February Bonus: Diets for your Brain!
Can someone's diet cure their schizophrenia? Of course not! But some real jerky psychologists & MDs in the '70s decided to tell people it could. This month, we're diving back into Aubrey's diet book collection—and this time, we're focusing on diets that claim to have psychological and behavioral effects. Buckle up, it's even more unhinged than you think!
You can play the episode directly through Patreon or use our RSS feed to add it to your podcast app. Here are the instructions from Patreon. As ever, leave a comment if you've got a request for future Patreon bonus episodes.
Also thanks again for bearing with us on our unexpectedly long hiatus! See you back on the main feed soon,
M&A
Comments (216)
maybe the real "hitler particles" are SUGAR and PROTEIN!
I've had so many doctors I've gone to for my depression suggest losing weight (I'd be a bit less depressed if people stopped commenting on my body but nobody wants to try that :P) and at this point one of my drivers for losing weight is just going to the dr without my weight being blamed for everything. I just want to go to a dr and have the actual issue addressed. Which to be fairsome doctors are good, I saw one last week who was thorough and has referred me to stuff, very helpful. But she still weighed me, because that's relevant to fondling my privates to see if I imagined the lump I felt. It's so inescapable, I'm so tired.
There actually is a lot of evidence that diet can cure schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. There is a new field called Metabolic Psychiatry and it is publishing a lot of studies and getting very good results now. Just thought you should know.
There is no empirical, peer-reviewed research or evidence that proves diet changes can cure mental illnesses. Metabolic psychiatry is so quacky, it deserves a Maintenance Phase episode.
"Michael." "Aubrael." Got me 🤣
It was worth the patreon subscripton fee just for that.
Just because I remember as you are speaking about a certain German dictator, liver dumplings have nothing to do with liver, they are a form of dumpling made with flour in Bavaria. I know you also talked about it in the main feed episode at so point 😁
I would love an episode about Linus Pauling, I’ve read a lot about him in Paul Offit’s book and the fall from the top of science to the v bottom of alt med is maintenance phase fodder for sure
The same chapters have a lot about vitamins being very bad in some cases, including probably increasing some cancer’s mortality and prevalence when taking large-ish doses of vitamin A and E
“I’ll take creatine, I don’t give a FUCK!” - Michael Hobbes
Late to the party and like 15mins in, but a low carb diet for brain health is wild 😅
I desperately need the Christian diet books episode!! What is in Bod for God?? WHY does the devil want me fat? We need answers
Very late to the chat here but wanted to say that I’m happy you’re feeling better, Michael! I deal with chronic illnesses so I really empathize with the emotions and reactions you went through. It sounds like you maybe had some autoimmune stuff going on. If you’re curious about learning more about the world of autoimmune illnesses you should check out The Invisible Kingdom by Megan O’Rourke.
Good morning. I don’t normally post and I’m not sure where this comment belongs, but I just saw Aubrey’s documentary and want to say how much it moved me. Thank you!
I'm losing my mind over my current fatigue. It also feels like it's lasting forever. Taking breaks is always necessary 💕
Update: I found out I am pre-diabetic! I thought I would bring this info to this thread just to show that being skinny doesn't equal healthy. My sugar intake got out of control because I stopped drinking. I changed my diet immediately and cut as much added sugars as I could per doctors orders. As Aubrey and Mike say all the time: just eat well so that you feel good. 🩷
Okay so first of all I LOVE vaccines, they are life saving and incredibly safe. But it’s just like, a good idea to get vaccines when you’re feeling well and haven’t recently been sick. Vaccines get shot into your body and then your immune system is like hey, what this new thing? Do I need to fight it, or is it handing me an instruction manual, what’s going on? So for the like, 1-2 days that your body is thinking about this new thing, it’s kind of running a skeleton crew protecting your body. So if you are or were recently sick, your immune system is trying to do too much at once and it can let some lil sickness-causing stuff through the gate. And it’s not a big deal, I’ve definitely gotten vaccines when I shouldn’t have and been like ah fuck I’ll just feel crappy for 2 days but I wanna get my shot now, but for folks who dabble in anti-vax circles, getting a shot and then getting sick can be enough for them to be like IT WAS THE VACCINE and like, yeah maybe, kind of, in a way? Like your body was just trying to do too much at once and one of those things was learn this new vaccine thing, but they take the wrong lesson from it and are like NO MORE SHOTS AGAIN 🫠
I was sick for like a month and a half at the end of last year. Hmmm.
I'm only 12 minutes in and I have so much to say. First of all, I got my shingles and my HPV shot on the same day as well about 3 years ago and I ended up with an autoimmune disease called ITP. I'm not an anti-vaxer and I did get all my COVID vaccines, but it's actually legit that I have ITP probably because of the vaccinations. Also, regarding psychodiatetics this is around the time when Scientology was off the ground for a little while... They came into being from a book l Ron Hubbard wrote called Dianetics...and Scientology has a program called the purif I believe, where they megadose with vitamins and I kind of wonder if there's a literal connection with these people or if L. Ron Hubbard just stole this insane idea off of them because he did a lot of that.
