Illness Influencers: A Very Belle Gibson Bonus Episode

Also a PK over here! Mom is a pastor and Dad was a nuclear engineer.

Not me coming back to this episode after watching “Apple Cider Vinegar” 😅

Wow, this is dark.

I loathe her. I had real cancer. She is a vile person.

Raynor Winn/The Salt Path would have been such an interesting add-on here from a 2025/26 perspective. A different brand of illness grifting, but has some overlap (and also involves lack of proper care by publishing/mainstream media)

how about the documentary! the jump to ethiopian activism?!!?

Glad to see so many of us are here after the Netflix show. Proud to share brainworms with you all.

Just watched the new docudrama series about Gibson and spent the whole time thinking I'd have to listen to these episodes again.

Desperately need a bonus episode on the new Belle Gibson documentary on Netflix

Great show! Will you post an update after seeing the Netflix show about this topic? It’s called “Apple Cider Vinegar” and will be released early February.

I really appreciate Aubrey's take on people's reactions to terminal illness being a kind of pre-death grief. This really articulated something I've felt and identified but couldn't quite explain. What a beautiful and compassionate way to put it.

I'm surprised that Aubrey and Mike didn't acknowledge that Emily Dear is clearly dealing with major mental health problems. When I hear this story, that seems very apparent.

HOLY SHIT! I’m a recent listener, and am going through your back catalog. The rare kind of cancer you mentioned? MY SISTER HAD IT. Sorry for shouting caplock, but i almost never hear of anyone getting it. She had to go to Amsterdam to have that special chemo you mentioned, because the drugs involved were never been approved by the FDA. Why bother manufacturing a drug when so few people use it aka no profit for drug companies. Anyway, it was too late for the chemo to help her- they caught the tumor much too late to effectively treat it with drugs , although it did destroy most of the tumor . She had her right leg amputated up to almost the top of her thigh. She’s been cancer free since 2005 , and has a full leg prosthesis. She’s had a tough time with many aspects of the medical system, insurance companies, her disability payments through the government, and being disabled. It’s been a real education for me too as I’ve watched her journey. I love her so much, and thank god she got real treatment from real doctors. She has a good sense of humor about it, like when people come up to her and say very gravely, “thank you for your service.” They assume the leg was blown off in combat. Then when she gently corrects them, they always whip out the most grisly cancer story you’ve ever heard, or tell her she should drink apple cider vinegar.

I would have liked to have heard more about Emily starting this at 11 years old. I have a 13 year old and I can't imagine what that kind of weird attention would have on her development. And kids do weird stuff online all the time.... But this is so extreme.

I think about this a lot. Should this woman be a doctor? She is a fantasist and deeply unbalanced. In light of the whole Lucy Letby I don’t think she should be a doctor.

That nameless German cake sounds good tho

astonishingly ghoulish INDEED

I’m from Northeast Ohio.. here to say there’s really not much to do in Rootstown.

as someone with borderline personality disorder. yeah. I get it.

Just an FYI, the last 20 minutes of this episode seem to be corrupted as they won’t play for me. It’s fine up until then, but if I skip around I can play before that and after that it’s just silent. Not sure what’s up.

I am surprised someone would pick Saskatchewan for their fake Canadian Facebook people. Normally when Americans think of Canada they seem to mostly go for Ontario. Also, my cat was very interested in the cricket noises

I really appreciate the compassionate way you approach the people in this episode. You expose the reality and don’t sacrifice the humanity in these situations. It’s so easy to vilify people who have “very human responses to horrible situations”, and you manage to see the humanity in that person while saying not cool dude. This is why I am an ardent fan. I am learning so much more outside of my own perspective on the world.

Sat next to Jess Ainscough in 2016 at a David ‘avocado’ Wolfe summit in Brisbane. I know, I was in it deep 😬 She won a prize pack being at the summit and was promoted by the speaker. The next year she was starting a podcast and was sending flyers out for a luncheon with her mother… and she was gone not much longer after this, luncheon cancelled. Such a sad story and it’s messed up. I would go to the local health shop see her health book on the shelf for years after her death. As a cancer survivor as a 20 year old as well, she really spoke to me but I took the chemo drugs and I was still living and she was gone. This was the friction needed for me to wake up from the clean eating holistic garbage I was buying into. 20 years on from my first diagnosis, I’ve been eating ‘normally’ but again have another cancer diagnosis… fingers crossed, easily treatable too. Life can be a bitch but listen to your doctors people!! Thanks Mike and Aubrey for everything you do, keep it coming and we will eat it up 🤣

Anyone else confused by Mike and Aubrie's description of a basketball game? Anyways, this was an amazing ep!

