April Bonus: "Sex, Love & Goop"

It is SO difficult as a woman to navigate hetero sex. In my experience, men tend to think that women’s bodies are the same and if something that worked (or that they thought worked) on a previous partner but doesn’t do it for you, then that is your fault. The best I’ve ever had was a guy who had absolutely no sexual experience and came in with the mindset of learning everything from scratch.

There's this design/room makeover show on Netflix called How To Build a Sex Room that sounds pretty similar to this show but with more diversity and I love it so much, it's something we need more of and I really recommend watching it. There's older and younger couples, same-sex couples, kinky or vanilla; and it's just really sweet and lovely

Aw man Aubrey should really shout out whenever she guests on other things. I would love to follow. XD signed me, not really following social media ever, but still obsess over this podcast

I didn't read through ALL of the comments so I don't know if someone already mentioned this, but a lot of straight women have sex issues related to early-life sex trauma, either incest, rape, or other unwanted sexual contact as a child or young adult. In adult relationships, these women may desire physical contact but find intercourse to be frightening or painful. Additionally, they might find it extremely difficult to talk about it as they don't want to make their partners feel bad/guilty or feel as though they are continuing the abuse... or they find intercourse triggering... or they have been made to believe that expressing sexual desire means that they are a "whore/slut" or that they had not "really" been assaulted. No amount of sex play is going to make these women feel safe or increase sexual desire. They really need an experienced therapist to help them find safety in their bodies again.

This is my new favorite way to confirm reality TV 👌

Reiki but third base omgggg

I will say, I feel like when I talk openly about sex with my straight female friends, they clearly think I'm too crass and giving TMI. I'm like...this is part of life, how can we not talk about it?

There’s a show called couples therapy on showtime that kind of is what Michael described as wanting to see!

My brothers had gerbils and they always ate the babies.

I'm listening to Apocalypse Cow now and as a former pet care worker I just have to say (maybe tune out Aubrey?)...hamsters default state is cannibalism. The vast majority of adult hamsters and some younger hamsters cannot be safely housed together. They will eat each other. I personally witnessed it more with the gerbils (they can be house together sometimes, but not all get along), but the dwarf and robo hamsters definitely did it occasionally too. Hamsters are also naturally omnivores, unlike every animal except humans mentioned in this episode. It's not unnatural for them to eat meat.

omg there is nowhere to comment on stitcher but michael just said TRIPLEFRIVOULOUS

I just moved to Germany and I was wondering if Mike had context for the weird “nutri-score” on EVERYTHING at the grocery store (or at least at Edeka)? It’s super obviously color-coded as “bad or good” along with “A B C D E” but there is absolutely no context! It’s just there. So weird. It just feels like a weird way to make people “eat healthier” when they start labelling walnuts as a B-rated. Freaking raw walnuts. Edit: grammar

Not Goop, but "fat shaming cause airplanes" https://www.tiktok.com/@boberryvip/video/7235507435237215534?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=6912851264091375109

I also just heard you on Science Friday in my car and you kicked ass and sounded brilliant! Ive already binged every episode and my brain gave me a little dopamine hit when I realized "omg I get to hear Aubrey talk more! BONUS!" Thank you <3

I just read the book, The Wellness Trap, and felt so informed as I knew most of the info because of this podcast (would still recommend as it’s a good read)! Thank you both for hosting my all time favorite podcast—I look forward to it every week. I wonder if you could do an episode on Walter Willet and the Harvard Guide for Healthy Eating??

Aubrey! I just flipped on the radio in my car and it was Science Friday, and when they said they were going to be talking about weight loss and health I was like, "Oh no, here we go again ...." But no! Beautifully done interview to a perhaps largely new audience. Brava!

Hey would you do an episode on Noom? I keep getting ads for it (I've already tried it and didn't stick with it so no thanks). Noom claims to help you keep weight off but considering basically every diet fails I'm very dubious about their claim.