DEAR GOD! Has anyone heard of or seen this TERRIBLE JUICE FAST buddy film!? My God the premise! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1227378/plotsummary/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
Worth a look for an episode? No moons on this road.
Catching up on stuff… I said what the fuck out loud when I heard “the Irish question.” I had to explain to my roommates what the first 50 minutes of this podcast was about.
I heard recently about a woman who gave up smoking by threatening herself to donate money to Nazis if she smoked again. It was implied though that the reason it worked was just that she started associating smoking with Nazis. Personally I just thought fuck that, Id just end up still smoking and giving money to Nazis, which would obviously suck.
So glad you’re feeling better, Michael!!! Please, can you do one about collagen and colostrum? I know I am just drinking magic powder but I need to be debunked!
Can you do one about Dr. Kellogg? He is super fascinating. I very much enjoyed my random stop at Adventist Village, where many of his health inventions were on display. I think I was the only "non-believer" there when I went 10 years ago and I still think about it way too often.
Could you please, please, do an episode about Huberman Lab?? The NYMag article that was published today describes an insane amount of insane behavior. He has a fake lab now that he’s famous and I’m sure so much fantasy pseudoscience in his show. We need to know why we should run away from any man who tells us on a date that he’s a huge fan of this guy.
My partner listens to him a lot so I would also really love an episode on him. (My partner is really nice and not into pushing weird internet nonsense onto me but his YouTube algorithm is very white British man in his 30s)
Whoa, I had the same kind of illnesses at the same time and for nearly the same length… I also live in Seattle. I wonder if we got the same bugs!
Me too! In Portland!
The "Michael..... Aub...rel" exchange at about 20 minutes in pleases me.
Still mid ep but Mike said “you’ve radicalized me, I’m just waiting for you to tell me —“ I yelled “it’s EUGENICS!”
Sorry, this isn’t a comment about this episode (although I did listen and, as always, really enjoyed it). I didn’t know where else I could say this. I just read the AARP summary of Oprah’s “special program” on ABC about her weight loss and weight shaming. I was deeply disappointed (but actually not that surprised) and cried for a solid ten minutes. I have a long rant about it but won’t take space here. I’m hoping that you two will have something to say about it. I love your podcast and bonus(!) episodes, your insight and genuine compassion. Thank you for talking about these issues and for all of the hard work you put into keeping us informed. And I have to say the research you do is incredible - so thorough and well-interpreted. Explaining science is hard! Thanks again. Take good care. Cathy
Thanks for posting. I stopped by to see if anyone was talking about it here on the MP Patreon. I would love the opportunity to talk about impressions and potential implications if M&A choose to discuss the Oprah special in a future episode.
Hilter?! 👀👀👀 So glad you are back and also never feel bad for taking a break when you need it! Thanks for another great episode
oh my god mike that sounds like when i had mono, it’s so frustrating being tired for so long, take the rest you need and don’t beat yourself up for trying to heal 💜
Same, I was rediagnosed with EBV after 6 months - in can last a really long time and stay dormant for years then come back.
Aubrey - I saw your movie during your break and I was so moved. Michael - I'm so glad you are better. You both make the world a better place. Thank you.
I see Oprah has a new special coming out soon - Shame, Blame and The Weight Loss Revolution. I am hopto hear y'all's thoughts!
Love it…placebo effect is still an effect!
Love you, love the podcast, but had to comment on one error. No idea if this is already been addressed, but Hitler was not a vegetarian. It is a famous lie that has been repeated for decades, and is thrown in the face of every vegetarian. His doctors strongly advised him to stop eating meat to cure his excessive flatulence, but he refused, kept eating meat, and, I suppose, kept farting away.
Hey there - this is a random place to put this because I don’t want to do it eg on Twitter. I’d really appreciate a MP analysis of all the science/junk science around trans health issues and trans kids health in particular. In the UK today it’s been announced that the NHS is no longer going to provide certain forms of treatment (I think until new treatment centres open & research established). I heard one of the Dr.s responsible for closing treatment down on the radio saying feelings related to gender are a “symptom” of something else and not simply gender related in their own right. Everyone will know how politicised and toxified the treatment of children has become, especially in the UK. I’d really appreciate some health science related analysis and discussion from you guys as I trust you to be thorough. However I know looking at this issue and hearing about it can be rough and people are suffering. I trust M&A to deal with it sensitively. Glad you’re back!!
I’ve listened to that - love all of Mike’s output! But I’m thinking I’d like to hear about the science and health info from both M&A and I trust them to do a great job of it, if they can bear it!
Way at the bottom of this article the authors state that folks at "normal weight" have a HIGHER RATE of the cancers discussed than obese people (pardon the term). https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/11/1237152025/metabolic-syndrome-cancer-risk-high-blood-sugar-obesity#:~:text=Metabolic%20syndrome%20and%20higher%20levels,cancers%2C%22%20the%20authors%20conclude.
But hey, as long as you use the headline to throw fat people under the bus
So thrilled you’re back!!!
