Open Development Discussion
Welcome to my open development discussion!
As we’re approaching the end of Part 1, it’s time for me to decide how I’m going to tackle a lot of the issues that have been bugging me for the last couple of months. If I want to make any notable changes to the first half of the game, it has to be now since I don’t want to return to Part 1 once it’s out (outside of the necessary bug fixes, obviously).
Throughout Seeking Closure’s existence, the main three critiques I received were:
I hate that Julia is the default girlfriend in the present timeline.
Being in the present feels confusing since I, as the player, have no idea what happened in the past so I don’t know which decisions to make.
I want to spend more time in the present to get the story going and have a reason to care about the characters introduced there.
The second and third points contradict each other, so with that alone – I can’t please everyone, but there are still changes I can introduce to ensure the game is more enjoyable for players who will discover it in the future here or on Steam.
It’s fair to assume that if you’re reading this, you’re already invested enough to stick with the game even if I keep everything as it is, but I need to consider future players as well.
When I devised my visual novel initially, making Julia the mandatory girlfriend felt like the only “right” choice for the story I wanted to tell. However, after 18 months of development, I regret this decision, particularly since I want to place as big of an emphasis on “player choice” as I can.
In my original storyboard, I wanted to add one chapter in the Present for every two spent in the Past until it catches up to the “current day”. This would allow me to give all the necessary backstory while also developing the characters introduced in the Present. Since I didn’t have any experience creating a story like this, the concept looked fine on paper.
However, I quickly realized that I’d written myself into a corner since it’s not possible to spend a lot of time in the Present timeline without other characters (or the MC) referencing past events. Nevertheless, I couldn’t freely reference the Past since you as the player haven’t experienced it yet and didn’t make the choices that will shape it. This wouldn’t have been an issue in a kinetic novel, but that’s not what I’m doing here.
Chapter 4 was already a bit messy. Even though it didn’t force you to commit to anything, you can have Fleur/Susan/Micaela show renewed interest in you (based on your choices in previous chapters), but since it’s possible to be completely done with them by the end of Part 1, their behavior can make 0 sense in retrospect depending on your decisions.
As such, I decided to stick to the Past timeline until it’s finished to avoid making that issue even bigger. This resulted in all the girls that are only included in the Present feeling forgotten and it will be an uphill battle to make the players care about them later, which is an issue since they have an important role to play in the story.
Another point of critique is the hairstyles of the girls from the past being very different in the present. Similar to most people, I prefer their past looks too, but at the same time, it would be weird if most of them kept the same hair for 5 years. On the other hand, is realism important in this case if the new hairstyle makes people like them less? I honestly don’t know and I might resolve this problem in a poll on a girl-by-girl basis.
With all of that being said, I’m currently considering several options while I gradually speed up development for Chapter 8.
Keep everything as is. The laziest option, but one that a lot of existing fans and supporters will likely prefer since they’ve already played through all the problematic parts. However, I obviously would like to receive more supporters over time, so it’s not the optimal solution for me.
Only make minor tweaks throughout Part 1, changing and expanding some of the dialogue to be less confusing and/or committal, while also adding more options to abandon paths that you’re no longer interested in.
In addition to the above, rework the Julia-related content in Part 1 to make her an optional girlfriend and have a separate choice at the start of Part 2 (or in the end of Part 1) for players who will continue their old saves.
Remove all the “Present day” scenes outside of arriving at the hotel and having the “flashback”, while keeping (and adding more) scenes of meeting Julia to build up her character without making her MC’s girlfriend by default. As such, at the start of Part 2, it’ll be up to you if Julia comes with you as your friend or love interest. Another benefit of this approach is that when you start talking to the present-day versions of all the girls, you’ll have full information on how your relationship developed and if you’re still interested in them. The downside is – it makes the story more linear, removing most of the “What happened? How did it come to this?” intrigue from the present timeline. However, since it isn’t delivered in a compelling manner already, maybe it’s not that big of a loss. If you’re a returning player, another drawback is that you’ll have to replay most of the scenes from Chapters 1 and 4 in Part 2, which will feel wonky and immersion-breaking if you continue your old save(s).
Reframe the entire story and finish everything in the past, pretending the present timeline never existed, as the MC gets to ride into the sunset at the end of his vacation. This option completely abandons the premise of the story I wanted to tell, but I’m thinking about it for two reasons. Firstly, since there are no signs of the war ending anytime soon, I have no idea how long I’ll manage to avoid getting enlisted into the military against my will. As such, I can disappear any day without warning and you won’t get any closure for the game at all. Secondly, the current projections are that I’ll have electrical power for only about 6-8 hours out of 24 a day, starting from November, and if that happens, this will bring the development process to a near complete halt. I don’t want to choose this option, but if the consensus is “better an unplanned ending than no ending at all”, then maybe it’s the “right” thing to do.
My mind has been split between all these different options for months now and I still can’t commit to a single direction since all of them have significant drawbacks.
As such, if you have any thoughts on the matter, or if you would like to suggest a completely different option, I’m open to hearing you out (even if it’s related to something relatively small like the hairstyle dilemma). That doesn’t mean I’m going to do what someone else tells me to, but it might help me make a decision, while I continue to work on Chapter 8 since most of it is set in stone regardless of anything discussed above.
A part of me didn’t want to write this post since I don’t want to disappoint and upset people who will provide solid arguments that I won’t listen to (since it’s impossible to satisfy everyone), but I still decided to publish it in hopes of gaining some unique insight that I’m lacking at the moment.