I'm not particularly surprised by this but of course sweetener industry opposes. Unlike agriculture, I doubt there will be special protections provided to sweetener companies https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/well/eat/sweeteners-weight-loss-who.html

Chiming in to mention how I didn't think I would ever hear about the Alar Scare on MP! This was a very big moment in my early childhood being from a Central Washington agriculture family. My dad has never forgiven Meryl Streep (but probably for various reasons at this point).

Re: The Rise of Veggie Libel Mike should have said Gwyneth killed people *with her vagina* ... then it's just a cultural firestorm!

Off topic but I’m wondering if Mike/Aubrey saw the recent Vanity Fair article on the “medical medium” (the celery juice guy). Very disturbing and maybe worth a bonus episode on sometimes disturbing consequences of people actually believing these hacks

I just watched the first episode and the whole time Rama was describing what he likes about felicitas i felt physical pain ahtriaefdjadjklfas

Just popping in here after listening to Mad Cow ep to request a content warning for "you may not want to do this one while you're eating" 😅🥴 I'm scrolling through this feed for a palette cleanser so I can finish dinner

Listening to the Mad Cow episode, and it’s fascinating because if you asked me what Mad Cow disease is, I would say exactly what Oprah’s guest said - it comes from cows eating cows. What a sticky idea. Now I wonder if Oprah’s segment on it - whether directly or indirectly - is where that comes from. Also Aubrey, I had a big laugh when you talked about the local barbecue place that has an adorable pig trying to sell you pork meat. I’m from Alabama originally, and that’s such a common thing there that a local comedian from my hometown did a whole bit on how the more the pig mascot makes you feel upset that he’s selling his own meat to eat, the better the barbecue there is. 😂

I really loved this episode- the ending rang so true for me. My husband and I attempted couples therapy and it ultimately did not help us. This is reality for a lot of couples, but you’re right that it’s not portrayed often. I’m all for more portrayal of positive breakups. Not that it’s not devastating, but that people can do it amicably.

I wish the quiz didn’t cost money!! 😩😭 I wanted to know haha

Enjoyed this one as always, Mike & Aubrey! I was thinking, a great episode might be a deep dive into the lawsuits against Meta/Instagram regarding the app’s promotion of disordered eating/ED content. Could be combined with the perpetual diet culture displayed on Tik Tok and the potential implications of that!

So when can we expect beanie baby vulva merch?

This got me thinking about this energy work thing I went to with a couple friends and it was pretty much a room full of people hyperventilating for 45 minutes. The guy running it was pretty good looking and most of the people there were really good looking women. The "orgasms" in the room were off the rails. I was crying because I felt nauseous and dizzy. He only talked to the loudest energy orgasmers and they all decided to do a private session later lol

Liked most of the episode but I wish you had been more critical and discussed risks w sex work etc.

This was interesting! I am aroace myself so doesnt directly apply to me, but it's shocking how *little* conversation people have on this topic, vs queer communities, which as you say, are pretty upfront about "hey what are you looking for? What makes you feel good?" The ace community talks a lot about different kinds of intimacy precisely because a lot of aces don't want sex or are indifferent towards it, and what alternatives you can do that still make you feel good and close to your partner.

Scared/excited to listen to this, and hoping for another Caprice shoutout. Let's not let the Cheshire Housewives disappear from our collective memories.

Great episode guys, really loved it! I haven’t looked in the rest of the comments but speaking of Goop adjacent things, have you seen the recent Vanity Fair article about the medical medium and his assistant who died of cancer?!?

I asked ChatGPT to write a poem for the beanie baby tag of the beanie baby vulva that will be distributed across the US and this is what it wrote: Introducing Vee, the beanie baby bold, A shape that some might find quite untold, But don't be shy, let's all unfold, And learn together, as we're told. Vee is a vulva, there's no doubt, And with her, we can all figure out, The wonders of sex and what it's about, And how to keep ourselves from any clout. In America, where sex ed can be taboo, Vee is here to help us through, To learn the facts, the myths, the who's who, And all the things we need to pursue. So let's all welcome Vee with open arms, And take on this new way to disarm, The stigma and shame that's caused us harm, And learn about our bodies with great charm. Thank you, Vee, for being so brave, And helping us all to learn and pave, A path to knowledge that we can save, And share with others, to help and rave.