Thank you for this! I have bipolar disorder and chronic migraines, which many people assume will respond to the ketogenic diet, which as you covered before was designed to control epilepsy in children. Not migraines and mental illness. But I have read in many places how my brain beyond bathed in lovely ketones instead of running on nasty carbohydrates can be a cure. I tried it and it didn't work and just made my eating disorder worse. As you've covered before, some would say that's on me because I didn't do it right. Medications are truly miraculous and often work where the right diet (which will conveniently lead to the "right" weight) do not. At least for me.
I once again am just going to keep commenting how devastated I would be if this podcast ever ends. You both are amazing and this is my favorite podcast on the planet.
In week two of a flu thing atm, so happy to see annoying Brit chef Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall in the news once more for criticising the government’s failure to “tackle the obesity crisis.” I wish I had some way to tell him that all he’s doing with #BritainsFatFight is contributing to a constant fatphobic conversation. Great to see myself being blamed once again for bankrupting the NHS!
Either my tastes have changed or this show has lost its magic... 🤔
I think your tastes changed
Glad to see you back in my main feed! I live in London and I'm seeing ads for the book 'Ultra Processed People' by Chris Van Tulleken EVERYWHERE and it's got so many reviews, top of which frustratingly is the 'Diary of a CEO' guy. IBCK crossover...? Also, will you guys ever do an episode on electrolytes? I found out literally today that they're essentially just... minerals?
Oh man right - I have a contact who has been arguing with Chris Van Tulleken - professor who's related to my friend. Guest episode? Prof Janet Cade - not kidding can link you up! She has BEEF with him.
So glad you're baaaaack! I literally yelped with glee when I saw there was a new podcast then realized that probably indicated I should support y'all financially finally and so I went and did that 😍
“continents floatin around, what the fuck are you talking about” might be my new favorite Michael Hobbes quote.
I just wanted to say that I'm excited you're back and I'm incredibly excited to see Aubrey's documentary next week, at Portland's Hollywood Theater!! I love that they put specific seats measurements on their website. I can't wait! ❤️
I hope you enjoy it as much as a lot of us did! 🫶
I never commented here before, but I'm just listened to the covid conspiracies episode and I'm so glad yall are back. I work in a large hospital in Texas as a pharmacy tech and it was so crazy how many right wing pharmacists were saying that ivermectin was a miracle drug. 😅
That must have been an insane time to live through for you, omg.
My dad is a medical grifter, he’s got 37,000 followers on insta and he does the thing where he has a doctorate but not a medical doctor but still makes health claims. ask me anything 🙃😭
I've missed listening to you both so much. I'm glad you're feeling better Michael. 😃
Mike- if you see this I am so glad you’re feeling better! and I wanted to say your description of how it can feel when dealing with long term illness was really meaningful! Thank you for talking about it. One episode idea- what is the truth about the “glucose goddess”! No idea what her deal is haven’t really looked into it, but I’ve seen so many different strong opinions!
Gosh I've missed you two! Glad you are feeling better Michael!
What a great episode! I sure have missed you two. (And hope you’re feeling much better, Mike.)
Love the episode. Surprised you didn't go with a zombie related opener ("brain diets"). Especially since it sounds like Mike has been a zombie for the last couple months.
Ideas for episodes: -Optavia: a legendary Pokemon that's both diet and MLM scheme! - Aubrey and Mike watch Love is Blind - tips for getting involved in local organizing/social justice/advocacy stuff - if Books Could Kill/Maintenance Crossover of any kind
I had a psychologist tell me that there was some evidence that changing diet did allow some schizophrenics to go off meds but her example was anecdotal and I don’t have schizophrenia so I didn’t look into it. :P
Knowing Mike’s dad is a dentist makes the middle school Mike opting out of braces so much funnier 💀
Wait, you got sick again after the taste test? Does that mean the immuno-elixir tincture DOESN'T work?? 🥺
I love this podcast so much, and I cackled at the Copenhagen story! 🖤🖤
Omg me too I was crying 😂😂😂 🚲
Bruh I would have been there after a few days! I am glad you're feeling better
This is deeply random, and only tangentially related to the episode, but this episode somehow unlocked an early adolescent memory that I thought the MP crowd would appreciate. One of my mom's fad diet things involved putting up pictures of beautiful (and thin!) women in like bikinis and underwear up on the fridge and mirrors to like 'motivate'(shame) her into eating less. I remember as a young deeply repressed queer teen being like 'you know, normally my mom's diet things just make me sad, but I kind of like this one. I don't know. Something's different this time.'
Love this!!
Mikeeee, never apologize for needing time off for your own health! We want both of you to be well so you can enjoy making this podcast! Sliding in with a request for a possible future topic: would you two consider covering red light therapy as an entire thing? It's so popular in the skincare space right now and I just had a friend say it helped her loosen her jaw. That sounds incredible to me and I know y'all touched on how red light was used in The End of Men, but it's just so pervasive and has so many grifty claims I'd love for the deep dive from you two!
Ooo yes I'd like someone to do the research on this because I'm very close to buying a red light mask
I laughed so hard at Michael’s Copenhagen story that I gave myself the hiccups. Happy to see MP in my feed again. 💖
I thought Michael was going to reveal that he had ME-CFS when he talked about those symptoms. So many people have it now since COVID. Glad it turned out to be something simpler! Stay well both, thanks for another great episode.
