evil ex wife Cinnamon in Everybody Loves Raymond.
Alright Alex, fuck it. I'm done. I'm leaving. You wanna talk shit about TOS Klingons?? You wanna go there?! *Flips desk and storms out* Target Audience? MORE LIKE FAIL AUDIENCE! I'm bluffing. I would never do that. *Dramatic turn* OR WOULD I?
Steve we love TOS, but we’re gonna need a whole thesis to convince us TOS Klingons weren’t mid as hell 😭 Also, FAIL AUDIENCE is unironically a good title for a segment where we go over our L’s
Suzie Plakson and Michael Dorn have chemistry for days. This is a fave of mine!