Michael: I love you so much but you need to know about Caprice! 90s underwear model and general C list celebrity

I'll have to try the test out! Hubby and I have been together for 36 years. And we've had some ups and downs within out sexual relationship. I have to say as we've gotten older and I don't know I guess began to just really trust each other and be open about whatever it is we are into at the moment, sex has only gotten better. All of my "kinky" stuff I'm into seems crazy only because no one I know (straight people) either do it or if they do do it they do not talk about it. When I was seeing a therapist before COVID hit I found out that all those things I liked were not actually terribly weird. I was ok, oh ok and felt better talking to my husband about the stuff I really wanted. It has been relationship changing

Ok now that you’ve dabbled in the good side of this therapy, would love to hear your deep dive on the “Orgasm Cult” called One Taste that I came across in my recent cult podcast binging 😂 (unless of course you’d get sued)

Mike and Aubrey, I love that you can be equally entertaining whether you are dunking on stuff or enjoying it. Maybe there should be more bonus episodes about good/fun stuff, especially as we continue to live in a bleak, bleak world. Also, I enjoy and appreciate your curiosity about straight dating/relationships and your articulate observations about them. I'm a married straight woman and it's nice to hear a view of these unspoken conventions and dynamics from an outside perspective, especially one that feels like it is sort of rooting for us :P. I have a couple queer friends who will react to stuff about dysfunctional relationships online by going "What is wrong with all these straight women?" or "Why are all straight couples like this, lmao?", sometimes in sort of a mean spirited way. It's never been directed at me personally, but it makes me feel like they aren't people I could go to with problems or concerns about my relationship. I'm sure this is how a lot of queer people feel all the time, and probably how a lot of fat people feel around their straight-sized peers (of which I am one). My goal is to never make people feel like that and always be curious and supportive, something I think this podcast is helping with (along with my own history of bad eating/exercise/body nonsense).

Glad to see this episode topic! I haven’t watched the whole show but I have gone through the erotic blueprint program with a coach and my partner (we’re a queer couple) if anyone has questions. In summary: Overall a good experience, and I find the blueprint applies to more than sex, but overall how you experience pleasure. There’s a lot of talk about consent and communication, and how each person/couple is different and can change over time. Most of the participants are straight, but there was content for solo participants and at least one video in the course specifically towards queer partnered ones. I do agree about the shapeshifter comment though, it seemed a bit undefined to me. And there was some woo-woo influence as well like with energetic orgasms, but they didn’t force those views at all. If anyone’s wondering my blueprint was energetic/sensual and my partner’s was kinky. We’re both on the aro/ace spectrum to different degrees.

Not to be tmi but as a queer trans person married to a straight man, this episode gave me all the feels. 🩷

If you need any other sex-positive, couple-focused shows to watch, I can really recommend "How To Build A Sex Room"! Diverse, fun and not Gwyneth-related 😅

So tired of Gwyneth, maybe time to move past her. I have a very long commute 2 days a week and have gone back over earlier episodes, in many of which you made reference to ghoulish companies or products and suggested entire episodes could be made on them. There's gotta be more in the tank than more Gwyneth. Please, tell me there's more. Also, full disclosure: this is my response to seeing the title, I'm just about to listen to it, but this is the response I have when I see 'Goop' or 'Gwyneth'. I may need to recant later (question mark)

This wasn't it for me. Not stuff I'm interested in at all. Bit I jist love u guys together. Especially Michael. I LOVED "you're wrong about" and tried to keep watching when he left. And just couldn't. The dynamic between Mike and Sarah was amazing and I loved it. So Mike, I'm sorry but u have to go back to Sarah, keep doing this and keep doing "if books could kill " then we would live happily ever after.