So glad Michael is feeling better and is fully vaxxed. Grateful for you both
So happy to have you both back!!!! Life wasn't the same without you!! PS had the same OMG moment with my shingles vax as Michael! I was SO sick after it. I'm still pro vax, though! Weighing odds, in the off chance it causes side effects, it's worth it. Gettin the shingles is no joke! So sorry you felt so crummy for so long, Michael!
Happy to hear an episode again ❤️ have missed you guys!
Thank you guys - you are doing such a great thing. I’m grateful I found you 🙏
So lovely to hear you both. Glad you were able to rest, Mike.
Mike describing my Crohn's fatigue. Welcome to the experience of chronic illness! It BLOWS
I need a whole episode on Aubrey just reacting to everything Michael is saying
Amazing episode as usual! Just want to add: WE MISSED YOU GUYS! ❤️❤️
Yikes this takes me back to being put on the GAPS diet as a teen for an asd and mental health ‘cure’ and having to eat a ton of bone broth soups. Turned me off soup for life lol
I did this too. So much broth…😩
the biographers of aDoLf hItLeR
Okay, never mind vs scientists, where is my flat earther vs small earther debate?
“HITLER EYES EMOJI EYES EMOJI EYES EMOJI???” might be my new favorite
Nutrient deficient + caffeine = alcoholic is anything anyone could tell you about grad students (as a current grad student)
I was anemic for a long time and people constantly tested me for everything but anemia. The iron supplements I take saved my life. But it’s not a cure all.
Mike - so glad to hear your voice (though I hear it on your other pod too). I’m glad you prioritized your own recovery, not work!
Somehow it seems way more common on YouTube than it was on tv to take sick-leave or a mental-health sabbatical, and I love it: set these good examples please.
A lot of people saying stuff like “Michael you had covid” really missed the “Ask three questions before you give advice” portion of the episode huh
I think a lot of people are really concerned about how many people are being infected and re-infected with COVID without understanding the potential lifelong implications (mostly because they're not being reported widely). Granted, I'm literally exactly who you're talking about because I immediately jumped into the comments to say that and also have yet to finish the episode, so you could be making an excellent point and I could be justifying my actions out of defensiveness, haha. But I do think most of us have really good intentions - it's awful to live with a chronic illness, and if I can help even one person avoid that by spreading information, I think it's worth trying. It is good to be reminded that unsolicited advice isn't always welcome, though.
Always so happy to hear these two voices together again!! Have you considered moving to a season model for the main feed to ease the burden a little bit? You could just announce the new season coming out whenever you've been able to bank enough episodes (8ish?)
+1 for the seasons idea!
Michael, people just want to moan, we love you regardless 🥰🥰🥰
Dude, Michael, you had Covid! This is what Covid19 does! It destroys your immune system, so you are wayyyyy more susceptible to illness.
I had this same thing and it wasn't covid. I had a huge viral panel done and it wasn't anything typical. Mine was Haemophilus influenzae. It kicked my ass from the end of Dec until I was hospitalized for it in early feb.
"I hope no one listens to this" "hhmmmmm okay"
There’s so much joy in your voices in the episode! Sounds like you had fun ❤️
HUGE shoutout to Mike for getting his HPV vaccine as an adult! My mom died of cervical cancer (one of the many cancers prevented by the vaccine), so I try to advocate for adults who missed it growing up to get it ASAP! Thanks for sharing that with the pod and spreading the word :)
Me too! My mom died of cervical cancer and now I'm a major advocate for people getting the HPV vaccine! A lot of people don't know that you can now get it up until age 45!
Re: Michael's experience with vitamin B and depressive episodes... I am the biggest vitamins are a dumb scam person out there. Do I believe vitamins are important? Yes. Take a multivitamin. Fine. The line of designer vitamins meant to supercharge some aspect of your health or whatever? Bullshit. The urge to tell people who want to talk to me about this is overwhelming. HOWEVER, I live with bipolar disorder and have had treatment-resistant depressive episodes for years. I've been hospitalized numerous times and each time I am hospitalized I am given a B12 shot because I have a low level and urged to eat more foods that contain B12. Finally, on my last hospitalization I was prescribed a B12 supplement. I figured okay, I'm eating the foods and not getting it. Maybe this is a thing. Lo and behold, my meds to treat my depression start working. The chronic exhaustion/lethargy lifts and I'm able to start getting better. It turns out I have a B12 deficiency because I do not absorb the vitamin through food. I found out my mother has the same condition. At no point in any of the hospitalizations, including the one in which the prescribed me the supplement, did anyone tell me the correlation between B12 deficiency and depression symptoms and that this might be contributing to the problem. 5 years of this and no one once said ANYTHING. This doesn't mean I don't still have bipolar disorder. I my case it was simply compounding the problem. I had a point but I got angry and forgot it it, so my new point is fuck doctors (particularly psychiatrists), but Michael's friend's B12 thing is not a placebo effect situation. I did not believe the vitamin thing was going to do anything at all. It was life-changing. But vitamins are still a scam. Unless you have bloodwork done that reveals a medical deficiency... you're fine.