Comments (13)
update next version this game and please update and this game ntr version relase
I have very little experience when it comes to creative writing but based on my brief stint as a technical writer, I would like to offer a solution that may possibly (moderately) appease both the current player base and new potential fans: (1) Perhaps it's better to look at this from a more holistic approach. Future Steam supporters would most likely experience and critique Seeking Closure as a whole (Part 1 and Part 2 included). With that said, I think Part 1 works well with being "Past-centric" as it is. Perhaps instead of working on incorporating the present timeline LIs in Part 1, it would be much more efficient (both practically and narratively) to just make Part 2 "Present-centric". (2) Regardless if your decision moving forward, I do hope you continue the story the way you want it. Best wishes, mate!
Thanks for sharing your outlook and the well wishes. That is the direction that I will most likely take.
It's good to have ambition, and your game wears it colors proudly. That said I can understand the different opinion on the state of the game currently. I think Julia is an interesting character but since we don't get to spend much time with her (yet) she doesn't come as interesting as the other characters. Finding the right balance between present and past is hard. i honestly think you'll get there for sure but that will, without a doubt, take time & experience. A story is a living thing until the moment the author decide to end it. As with anything living, growing pains are to be expected. Change is inevitable, what was right today might be wrong tomorrow. In the end, it's your story. When you decide to end it, be satisfied with your choice. if you're not, then consider revisiting it later when you have more experience under your belt. As the japanese saying goes (which I'm most likely badly quoting) "Failures are the stepping stones to success". Sorry for the rambling, I'll end with "Keep Calm and Carry on" =)
Appreciate the words of wisdom and the encouraging message.
I'll address the 3 points :- 1. I hate that Julia is the default girlfriend in the present timeline. 2. Being in the present feels confusing since I, as the player, have no idea what happened in the past so I don’t know which decisions to make. 3. I want to spend more time in the present to get the story going and have a reason to care about the characters introduced there. 1 & 2 - I think these are completely incorrect from a USP (unique selling point). There are now so many AVN games, the idea that this jumps forwards and backwards in time makes the whole concept original. These people most likely just want a bland game that is a carbon copy of half a dozen others. 3. Nothing wrong with this, however, the more time you spend in the present the larger differences you'll need to show due to the player choices (if you don't you'll get some very valid complaints). Not sure if you're doing this already, but the only thing i can recommend is to have an excellent method of keeping track of all the decision branches. I believe the only way to do that is to have a good chart or UML diagram. If you keep the storyline interesting and work hard on making the graphics even better over time i'm sure you'll end up with a fantastic story. If you think about Dr PinkCake and his first story Acting Lessons. They took everything learned from their first game and leveraged that into B A D, which is probably the finest AVN. The thing that raises them above others is the quality of storytelling, which is why there are so many subscribers and why people wait an entire year for the next chapter. In short, ignore the comments to fundamentally change the game. Tell your story, but create processes to enable you to not write yourself into a corner
Thanks for the detailed response. I agree that the presence of two timelines is one of the things that make my game unique and it should stay, even if I tweak some aspects of it. I have a graphical representation of the different branches, but it can still be a bit difficult to keep track of things when they start to intertwine. I'll definitely work on optimizing this system. You bring up a good point with DPC, and I hope I'll manage to grow in my craft as time goes on, even though the last few chapters make me feel like I'm getting worse at writing because of my fractured state of mind. As for the last part, making Julia an option instead of an obligatory girlfriend, isn't something that just the audience wants, it's something that I would want to do myself. The reason I'm debating this topic is because I'm unsure if I dislike her being the default romance option enough to do all the work required to fix it.
I also feel that small changes would be the most optimal at this stage, firstly because it won't stop the story progress for long and secondly because most players like the game as it is. Regarding replaying the game, I don't really mind it with a good game, especially when my choices will have a greater impact and you can always skip the scenes you already know and remember well.
Always glad to hear your thoughts on the matter, thank you. This does seem to be the general trend of most of the responses I've received so far.
Some interesting dilemmas, thanks for the opportunity to weigh in. My strong preference would be to retain the fundamental structure of the game as is, with the different timelines and the mystery about what happens. This is part of what drew me in initially and kept me intrigued; I think it’s a valuable USP for the game that you should think very carefully about before discarding. Even in an unfinished state I think the game would be better for having that structure rather than not. I would therefore opt for tweaking, clarifying and expanding as appropriate rather than significantly reshaping what you’ve got already. I think the issue with Julia is that many players would be happy to dispense with her entirely and others want to see more of her - and it feels like whichever option you choose won’t be ideal for those two groups. Ultimately I think you have to go with what makes most sense for the story. If she’s a big part of the core story then you need to keep her around and probably develop her as a genuine LI on a par with the mains; if she’s just a means to an end then a reduced role that is more “on the rails” rather than dependent on player choices, might make sense. Good luck with everything. I will support you whatever you decide.
Appreciate the feedback and the detailed reasoning you provided. Always interested in learning what enticed people to support my game.
Hi dev I think you should combine the first two questions (options) make small changes in the present but keep the game in the past so that the characters will have to go through Elena disappear and the other girl remains save when Mc have to make chois to save her I mean time he loose his mother.. in the hospital when he go to check his friend find that nothing is the same anymore ( dev the only part that you should change is the Girlfriend it is better to keep the relationship in just friend because Mc will not have any one at that point (let the players decide to build potential love path with her or friend path)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll account for your opinion when I'll be making the decision later.