Omg, Ty Bollinger! You could do an entire episode about him and his wife!

Fully half the Tourettes Reddit is teenagers dealing with fallout from the existence of "fake disease call-out" subs. Sure, there are some people faking on TikTok and that sucks but like, when I was diagnosed I only knew of Tourettes from "deuce Bigalow, male gigolo" (also the case when I got my narcolepsy diagnosis) and I forgot where I was headed with this but I love y'all's work.

I'm from Rootstown, Ohio (where the Warrior Eli hoax lady is from) and I still have family there, but never heard about this. Pretty sure I scared some pedestrians because I yelled "WHAAAAAT" so loudly while listening in my car. This town is so small - my graduating highschool class was 84 people - I'll never get over that this was our shout out in Maintenance Phase and I was clueless about it LMAO

Gotta tell you, when I listened to the Belle Gibson episode I thought for the first few mentions of the name that you were saying "Mel Gibson". Born and raised in Australia and never in my life had I heard of this person "Belle Gibson". Hilarious!

Please make Aubrey and Mike forever wrist bands

Fir real be into a ‘salad’ episode even if it went more in the direction of gendered foods - like perceived healthy food is often considered ‘girly’. LOL.

I have multiple chronic illnesses and I came across a message board while looking for advice, and they were referencing Bell Gibson on Joe Rogan and thanks to this episode I knew it was a double red flag and to run the other way haha.

I think it's a stretch to say that Jess Ainscough was given all of the information she needed to make an informed decision about how to treat her cancer. We don't really know what information she was given, but we do know that it's not exactly common for Gerson therapy practitioners to talk about the fact that there's basically no evidence to support that Gerson therapy helps with cancer. If given all of the information about this treatment, the use of Gerson therapy is not a cancer treatment choice, it's a choice to die and give grifters a bunch of money.

I keep refreshing my podcast app in the hopes the new bonus episode has dropped. I know there are a few more days left in the month but I can’t wait!

I knew I loved you guys, then Mike made SILMARILLION refernce and now I'm yours for life❣️❣️❣️

miss u guys

Just lost 45 minutes of my life yesterday while a friend explained and tried to convince me to join her on the Medical Medium's 9 day cleanse. I just smiled and said no thank you but I wanted to scream "Fuck all the way off and this guy is a nutcase." She truly believes in all the metal build up in her liver craziness and is living off seaweed and lemon juice for 9 days!! Now I need to binge all your episodes again to find the one with the medical medium!

They should totally review brittany runs a marathon on Amazon prime. I generally don't know how to feel about this movie.

What have been your favorite episodes to record and research?

Y’all are amazing and I’ve so thoroughly enjoyed the content. Was curious if you saw this piece by Samantha Grasso in Discord? https://www.discourseblog.com/p/turns-out-you-could-have-a-tv-show?r=6ua2d&utm_campaign=post&utm_source=Turns%20Out%20You%20Could%20Have%20a%20TV%20Show%20That%20Doesn%E2%80%99t%20Tear%20Fat%20People%20Down&utm_medium=ios Lizzo’s new show could be an interesting thing to discuss on yours too!

Please drop the next episode y’all! 😭

Sorry if I missed this in the comments, but does anyone know what happened with the grifter? I’ve ironically been binging these as I recover from my second (real) brain surgery of the year, so I am INVESTED. 🤣 I’m just thinking that if I googled my neurosurgeon and this history came up, I’d be more than a little concerned. Did she end up becoming a doctor with this internet history, or go down a different path once everything came out?

Does anybody know why there haven’t been any Patreon episodes for March? ಥ_ಥ I don’t know if I missed something, but as soon as I bought the Patreon, they haven’t been releasing bonus episodes.

Please please do an episode on Dave Hollis and Heidi Powell!!!

I lost my best friend since daycare to cancer a few years ago. She decided to delay treatment that may well have saved her life because she read about curing cancer with diet and also how Lyme disease can cause cancer so she wanted to give the Lyme disease treatment she got her doctors to prescribe her time to work. Within 6 months the cancer had progressed to the point that cancer treatment wasn’t even going to save her and they just kept her comfortable for the last few months of her life as much as they could. I’m only now realizing just how much medical disinformation has taken from us all. While I at the time (and still in theory even knowing the result) supported her choices because it was her life, it does leave me with complicated feelings in my grief because there is some anger mixed in with it not necessarily with her but with the information she used to make those choices. I still miss her every day. She was 30 years old and had so much life still to give.

