Case 344: Amerithrax

I'm wondering why the actual anthrax letters weren't discovered on his devices.

Hey sisters, your buddy Sauce here with a couple of notes from this week: [warning: typical long-ass Sauce PSA incoming, you know I don't fuck around about mental health] 1. Even though he probably ended up killing five people, Bruce Ivins ABSOLUTELY did the right thing by telling both his personal counselor and sharing in his therapy group that he was having thoughts of harming others. People who act on their invasive thoughts about homicide are a vanishingly small percent of the (more than you'd think!) people who have those thoughts. Psychosis and disordered thinking ('disordered' here meaning 'outside the norm,' not 'disorganized') are scary symptoms, but they don't mean you're a scary person-- just someone whose brain is running around in a circle trying to bite off its own hands, and you should not have to endure those symptoms alone any more than someone with suicidal thoughts should. The important part here is to talk to a professional about your feelings, someone who is trained to understand what's happening and how to properly respond to it. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A THOUGHT CRIME-- THINKING ABOUT VIOLENCE IS NOT ILLEGAL and telling a mental health professional about your violent thoughts will not result in you being put in prison. (THIS! ALSO! GOES! FOR! SEXUAL! THOUGHTS!! Paraphilia isn't a sexual preference, it's a SYMPTOM A LARGER ISSUE and it is important and GOOD to seek help for it.) If you are in a severe crisis, you may be held for observation in a safe place, but those places are typically just boring, not punitive. Exactly like people with suicidal thoughts, the standard time you'll be held (at least in the US, where this case takes place and where I do not live because I'm from Malice Springs) is 72 hours. You will see a psychiatrist, therapist, and social worker in that time. If you live in the US and you need to talk to someone about homicidal, suicidal, or disordered thoughts (like someone is watching you or trying to hurt you), you can dial 988 from any phone, day or night, 24/7, 365 days a year. You can text them, too. 988 will connect you to a trained volunteer, not a cop. Remember, you are a good person. You deserve to feel safe, comfortable and happy no matter who you are. No one is irredeemable, least of all you. There will ALWAYS be hope for you. I love you. 2. If anything on or coming out of your body that isn't typically yellow starts being yellow, go to the Emergency Room right away. If you think I'm annoying on here, imagine me speed-limping and yelling at nurses who are supposed to be taking care of my Abruptly Yellow Dad on Father's Day.

Idk if it’s because I’m reading too much into it (likely) but I really like how Casefile seems to thematically select certain cases at certain times to communicate important things to listeners. The potential for the Amerithrax investigation to be led astray by fears of foreign interference when sometimes the threat is homegrown instead, and WHY it’s homegrown. What cultural and societal events were occurring that caused people to act the way they do. Waco had the same vibe, the tension between LE and civilians and how extremist groups take advantage of a confluence of tragedies to further their cause. Anyways great stuff, as usual adore the thoroughness of Casefile.

Wow… this brought back memories of the immediate post 9/11 time. Everything felt chaotic and scary

👏👏👏👏 amazing job Casefile team!! I was in middle school when this all happened and I remember the overall panic in our country about anthrax. All I recall was that it was a terrorist attack and that it was connected to 9/11, but I don’t remember hearing who was allegedly responsible. This was a great episode. Kudos to the researchers and writers!!!

Excellent.

I remember pretty clearly the extent, if not the details, of this case as it was happening. My clearest memory of the whole thing however is a joke on the daily show where Jon Stewart suggested that the band Anthrax was changing their name to “basket of puppies“ and I’ve been calling the band “basket of puppies” ever since. Inhalation anthrax will absolutely kill you graveyard dead, but like ricin, somebody has to be doing it to you on purpose. As my sociology teacher condescendingly told me, “you aren’t enough of a problem for anyone to want you dead.” so everyone thank Professor Baker for inspiring me to become increasingly annoying until someone tries to kill me over it

I am less than 10 minutes in and I have unlocked a new fear

I just listened to another podcast do this case like 2 weeks ago and the whole time I was thinking "Casefile should do this!" But that podcast left out SO much context I'm amazed. I don't think they even included basic details like the first J-Lo note or the fact he was likely motivated (at least partially) by a wish to keep his department funded. Excellent episode. Because of this guy, my mom spent several years mailing all her packages *completely* wrapped in layers and layers of masking tape. The paranoia people felt was real. (Also I feel like clarifying for any non-Americans wondering about the "W" comment: George Bush was the U.S. president after Reagan, who oversaw the Gulf War. George W. Bush was his son, George Bush, Jr., who was elected after Clinton and oversaw the Iraq War and Afghanistan War after 9-11. American press always style his name as "George W. Bush" for clarity and Americans typically just call him "Dubya." )

This was a really good episode! I remember seeing this on the news as a kid but I didn’t realise it was so bad. I thought a few people had gotten ill and that was it.

Brilliant telling of this years long, winding and technical investigation. Thank you 💛

Apologies, I haven’t started listening yet, but…The code name was “Amerithrax”? Are you serious? I mean that’s just got to be the dumbest code name ever... let me guess, the Republicans were in power 🤣🤣🤣

This was so crazy!!

Would have been much clearer if they had simply retrieval the CCTV of him taking the dehydrator to the tip...

If I had a nickel for every 9/11 related case Casefile has covered, is have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot it's just weird it happened twice.

We've been waiting for this one! Thankyou guys 💜

Enjoying it so far! Quick note - you refer to president George Bush at about 35.30. That's actually a totally different president - you mean George W Bush. It might be clearer if you add the W 🙂