I am surprised by all of the surprised comments!

this reminds me a lot of the showtime show called couples therapy, theyre real couples but the show is so real and honest about relationship struggles! it's also very diverse in the types and compositions of the couples. highly recommend

my aunt was in episode five about the family constellations! our family had no idea this is what she does lmfao. also those aren’t strangers in the background - they’re definitely friends and family and maybe paid actors, her nephew is in the background 🥴 she’s very woo woo and no one really likes her lolol

Hello, new patreon person here. Binging all the bonuses I missed. Wanted to make a request for a bonus on Sumo wrestlers I remember seeing a video on how a sumo wrestler eats and stays fit and it was interesting because the normal fatphobia just didn't appear to apply in this context even in a country which seems to really uphold thinness.

Great show

So glad this is being discussed! Having moved in American Evangelical spaces for two decades (thank god I'm out) I can tell you MANY women who have been married to a man for decades have never had an orgasm with their husband. I know one woman who was married for over a year before either of them even know a woman could have an orgasm! Evangelical books written for women explicitly tell women that sex is a need for men and that he also needs to see your see you enjoy it. In so many words, they tell women to fake orgasm. So nothing ever changes. It's wild.

aubrey and mike watch “couples therapy” on showtime pleeeaase!💖💖

Thinking about Rama and Felisitas—sometimes people just don’t love each other anymore

Me at approximately the 9 minute mark: "This sounds tragically heterosexual."

“We don’t have a lot of cultural templates for healthy breakups.” All I could think was *conscious uncoupling* 🤣 I skeptically watched this show and it’s about time we addressed how women are often defined sexually by the desires and ego of their (male) partners. Appreciated that they had queer couples on the show too!

I'm curious as to whether Michael recorded this before or after reading The Five Love Languages for If Books Could Kill.

I really respect that this episode views Goop in a positive light. I’m not a Goop fan by any means, I just think this is a great example of how Maintenance Phase critically looks at media instead of just reporting on their already established biases. In other words, this is a great example of responsible journalism.

I love love love you all platforming something positively - I didn’t expect to but just love also hearing why you love things just as much as when you debunk unhelpful things. Also, more positive sex content. What a dearth I’d love you all to fill. Having positive sexual health is totally wellness!

Bonus episode where Aubrey and Michael plan the chart of Gwyneth Paltrow's influence on the world from worst to kind of OK?

The sex therapy reminded me of the pelvic floor PT I had after having a baby (highly recommend). I was mostly there for some lingering nerve pain/muscle tension but they can definitely help with sexual function. I don’t see how it’s that different.

The experience of being pleasantly surprised by anything Goop was not something I anticipated. 😅

the stiltedness and caution of straight dating is unfortunately very real but it's still mystifying to me how little many people in relationships communicate. I can understand it when you're still getting to know each other, but when you've been together for years??

*continues crocheting sexual and reproductive organs*… what?

One thing I saw differently is the scene where Aubrey is describing Rama and Fellicitas coming up with the sexy names for each other. For a moment, they both let their baggage and guard down and there was obvious sexual energy between them. He was expressing that his name meant king and that he wanted to be king of everything. And she said she would like that. You could feel the D/s role reversal desires. It was momentary but it was there. Just had to pop in to say that because I was so upset when I was listening. Like hey give them a little credit 😄

Michael coming in with the low key cosmo headline: “to get the sex you want, coddle his EGO!”

Trying to do this quiz and they want to charge me $17 USD absolutely not

Y’all should give the show “couples therapy” on showtime a go! Each season follows various couples in… couples therapy! As a psych phd student… I have some… questions about the ethics of therapy being televised like that but my overall impression is that it’s pretty good. It’s so interesting watching all the dynamics and ways people work on their relationship

I appreciated this conversation. Over the past couple years I've started talking to the guys I have sex with about our sex and it's kind of mind-blowing how they've never done that with a partner before and at first they're confused about why we'd talk about it.

Devastated that we don’t get to know Mike and Aubrey’s sexual types.

I'm glad y'all talked about the fears of women (maybe--just talking as a lady here) of not being like "oh, you big wonderful lover!" I had a boyfriend in college who asked if I had an orgasm. I said no, but I really liked it. He slapped me. I don't think that's the norm, but also nobody wants to risk even having someone that you really like being upset with you, let alone violence.

