Dev Post: Chapter 3 Update Time
I've had a comment. So - I'll address it here.
Is the length of time taking for Chapter 3 too long? Absolutely. I completely agree. Not only for you guys - but for me, too. It's eating up way more of my time that I anticipated.
So I'm going to spell out here why that's the case
Image Creation and Rendering
Rendering takes time. High quality rendering takes longer. I've been creating 3D images within Daz for 10+ years. Without blowing ones own trumpet, i create high quality images which probably take a little longer than the average user to create. If we want plastic, unrealistic models with plastic tits and funny looking faces and scenes with basic uniform lighting .. or using the same static render for 10 lines of dialogue - which can be seen in other VNs - then yes, I'd whack an update out every 2 months.
To put some numbers on this. The set up of an image from blank canvas to full scene and render - importing character models, posing, adding background details, setting up lighting, rendering, re-work, post work .. can take upwards of 5 hours per image when I'm doing a full image for a gallery.
Sometimes even just setting a scene up in Behind The Curtain can take a full day. I think my record is nigh on 2 days to set up a scene before any rendering can be done.
This is obviously way too long for a VN given the number of images needed. Obviously, every image isn't set up from scratch in a VN but each individual image requires work. I've managed to get that down to about 50 minutes per image, on average, when you include everything. Yes, some take longer - certainly when there are multiple characters per image or a lot of background detail - some take less. But it comes out about 50 minutes on average.
There are over 2000 renders currently within Chapter 3 of Behind The Curtain.
2000 x 50 = 100,000 minutes
Even if doing full 8 hour days, that's over 200 days of just creating scenes and rendering. Nothing else. Doesn't include me doing my other 3D stuff. My RL work. Taking burn-out breaks. Going on holiday. Christmas. New Year. Birthdays. Or going to the pub to get pissed.
It's 208, full 8 hour working days to create over 2000 renders. And again, that doesn't include creating and rendering Animations, either.
And all this is important. The clues in the name. VISUAL Novel. So there needs to be high quality images to help tell the story.
Could it be done quicker? Yes. See aforementioned plastic titted, funny looking, low quality rendering references above.
If we want it to look good, which I certainly do, then it takes time.
Story & Dialogue
Again, without blowing ones own trumpet - I'm a published author. I have 10 published short novels and 3 fully published books. If you're an avid fantasy reader (a very avid reader!!!) - you might have read something I've wrote.
What this means is that when I'm writing, you're going to get a full story, deep characters with full backgrounds and arcs. Threads are going to link together. Deep connections are going to coalesce. Things are going to make sense. There's going to be conflict. Drama. All the things that you'd read in a book. Because .. like above .. the clue is in the name : Visual NOVEL
You're not going to get a few lines of badly written dialogue from me that loosely connects one image showing a set of tits to another image of a set of tits. There are other VNs out there that already do that if that's your thing.
Constructing such a story takes time. Numerous drafts. Catching loose threads. Addressing "plot holes" etc
Narrative Branching
In addition, Behind the Curtain is built around Narrative Branching. And I'm not talking about choosing either Choice A or Choice B and then displaying a couple of lines of different dialogue and then get back on track like what happens in other VNs.
We're talking branching that occurs across the entire story. I've just completed a scene within Chapter 3 that concludes a story arc that was set in motion in Chapter 1 .. and even in Chapter 3, you can choose to address it or ignore it and go and do something else instead.
What this means is people going through the VN will get a different take on the story and see characters and situations in different lights depending on the paths they take.
For instance, there's a point in Chapter 3 where you as the player gets to choose one of 3 different paths. You can only choose one.
Now we don't get a couple of lines of different dialogue per path .. we get an 8 minute scene, a different 15 minute scene or a entirely different 7 minute scene .. each scene will not only impact things there and then, but will have consequences at both the end of Chapter 3 and definitely (depending on the choice made) in Chapter 4. Even these 3 paths have paths within them. And there are other branches that weave their way through the story. A major one get's set in motion at the beginning of Chapter 3 which will have repercussions through the next few CHAPTERS of Behind The Curtain.
Choose wisely, because choices matter. There are currently close to 50 tracked game instance flags that determine what branch in the story we go down, all set by you, the user in the choices you make (not to mention they modify relationships)
Choices matter. Hence why I make a big play of Ironman Mode.
But the scenes depicting those choices each need to be created and storied out. And this takes time.
If you think Behind The Curtain is a "normal" VN in that sense then you haven't been paying attention.
Coding
One other string to my bow is I'm a coder by trade. College. Uni. Work. Been coding probably for more years than many of you are alive. As such, I can add extensive coding into Behind The Curtain to enhance the experience and the story telling.
I mentioned in a previous Dev Log about Chapter 3, Scene 1..
That's over 2700 lines of dialogue / code .. for ONE scene in one chapter .. And that doesn't include helper functions that are stored in a separate file.
That takes time to write the code. There's probably more lines of code / dialogue written for that one scene than a lot of other VNs have in their entire story. Seriously. I've looked .. behind the curtain .. at other VNs.
That's one scene.
Writing, debugging, testing this stuff takes time.
How Close To Finishing Chapter 3?
Close. How close? I don't know.
I've found a way within Daz to speed up my workflow of late, so that's helping. Although - a couple of file corrupting bugs seem to come with it which has messed things up at times.
And I've put aside the other stuff I do on a day to day basis to really get in and at it. If anybody is waiting for a YouTube video - then hold your horses, I've not uploaded one for 2 months which I think is a bit of a record for me!