I absolutely loved Aubrey’s sound effects machine! 😂🙌

I googled the 'Cancer bride', because I live in Upstate NY, and do not remember hearing about this and was curious where she lived. If you were wondering why she served jail time for this, she looks to be a woman of color. So, judicial bias is alive and well.

just joined your patreon! Love you guys - keep it up :)

Sorry, this isn’t very insightful but just wanted to share Aubrey has a great laugh. It’s one of those laughed that’s infectious and truly makes my day when listening. Love this show so much!

Someone on insta did an explainer: https://www.instagram.com/p/CbF_PKwLCvn/?utm_medium=copy_link

AMA: I’ve subscribed to a few substack newsletters by fat activist writers, and this week everyone’s talking about Lyndo Bacon and the fatphobia and racism in HAES. I went down a few rabbit holes today and I couldn’t figure it out. I need an explainer, please. Why does everyone hate Lyndo Bacon, and what’s problematic about HAES?

Can we get some Mike+Aubrey 4eva wristbands please?

Chronic illness memoir compare/contrast? Tessa Miller’s What Doesn't Kill You: A Life with Chronic Illness - Lessons from a Body in Revolt is the book I had wanted so badly Sarah Ramey’s The Lady's Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness to be. The latter was such a literal gut punch during a period of health vulnerability to read past all the red flags only to get to the “recs” of dietary quackery and functional medicine doctors who don’t take insurance, sad rage lol with Aubrey raspberry noise mixed in.

As a sick person I honestly find it really hard to be mad at people who lie about illnesses. I just think it's really sad. They're dealing with something, even if it's not the thing they're telling us about. I get much much angrier at the nondisabled people who join in on the backlash, because so many of them are only interested in showing up for sick people when they get to defend our honour against someone who's lied. Give me that kind of energy for SSI restoration or equitable access to healthcare and then we can talk.

I love listening to Aubrey’s voice. I’d buy a second copy of Aubrey’s audiobook if she would release a version read by her — maybe with sections by Mike where appropriate. I’m straight but Aubrey is my current girl crush.

Okay, I'm a million years behind on my listening here but I just have to report that my uncle had cancer in 2005 and decided that sugar gave him cancer and has not had any sugar since (although he *has* had cancer once since). This took me back.

Honestly, i want to know how you met and what your first impressions of each other were!

TIL about Royal Rife... And vintage fake cancer cures. Maybe one to add to the future episode pile.

Episode request: Alkaline diet! Alkaline diet!

Dear lord, has anyone else seen the trailer for "Butter?" That looks like a potentially weapons grade bad take.

PLEASE DO AN EPISODE ON PCOS PLEASE I'M BEGGING YOU

Also my friends Mom fell victim to this idea that western medicine is untrustworthy and was trying to treat her breast cancer with Black Salve. She tragically ended up dying from a curable cancer

You guys make my day 💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕

So speaking of the Keto grift, I would really love to see an episode on it! My nephew has a severe disabling condition which causes seizures (not quite epilepsy, but similar brain impact) and when years of trying different meds didn't work, he now does a keto diet PLUS several kinds of medication and he's gone from tons of seizures and sometimes ER trips from the bad ones to very rare ones. What was really wild about this was that it was all happening in a parallel to the ketogenic diet becoming super popular? He's been doing it for... I dunno, nearly 4 years now? (pandemic timeline is hard to keep track of) and it seems like it's expensive and exhausting to prepare all of it, but also lifesaving so his parents do it. So some of my questions besides "why are people doing this when it's not medically necessary?" include like... do people actually do this for years? How does it make them feel? Who made it popular?

I would just like to ask if I'm the only one who finds the way Aubrey says "that's right" realy comforting? I do.

Have you heard of Kris Carr? She’s a “cancer wellness influencer” type person, I don’t think she’s necessarily grifty, but maybe? I have her book Crazy, Sexy, Diet, it has a ton of fat shaming in it. It really turned me off and I had to stop reading it. Have you thought of doing a show on her?

Hey Aubrey & Mike! Hope y’all are well. I’ve got a couple questions for the AMA: How did y’all meet & how did you both individually come to want to report on junk health science? How long does the research for one episode take, & how do you know when the subject on which you’re reporting is “complete”? These are more logistical questions about the podcast I guess, I’m just so curious about how y’all produce such a great podcast?!

I’d love to hear you guys talk about intuitive eating.

Do I remember correctly that Jess Ainscough’s mom got breast cancer, followed Jess’s advice and forewent conventional treatment and died a year or two before Jess did? Horrible all around.