I was in a similar boat as far as being a "vitamins are a dumb scam" person, until years of chronic pain and fatigue finally led me to a doctor who tested me for vitamin deficiencies. Turns out, I was deficient in B12, which (after much more testing and monitoring) led my doctor and subsequent rheumatologist to diagnose me with an autoimmune disease that causes (among many other things) your body to not be able to absorb B12 through food or supplements. I get B12 shots now, which are hit or miss for me, but overall my quality of life has improved. Like you said, it's not a cure; I'll have this disease for the rest of my life! But it was part of the reason the years of physical therapy and pain management were not improving my situation. The thing is, I already have an autoimmune disease, vitiligo, which causes skin depigmentation. Presence of one autoimmune disease is often a marker for, or makes you more susceptible to, developing other autoimmune diseases. However, most doctors are NOT looking at what they consider "dermatological issues" when it comes to chronic diseases, so I was undiagnosed for many years. Now I'm angry too, so I will join you in saying fuck *most* doctors, except for the ones who solved my mystery and took a chance with this treatment. I also still think vitamins are overall scammy, and would never take anything "extra" unless prescribed by my doctor based on my bloodwork. I'm glad to hear you are doing well and the B12 was life-changing for you!
Hearing you two makes me soooo happy! So glad you’re back!!!
Oh my goodness when Aubrey said “Linus Pauling,” I immediately said, “oh no!” He did so much for our understanding of the structure of the atom! but then…I just really think when physicists decide they’re going to get into biology, they need to be a little cautious.
I mean, he's far from being most embarrassing career post-Nobel... Look at Watson and Crick (tbf, stealing research meant for them the award itself was also embarrassing)
Hey Michael and Aubrey, glad everyone’s feeling much better. Just to say Michael, I had almost the exact same illness as you in early Dec 2023. Tested for c19 at the time, negative. Kinda got better after a week then by early Jan 2024 was exhausted, in bed a lot, easily overwhelmed for weeks, still recovering. Went to my GP, he explained that Lateral Flow test by now due to mutation give very unreliable negatives (positives still very reliable) and to seemingly get better then get ill out of no where is classic Long Covid. So I’ve got Long Covid. You might have had Long Covid too 🤷♀️ hope you continue to improve
Mike it’s all good we will be here when you come back.
Did the fake Dr with the talk show inspire the show Frasier?
I feel confident in saying that I and my fellow post viral fatigue/long covid/glandular fever peeps send their tired love to Mike. That shit is real. And can lead to ME/CFS so please rest when your body says rest!
Hey I’m a nurse, and I was taught it’s generally recommended to postpone getting vaccines if you are fresh off recovering from illness and your immune system has been temporarily compromised! Might have contributed to prolonging your recovery from the first illness Mike, or made you more susceptible to catching a second.
Was just thinking about this. I’ve been asked if I’m feeling well on the day of a vaccine before and it was more than just small talk!
"But it's actually an adolescent rat. His name was Timothy. He ate too many of the candy bars. Now he is an alcoholic." 😂
I'm here to ask for Timothy the adolescent alcoholic rat merch. Welcome back and hope everyone stays well!
I'm so happy to have this episode to unwind from my day. 6 min in and your laughter is healing me! Thank you.
Mike I genuinely can't tell if you accidentally left your audio track on a different speed setting to Aubrey's or if you're really just talking that fast. Either way I love it, delightful, never change.
He should really consider getting more alcohol to balance out all that caffeine
Folks, you can have post-viral disease from lots of viruses, not just COVID. Fatigue lasting long after a viral infection has been documented since well before 2020. Mike mentioned doing “all the tests” so I’m pretty sure he’d know if he had COVID. I still have vestibular issues from a mystery virus I got in 2018!
Except negative covid tests have become incredibly unreliable due to mutations of the virus.
The way I GASPED at book title 1, hahaha
Mike that sounded like Covid to me... I am so sorry, that was my covid experience over christmas
Michael you had COVID. Then you got long COVID. My goodness.
When I was 20 I got super depressed and was sleeping 18 hours a day and failing all my classes. I kept going to the student health center for help and they said I was depressed and referred me to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist ordered a vitamin D test, among other tests, and 30-100 was normal. Mine was 6. I was so satisfied. And felt a lot better within a few weeks. Still failed all my classes that semester though. Kept the psychiatrist too, because I genuinely had issues outside the vitamin D.
Overdosing vitamin D can damage your liver, the comic artist Neal Adams is a Small Earth guy, and I know exactly what you mean about "this is now my existence", Michael.
Glad to hear Mike is feeling better! I was wondering if when you guys start doing main feed episodes again if you’d consider one on Jay Shetty? The Guardian article that came out about him today was really wild
Fascinating article! Audible keeps trying to push his book on me but I had no idea who he was! He would be a good case for the Duped podcast-there are a lot of red flags there, notably the BS back story.