I can now die happy having heard Aubrey say the words “beanie baby vulva”

I'm bisexual and my husband is straight, and we tend to communicate a lot about sex and what we do and don't like. I'm not sure if this is because we just find the het models inadequate, or if it's because we're both neurodivergent and are very aware that we can't read each other's minds. But the way a lot of North American straight couples seem to just never talk to each other about sex (and if they're not talking about sex, are they not talking about other stuff too?) really baffles me.

The beanie baby closer 🤣🤣🤣

Loved this episode!! I don’t think I’ve heard a conversation about heterosexual relationships from the perspective of queer people before. At least not in this way. I’m a woman in a hetero relationship and this was really a refreshing and validating listen about het relationship gender dynamics.

Who are this people and what have they done to Michael and Aubrey? Hahaha just kidding! I love how how you are super consistent with your objectivity. Even if that means admitting sometimes Goop is right.

Aubrey make I suggest adding nostril waxing videos to your pimple poppin/earwax playlist? So satisfying!!! 😅

Michael I'm with you on the sex stuff. Do whatever consenting thing you want, just get a room please! 😛 Also l'm looking the other way when I get my blood drawn. And I don't even want to hear the words "p----e p-----g." 🤢

Loved this bonus ep!!!

This was truly new information for me to learn straight people dont discuss their sex life. I think it is very US specific. I dont talk about my sex life unless I am thinking about or about to have sex with someone. Then ALWAYS. I just dont have time for bad sex

The show “Couples Therapy” on Showtime is beginning it’s fourth season this month. It provides an honest exploration of relationship dynamics with a diverse set of problems. I cannot recommend this show enough!

Please make this episode free, then advertise it.

As a very kinky, bisexual, polyam woman I found myself chuckling at them describing the reluctance some women have at telling their male partner that they want to orgasm too. One of my current partners was not very experienced prior to dating me and was a little shocked when I told him that yes, I too needed and expected to orgasm during sex. But he learned and he learned fast, which is why I kept him around. If he hadn't gotten on board I would have not seen him anymore because my husband and my other partner adore making women orgasm and I don't have time for a partner who doesn't want to be in a sexually equal relationship. I feel so bad for cishet women (and men). They need to talk to us queers more.

Is it bad that all I could think about when you were talking about the erotic blueprints, all I could think about was the different houses from Divergent?

Americans really have a weird attitude to sex and sex work. In Australia, you can include sex workers in your publicly funded individualised package for disability support - criteria is "reasonable and necessary supports" This has been unanimously upheld by federal court https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/may/12/ndis-funds-pay-sex-workers-court-rules

I genuinely love the commentary from both of you on heterosexual relationships as observers. Super interesting listening as a straight woman.

Hearing Aubrey and Mike witnessing and processing ~Hetero Hell~ is incredible

Could you *please* do a spin off or make recommendations for podcasts about healthy sex!! Esp with all the conservative bs banning books and calling all lgbtqi people groomers. Gotta counter that narrative!!

Founded by Joseph Kramer?? Joseph and Kramer are the names of my two cats. Joseph as in Joseph Smith, the mormon prophet (I thought it would be funny and it is) and Kramer like from Seinfeld, because he runs into the room with that look in his eyes as if he’s about to tell you about his plan for a restaurant where you make your own pizza. But also now I know that Joseph Kramer was a famous sexologist. Hell yeah

Just started it and I have to say, I am *just like Michael.* I’m sex-positive but when I start thinking about, like, fluids, I get squicked out. And all the other things he’s grossed out by, so am I. The thing that gets me the most is puke scenes in movies/TV. WHHHYYYYY do they have to show that stuff? I have to turn away and cover my ears, like people do with horror scenes.

This got me thinking about the how to build a sex room show Netflix did that turned out totally wholesome and heartwarming.

Sidebar: I know it was as just a movie regerence but you’re not like Matthew McConaughey … he‘s become the kind of grifter you cover 😅 He recently had an online course/funnel featuring Tony Robbins and Marie Forleo.