Okay but why did we not get to "illfluencers" at any point???

I'd love an episode about the book Dopamine Nation. It is so much bullshit wrapped in a transparent layer of science. A spring roll of crap.

Hey, just wanted to say thanks so much for this podcast!! I feel far better equipped to challenge people when they spread harmful diet rhetorics and able to do it in (hopefully) a compassionate way because of the way that you speak about it. Example, I have covid right now and a friend hit me with a "I GOT THIS JUICE RECIPE FROM A MAN IN HIS 70S WHO NEVER WEARS MASKS AND HASN'T GOT COVID YOU SHOULD TRY IT". I wouldn't know how to challenge this effectively in the past but now I do. So thank you!

This one hit so close to home guys - my son had cancer and we had a situation in our oncology mom crew where one of the mom's kept faking pregnancies, faking financial hardship and all sorts of other shit. All this was happening while her baby boy was dying from brain cancer, a little guy she would largely ignore while she spent most of the time outside his room chain-smoking and on the phone. I got sucked in hard here until one of the other moms pointed out a few red flags and it all soon fell apart. After everything I have been through with my son (who has survived and is doing awesome) I still cannot believe someone would use their child's illness to attention seek and take money from other cancer parents...but they certainly are out there.

This podcast has been such a gift to me, thank you so much for giving us a safe place to unravel these topics.

Episodes on bariatric surgery; noom; and diabetes.

I think we need a “Woof” shirt or sticker!

My partner is a big fan of Louis Anderson and heard him say in an interview with Marc Maron that bariatric surgery removes specifically "the part of the stomach that sends hunger signals to the brain". I tried to do a little research because this screams diet culture pseudoscientific nonsense to me but couldn't find anything. I would love a whole episode on the many lies that surround various weight loss surgeries, including this one. And/or Girlscout Cookies!

omg PLEASE do an episode on liver king, and just..bro fluencers generally. Or maybe you can weave him into your paleo episode.

Totally off topic.. but could the team please release the theme song as a file so I can make it my ringtone.. 📱🔔

All I can think about in regards to the “Warrior Eli” story, is the episode of Friends where Joey’s character Dr Drake Ramoray was killed off and he says, “Apparently my brain was so damaged, the only doctor who could fix me, was me.” 😂🤣🤣

Loved this episode! Could y'all do a dive into cold laser therapy? It just reminds me of those weird belts that allegedly "vibrate the fat away" >_<

i am apart of a community that criticizes chronic illness fakers because i am someone who experiences CI myself and is so damn tired of the lying for attention. not all of us are awful people nitpicking and hunting down others to prove their illness. most of the people who get posted are the same 10 or so who we know have been doing it for awhile

Not sure if someone said this already. It’s utterly inconsequential haha. But! Saskatchewan is pronounced Saskatchew-in, by those in the know haha. You’ll earn major prairie cred if you do that!

We need a tshirt that says “Godammit, Mike!”

The first story makes more sense when you think about how YOUNG she was when she started.... and makes me sad for the kids coming up today tbh. The last one, BG's friend Jess: as someone who grew up evangelical, there is SO much in common between these cancer grifter's philosophies and white US evangelical prosperity gospel & miracle expectations. The onus for your sickness or disability is on you for not doing life right (whether that's not praying right to get the holy spirit to heal you, or eat the right foods), and convenient for them "it's easier to just take a pill" distrust of "modern" medicine.

Have you guys ever heard of 'the liver king?' Buzzfeed just did an article on him. Look him up, you won't be disappointed

Dolly was a teen magazine

Please bring back the audience machine

Oh, and Aubrey, your laugh brightens my day every time I hear it. Thank you so much for being your fabulous self.

Also just listened to the Jordan episode - as a women with chronic illnesses, I feel like we need a bonus episode on Michaela Jordan. I mean, eating red meat fixes an autoimmune autoinflammatory condition? So what, your immune system finally figured shit out and stops attacking you because of…meat?! Um, no.

After listening to the Jordan Peterson episode, I am very humbly begging for merch items that say "citation fucking needed"

As a teen in the 90s, I’d love an episode on Susan Powter’s Stop the Insanity! The message that ‘eat less and move more’ works for everyone was her primary motto, and was often used by fat phobes in my life to argue that fat = lazy. So, no thank you. But, my queer teenaged self also thought she was super hot with her shaved head. The 90s were complicated!

Love your show, and this is about today’s episode—I just saw that Jordan Peterson is booked for two nights in Seattle at the Paramount in May. What?!?!