Guys…I’m sure Mike has thought about or talked to a doctor about long Covid or mono…
Glad you're feeling better Michael, mystery illness with no end in sight sounds absolutely terrifying. I am also a very anxious person about my health and it's the fucking worst. Hope you continue to feel better!
Sorry bud. Stream her book if you haven't already.
I’m a big fan of you guys in general and this isn’t going to stop me from enjoying your work. But as a chronically ill person, hearing that my life was your worst case scenario does kind of suck. Probably hits a nerve due to my own internalized ableism… this was my worst case scenario too. And I’ve spent over a decade building a new life within these confines. It’s been hard work but I like my life now. If you do become chronically ill I hope you can like your life too.
What a kind, precise, and elegant response. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even think about that, yet I have had to remove podcasts from my feed for calling for the end of fat people. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
the blackmail diet is literally a bit on Nathan for You lmao (tho with embarrassing photos, not giving money to nazis wtf)
But it was an antisemitic photo!
Did you see that Oprah is leaving the board of Weight Watchers because she is now taking an unnamed (lol) weight loss drug? Would love to hear your take Aubrey and Mike!
Mike becoming an antivaxxer is a real M. Night Shyamalan-esque twist
The blackmail diet reminded me of that episode of Nathan for You where he had the participants take embarrassing pictures of themselves for motivation. Anybody else? 😂
My friend has had severe depression her whole life that turned out to be caused by a genetic inability to process folate properly and high dose l-methylfolate + B12 has made an unbelievable difference.
Michael, my partner came down with mono and covid at the same time in January. Once the covid was gone he still had several cycles of fatigue and fever like you describe. I'm curious if they did a blood culture for mono? I live in Eugene and it seems like there's a slight mono outbreak here. Anyway, i'm super glad you took the time off that you needed!!!
Also I work in archaeology and it's clearly true that the earth used to be smaller because all the stuff is underground.
I'm just thinking about how much I used to love those stories about Susan trying the one thing and how it completely cured all her problems. I sort of miss them.
1) So glad you took the time you needed 2) so glad to see you 3) so excited to see our boy Linus Pauling make his first appearance in the MP canon. This man has been a bug in my ear since college and I can't wait to hear him get thrashed.
Oh my gosh at first I thought the third book was the "Black Male Diet" and the idea of a black man donating to Nazis to motivate himself to lose weight was WILD
Same! 😂
Please source all of your future episode subjects from QUACKWATCH!
This might not be the right crowd for this comment to resonate, but as an herbalist I just feel like redeeming wild cherry bark since it’s a great herb. The issue with supplement culture is that it takes an ingredient out of its context, since the way to treat a cough is different based on whether it’s a dry or wet cough, the consistency of the mucus, where (throat, lungs, chest) the cough is, whether it’s worse at night etc. So one person’s cough might benefit from wild cherry bark while another person might need licorice root or mullein leaf. And then the herb would probably also be part of a formula with synergistic herbs depending on your constitution and other symptoms. I love this podcast because as part of the alternative wellness space I hear a lot of fatphobic garbage and ableism as well as cultural appropriation, and it’s so awesome to have Mike and Aubrey’s perspectives! I only offer this defense of wild cherry just since herbalism is so sacred and ancestral for me and I want to do it justice where I can, since often herbs are judged as efficacious or not without the guidance of a real herbalist. And I also appreciate Mike’s very understandable disappointment when it didn’t work and there’s obviously no pressure to start believing in herbalism if it’s not right for you.
Thanks for commenting this!! So important to remember that just because there’s a ton of quackery in this field doesn’t mean all more holistic healing methods don’t work. It makes total sense to me that something like cherry bark could work in a specific context with the knowledge of someone who knows what they’re doing.
The Intrinsic/ Extrinsic rewards thing has been debunked so many times - and it is harmful. They thought it was additive ($50 , whatever) but actually, what happens is you end up substituting intrinsic motivation with extrinsic... the problem with extrinsic motivation is that you have to keep giving people $50 ...
Michael - this sounds like Long COVID. Might be helpful to connect with other folks in the LC community.
OMG you guys have to do a Linus Pauling episode he's insane
the story of Mike's road-rage insult during a STATE FUNERAL in Copenhagen had me in literal tears LMFAO!!! Hope you're feeling better!
I've missed you guys on your main feed, but this isn't your full time job, and I just want you to be happy and healthy and record when it makes sense for both of you! 🥰
I'm glad you're feeling better Mike! You have one of my favorite brains
Michael, you may have Long Covid. Be really careful with your recovery!
Best intro ever. CoreTEX
I have a great story for you about doctors. I used to be a 911 dispatcher on a college campus. We had a man call in because a woman had gone into labor. My coworker kept trying to get him to answer her questions and all he would say is "I'm Dr. So and so! Send the paramedics!" After he said this about 4 times, she said "paramedics are enroute. In the meantime, I will leave her in your capable hands, doctor" to which he replied "wait! I'm a doctor of English!"
oh no, that's wild
This blackmale / bribe diet rules sound like the pitch for the biggest loser
Don't feel bad for any breaks you take! Health is important.
Michael did you have mono???