OK, where's Michael's Myers-Briggs episode?

A show that helps couples become more open and communicative with each other sounds like a healthy idea, but I think when something calls itself "sex positive" and then links everything to sex, fails the sex positivity movement. When that lady called the couple cuddling and opening up to each other "orgasmic" made me so uncomfortable. I think being able to differentiate when things are and are not sexual is a major component to consent and sexual health. And by that I mean "romantic and non-sexual" and also "platonic and non-sexual". It creates a lot of misunderstandings and stunts what platonic relationships can look like. It would take an dissertation to get into it. I guess it also is personal for me, as I am aro/ace and *nothing* I do is either romantic or sexual. It drives me insane how many men assume my platonic interactions are an invitation for something. Edit: Wow, I wasn't expecting any engagement lol but it reminded me of a point I didn't know how to articulate before. I think "sex shaming" and "everything is over-sexualized" is actually the same social issue. If a group of people can convince society that sex is shameful, then they need only keep sexualizing non-sexual acts and attitudes to make those equally as shameful. Which is maybe why I'm highly suspicious of this flavor of sex positivity. Because it misses the point. It isn't just that sex isn't shameful, it's also having to recognize why shame is weaponized and who is being told to keep in line. If you buy into the original framing of the oppressors, then you will inadvertently validate parts of their argument. Which is just another foothold for the next time around.

As someone in a poly relationship, a couple things really resonated: 1) Aubrey's joking "poly people exist and have a baby!" Loved the casual normalization there. 2) The discussion around the conversations that straight couples often don't have. Being poly, there are a LOT of conversations my partner and I have had around boundaries and such, that have really improved our relationship even irrespective of being poly.

Great episode! I feel like I’m going crazy though. Did you post this and the 10,000 steps episodes before? Especially with the 10,000 steps one I had such a strong feeling of deja vu. This one I think might just remind me of another bonus episode that was also about a Goop Netflix show? Not meant as criticism. Both great listens. Just wondering if I’m losing it

Oof the conversation around flattering male ego as a protective factor in hetero sex is hitting hard.

So glad I am aro/ace after listening to this. It sounds exhausting.

I watched this show back in quarantine and really liked it. I loved your review too, great talk. Michael makes a great point about how weird the dynamic of straight couples sex lives are. Overall I think people are greatly lacking in sexual education. TONS of males do not know how the female body works and have no idea about the difference of orgasms between genders. They’re trying (I use the word trying very loosely) to give female orgasms with the male orgasm approach. Great talk guys. Thank you, much love.

I live in the Netherlands and sexology is legal and not uncommon here. My husband and I are currently working with an 'intimacy therapist/coach' who uses Betty Martin's Wheel of Consent and this is one of the main models that is available for couples to frame conversations. There are others but this one is really well known over here. One thing to be wary of in working with a sex therapist or sexologist is that this very legitimate and needed form of help for anyone who needs it has sometimes morphed into unsound and unproven woo woo practices such as 'jade egg', and vaginal massage, which is used in spiritual circles to (supposedly) help women get over sexual abuse trauma. I'm a trauma therapist and I shudder whenever I hear about this shit; not because it definitely doesn't *ever* "work", but because the risks outweigh the benefits and we have other evidence-based and much safer methods we can use that are equally if not more effective. And in the hands of the wrong person (or with the hands I should say) there's a high risk of things going wrong and it gives the whole field a bad taint.

You guys nailed it with the weird baggage us straight people bring to sex through American culture and gender norms. Thanks for that.

I am not even 2 minutes in and I am 100% on team squeamish! Same here I hate those videos!!!

Does anyone else love Michael’s sexy voice around 7:50?

Less than 2 minutes in and I have never related to Michael more. The concept of pimple popping videos makes me want to claw my skin off. ...that said, I find surgical videos fascinating. Don't want to think about pimples, but I do want to see what the internal organs are up to.

Michael you are not alone on the squeamishness about certain bodily fluids ughhh