I will say if the current pace of creation keeps up - the last planned render will be completed in about a month.
I'll then have to go back through everything looking if there are any holes that need filling. I know I have a few animations to do (I've upped the quality of animations in Chapter 3 too - oh, and that's more rendering added onto what was mentioned up top). Tighten the dialogue. Do a few UI / Settings / Save-Load code to write and amend and then do the Gallery / Achievement images ..
I fully appreciate peoples support but on the one hand hate the fact that it's taking so long to get Chapter 3 finished and out for you guys to go through.
You might only throw a couple of bucks my way each month, but with everything combined - rendering, writing, coding etc .. I'm doing nigh on 12 hours a day for those few bucks a month - so I FULLY appreciate every little penny you guys throw my way each month so I can continue work on this.
Timely Plug!! If you haven't yet become a patron and gone through Chapter Two yet - then please consider doing and help support Behind The Curtain while we're on this last push.
I've got high standards. And that takes time.
But .. we're nearly there.
Comments (8)
You are the storyteller. Those who want more episodes, more and more frequently, may well drift away to pursue other visual novels in the short term, because instant gratification (sorry, really bad pun) instead of good storytelling is their focus. I say, do it your way. If the overall quality of the story--in all its measures--is established and sustained, then my guess is that your audience will persist and grow over the long haul. My point: while the production schedule is certainly of some importance to nearly all, it is only one of the variables that will define success or failure. I am in the camp of those who want an engaging, well-written story with a select number of carefully crafted storyline choices/paths. And always, always, superb visuals.
Well this is the thing .. the story, character arcs, situations, drama, conflict etc .. are what's important to me and I'd rather take the time in getting those right rather than knocking something together quickly (or quicker) just to get it out of the door. I'm won't get it 100% right but it will be closer to right than not by taking the time to try and get it right in the first place.
I assume that it was my suggestion that a balance between perfection and time to update was what set that lot off. I feel that you have been a tad over sensitive to what was written as, and intended as, constructive criticism. I've recommended you on my page and listed you as an inspiration in my own work, which I wouldn't dare to compare to yours because I am not a coder, graphic artist or published author (by the way I looked for your books and couldn't find them, a link would be nice as I'm genuinely interested). I only came into this world of Visual and Kinetic novels just over 12-months ago and it was then that I began learning the basics of rendering and coding. I put in a similar amount of time to my stuff so I understand the workload and the desire for compensation or even recognition, but (and this is a big but) we're creating visual novels for the porn arena that feeds a pack of eager consumers in a world that values immediate gratification, which is why I suggested that you might want to consider the time between updates. In your immediate response you poo pooed my suggestion that you were seeking perfection but the statement above underlines my point. I'm not trying to suggest that there is anything wrong in that, but as in all things, we are better when a balance is achieved.
Certainly not an over-sensitivity on my part .. it's an explanation for all as to what goes on in the development of BtC It HAS taken a long time. I won't argue against that - so I felt it was important to point out the why's behind that. I've explained in bits and pieces, posts here and there throughout development of what's going into Chapter 3 and why it's taking time - but felt it was important to put it all in one post for those old and new to see it. Again, I shall poo-poo your suggestion .. :) .. I'm not seeking perfection, I'm seeking completion. If a VN has 10 scenes - it has 10 scenes. Not 9. Not 5. It has 10. Nobody would be happy with a book, tv show, movie or game with half the content that should have been there, missing. A big chunk missing in the middle or the ending that you were expecting left out completely. 10 scenes. 10 episodes. 10 chapters. Or 10 movies in the series. There's a beginning and an end point and then there are steps to get from one to the other. And those take time. I'm not going to cut corners, lower my own standards and do a half arsed job just to get something rushed and out the door. As for my "other stuff" .. they aren't under "Rauko" or even under my real name and so it's no surprise you wouldn't find them and I'd want to keep it that way .. that's part of another life. Over here is a world of tits and ass. Over there, isn't .. :)
You do you Rauko! Some people understand why things take time, others are expecting a fully fleshed out story within a year. The VNs with bi-monthly updates are usually cookie-cutter games, with all the standard tropes and clichés imaginable. They're a dime a dozen. Anyone expecting that here, has not been paying attention imho. I do however appreciate the semi-regular updates (and your new CH3 screenshots) you put out. Always interesting to follow your work process and see how things are moving along. Just don't feel like you have to justify anything. Tell us what you're doing and how you're doing it. Anything else is for the peanut gallery. Keep on keeping on!
I'm gonna keep on keeping on! Don't worry about that! To be honest - when I set out doing this I had no idea myself the amount of work that was needed to make an AVN. You don't consider just how many images are needed, for one. I've easily done more images for BtC even in the last year than I've done images over the last 10 years of using Daz It's basically a full time job .. but one, i fortunately, enjoy doing
Thanks for the update mate :). Personally, not time but final quality matters. Take the time and let it cook. I do appreciate to get somewhat regular updates though, especially if I pledge, considering so many AVNs get dropped.
Appreciate it .. I get updates out when there's something to update or when there's something cropped up that needs saying .. if I've just rendered 50 renders in a week and completed a scene .. then there's nothing much exciting to tell otherwise every post will be ".. done 50 renders .. yay me!!" I've started posting random images from Chapter 3 of late .. which, I don't know if anybody picked up on, but is my way of saying: "We're cooking, guys .. countdown has started" We'll be done soon