New maintenance phase episode is the cure to MY depression
Just to note, the "don't go see a fat doctor" take is alive and well and being broadcast to millions courtesy Andrew D. Huberman on twitter 4 weeks ago: "I think it's fair to ask if the MD or scientist or public health official saying to do X or not do Y looks and sounds healthy and vital. I avoid going to a dentist with bad teeth. What do you think? I sense diverging opinions." Emphasis on the "looks." What a tool.
Ugh. In contrast, fatness is one of the top 5 qualities I *look for* in a doctor, with the hope that they will be less likely to believe prevailing nonsense about fatness & fat people.
So, I was in the mental health field (prior to going on like a 5 years long experience of what Mike was going through. I feel your pain), and I used to work at a family-run community mental health center that, among other things, provided long-term care/ housing for adults with Severe Disabling Mental Illnesses. But the owner was into all this weird diet shit and enforced low- carb diets and other interesting dietary changes (at one point they weren't supposed to microwave things?) on the folks. Once I got into an administrative position, I tried looking to see if there's anything legally against this kind of stuff (so I could strong-arm the owner into changing the policy) and there's not. Protections for people with disabling mental illnesses are sadly lacking in MANY ways. And I just think it's so fucked up that one person had the ability to control all of these adult's diets because of their disability. Anyway, that's what this episode has me thinking about.
I'm moved & grateful you made the stealthy effort to try to protect these vulnerable people from dietary quackery!
Singing to myself in a tiny voice every time you said PsychoDietetics: "q'est qué c'est, fafafaafa fafafafaaafa"
I keep trying to smoosh psychodiatetics into the same number of syllables as Psycho Killer. Impossible, obviously, but I’m gonna keep singing it anyway.
OMG I got put on one of these for ADHD/Autism as a kid! No ketchup allowed only catsup, and it never worked
I work in a healthcare field that sees many families who have children with Autism & SO many of them are obsessed with these diets as a means of "curing" them...it's very disheartening.
haha yes to the "nobody will listen if we tell them to stop drinking coffee!" i quit smoking well over a decade ago. i also no longer drink, thanks to my antidepressants. i joke that if it weren't for coffee and sweets, i wouldn't have any vices left.
dang! all the years we took my brother with schizophrenia to psychiatrists we should have been taking him to an allergist 🥲🥲 too bad he’s dead and we can’t change course 🫠
Ok so I'm only 1/2 through the episode but I just want to point out that vitamin deficiency can cause all sorts of issues, some of them presenting as mental health issues. I have anxiety and depression that was so bad I was suicidal. I talked to my DR and she tested my vit D, iron, and B12. All of which were in the toilet. I started taking vit D, iron, and getting B12 shots and felt so much better after a couple months. It was crazy how long I felt so bad and no one bothered to check to see if any of my blood work was off. I still deal with depression and anxiety but it has never been as bad as it was. So, it didn't make it disappear but it really did help a lot.
Yes, and despite what was implied, most docs do not test for any of this routinely. I've had bariatric surgery and have numerous chronic illnesses, and have to take potassium, B6, B12, and D. I feel better when I take them, but not so much better that I don't still have anxiety, depression, and all my other issues.
Mono?
I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, in part bc I was dealing with a lot of fatigue and very apathetic. A few years and a lot of struggling later, I was finally diagnosed with Narcolepsy. Suddenly my fatigue and apathy were no longer a problem! On a somewhat related note: Mike’s fatigue symptoms have me wondering if he needs to look into sleep disorders and their symptoms. Sleep disorders are massively under diagnosed (usually misdiagnosed as mental illnesses), so if you have fatigue problems, do some research and ask your doctor about chronic fatigue syndrome and other possible conditions.
I wonder if he also shares a diagnosis of sleep apnea or something close (so many ppl go years w/o realizing it or in denial bc of myths like “thin ppl can’t have it” or “you’re too young” 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️)
I hope Mike is feeling better. 🥺 Ik Managing long term health conditions with no end in sight sucks. 😔 (As someone w/ bad sleep apnea who’s been denied care bc doctors just couldn’t understand why I was complaining when vitals showed “i was fine”, then attributed my “so called tiredness/headaches” & constant 3am/5am wake-ups to wrong things (since “there’s no way you can have osa at your age” 🤦♂️🤬 or blamed my weight/diet/posture - I was even told to count calories again by 1 doc ☠️☠️☠️)
I had to take a break to read about continental drift because I love academic drama. Also, listening to this while sick, I really feel for you, Mike.
Omg-- my creationist bigoted pastor dad LOVED small earth theory. He had a whole thing where, if the earth was smaller and the core was smaller, that would somehow change carbon dating and the earth could ABSOLUTELY only be 6000 years old *just like God said.* It was also connected to Noah's Flood somehow. I went to college having self-taught biology from a homeschooling creationist textbook. Good times. Anyway, I haven't heard the words "small earth theory" in decades so you reawakened a core memory for me, haha.
glad to know i’m not the only one in war mode on my bike… i let out all my frustrations on drivers/cars in the bike lanes 😆🚲🖕🚗
It happened to me yesterday! I yelled at a pick up truck parked smack dab in the middle of the bike lane
Long Covid maybe????
Love this! But from the title I thought it was going to be something like 75 hard, a diet that includes 75 minutes of dialy exercise, and a whopping 10 minutes of reading.
They did that in another episode, I cant remember which. Unless I imagined it lol
sorry you were so sick. the pandemic has done a number on people's immune systems, so even "not covid" is an awful experience. keep resting and taking care of yourself.
I'm right there with you, Mike, on losing my mind. Got a virus in August, am still sick. Fever, weight loss, headaches, liver problems, kidney problems. All imaging clear, all autoimmune and infectious disease labs negative. Been to a dozen doctors, biopsies, CTs, MRIs and nothing. No answers. I'm about ready to try any wacky thing. And on that note, on the topic of this episode, I've never had a doctor NOT tell me that eating better and losing weight would improve my anxiety and depression, except my current PCP, who is amazing.
Friend of mine was in & out of the hospital recently for “mysterious virus”. After quite a few weeks they finally figured out it was mono. For how much Michael said he was sleeping & for how long it lasted it’s possible unless a test ruled that out.
Maybe this status update should be shared with the main feed, like on Twitter or Instagram, so they don't think the podcast is dead. Especially since they aren't getting a new ep this month.
Yeah—I know from lurking on the reddit that a lot of non subscribers feel a little hurt that there haven’t been any main feed updates
God save our Michael Hobbes 🥺
You should look at the newer book “Brain Energy”’ by Dr Chris Palmer.
I had a mental breakdown yesterday so to see that a) there’s a new episode and b) it’s about this topic is comforting to my soul. Thank you Mike & Aubrey!!!!!!!
Michael you don’t need to apologize 😂😭
Sorry to hear you were so sick Michael!
I've also not been googling vitamin D truthers so I'm on tenterhooks waiting! 😂 I can wait
I’m sorry you were so sick, Michael! I had a similar thing happen from late April through sometime in the summer last year. Went to urgent care thinking I had strep and it turned out to be mononucleosis - which the doctor only tested me for because my glands were so swollen. She was shocked that I had it as I’m in my mid-40s and also had it in high school. It kept getting better and worse so I went to an infectious diseases specialist for further testing that summer. It was inconclusive; I no longer had mono but I had high mono antibodies. I’m better now but it was incredibly frustrating and scary. (Note: I’ve only had Covid once in early June 2022, and the only after-effects were hair loss.)
I had mono as a teenager and it remains the longest time I've been sick at a stretch. Similar thing happened to me - we thought it was strep, but the test came back negative. Thought it might be a false negative so they gave me antibiotics anyway, and I broke out in a rash which happens with mono (this is an antibiotic I've taken before and since without that reaction.) It was "mild" as mono cases go, but I still remember how crappy I felt and just feeling like it was never going to end.
Ok… my brain is broken and thought they were discussing the “Black Male” diet and not the “Blackmail” diet for about 4 whole minutes 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Reminds me of a conversation I had with my cousin about the "male gaze"
Michael! I had the same sickness! It was terrible. Glad to hear your better not an anti vaxxer lol 🫣
Vitamin B deficiency is usually one of the things that people presenting with depression symptoms are getting tested for, at least in my experience, but you need health care providers who know what diagnostics to run.
Sorry to hear about your sickness Micheal. My partner and I had almost exactly the same thing as you describe between Oct-December. My partner is still dealing with a lot of fatigue, and on the waiting list for a long Covid/chronic fatigue clinic. Feels like there’s been a lot of one-two punch type illnesses going around anecdotally atm. Great to hear you both again!
i’m on very high dose vitamin b2 (300mg riboflavin) for migraine prevention! weirdly my dentist did not prescribe it
As soon as I heard 'Linus Pauling' I knew this was going to go to some weird places
YUP. He's a classic example of "guy wins Nobel prize, decides he's an expert on EVERYTHING now." At least he was (relatively) harmless (at least to my knowledge), especially compared to the guy who invented PCR and took a hard left into climate denialism and garbage views on HIV/AIDS, to say nothing of James Watson and his racism/misogyny/all of the things.
man, wouldn't it be nice if i could fix my depression with food...
It sounds like Michael experienced crip time during what sounds like long COVID.
Yes exactly!
I've been under some ¿mystery illness? since December (all tests normal! Hooray and also not hooray!) and in all honesty I could slip into any form of wackiness at any moment. Life altering symptoms combined with a lack of medical information is strong incentive to find and cling to *anything* that gives a sense of control! It's wonderful to hear you again but look after yourselves, please! x
Not Micheal's anti-vax arch
Michael, it sounds like you could have Long Covid, even if a rapid test came back negative when you were sick (rapid tests have gotten less effective over time as Covid evolves, plus most people do rapid tests ineffectively without realizing it). Pushing yourself too hard right now could have serious consequences
Came to say immediately that sounds like long covid
I live in Tacoma and I got the same thing Mike did, and so did my friend. I got it at the end of December and it went away and then came back and then went away and came back for about 10 weeks. My friend’s lasted from October to late January. It’s a bad cold.