I don’t have a question, I just really love your show! Thank you for doing this, I have so many wonderful friends in larger bodies and this is very validating to their experience. It’s also helped me address my own body image issues and internalized fat phobia. I have totally stopped saying negative things about my body in front of my friends. Thank you!

Aside from complete reform and universal healthcare, what is the change you would most like to see in our healthcare system or our healthcare workers?

I would like to know how you both keep notes and organize your research.

Did anyone else pause the show and go straight to YouTube today??

Bonus episode idea: Talk about the Simpsons episode "King Size Homer" (the one where Homer intentionally becomes obese so that he can work from home). That episode is interesting in that it kind of wants to have it both ways re: laughing at fat people and pointing out that fat people have to deal with discrimination. What do you / what does the fat community make of this episode?

Oh rats- sorry messed up above. Can you tell us what are the last great fiction and nonfiction book you read?

Hi- I love you guys. I noticed someone mentioned something about moderating comments due to triggering comments. Just wanted to let you know I would be interested in volunteering to help with that. For the AMA- can you tell us a little bit more about

Where is the original Bell Gibson episode? I can’t find it.

As an adult with ADHD, I would love to hear about the abuse of ritalin and adderall for weight loss. In particular, how this abuse (and mainstream depictions of it in e.g. Desperate Housewives and celebrity confessions of shopping for prescriptions) contribute to the mini moral panics that have sprung up around medicating ADHD, and more general mental health stigma. Personally, I know it took me longer to get help because there is a perception that taking stimulants is a "cheat", and being biologically female I anticipated that my suspicions that I have ADHD would be dismissed, and I'd be accused of shopping for diet pills. I have also read that ADHD meds are being used experimentally for treating binge eating disorders and have super mixed feelings about all of that (people should get the treatment they need, but I also wonder if this treatment is potentially too focused on losing weight to make someone look healthy and not on changing or understanding behaviour so they can improve their mental health? I honestly don't know!).

Would love to hear you guys talk about the “Lumen” tool, who’s slogan is “Hack Your Metabolism.” It’s like a breathalyzer but for weight loss

It would be cool to have an episode about the 10,000 steps a day recommendation and why it’s a myth

Ama: Michael: Have you tried/found success in getting an English speaking psychologist in Germany? Have you explored the German food and wellness myths 🫖🍵? Both of you: How AMA are these AMAs? I have problems dealing with a guy with a fatshaming and gainer fetish and would really like some advice.

AMA: have you ever considered having guests on the show?

I know you two are busy and I respect that everyone is in different places on their journeys, but I wonder if you might consider moderating the comments here a bit? Or maybe including a blanket trigger warning? It’s okay to ask questions, but as someone recovering from an ED, I find a lot of the questions and flat out misinformation about “why” people are fat here quite triggering.

Ama- can you explain the process of finding your research? I would love to be a methodology queen, and know some basics, but can’t seem to know how to deep dive enough to answer my questions.

Emily literally created the DCU (Deer Cinematic Universe)

America’s profit driven medical system has made me truly skeptical about medical advice/treatments coming out of the same system. I want to believe in modern medicine and also look at things like the opioid crisis and feel really sad and angry. What’s your advice for trying to balance this skepticism with advances in medicine?

How about an episode on Food Babe? She makes my head explode.

I am an oncology (cancer) nurse at a very well known institution (you've heard of it), and I specialize in the type of cancer that Jessica Ainscough had. We have SO MANY patients these days who are grasping for straws, listening to people like this and doing weird things like ingesting hydrogen peroxide and hounding us for referrals for hyperbaric oxygen therapy....it's so exhausting, tbh. We actually have a new specialty in our cancer center - an "oncology integrative health" program where patients can meet with a board certified oncologist/integrative health specialist who can advise on complementary & alternative therapies, including diet/supplements, etc. I've been following our patients who go to that clinic to see what kinds of things they are recommending. And wouldn't ya know, it's basically just whole foods plant-based/Mediterranean style diet, gentle exercise, cannabis, and a handful of very well studied supplements. And our patients are basically shocked that they can't get their snake oil from them. It's fun. Hit me up if you ever need further insight from the clinical side of things especially related to oncology or chronic illness. Love the show!

Or a episode about fasting- there is bullshit “health retreats” where you pay loads of money to fast for multiple days

I would love to hear an episode about “John of god” (supposed “healer” that Oprah was a huge fan of until all the abuse he did became public

Hearing Michael say the name of my hometown (Saskatchewan) is like music to my ears! I hope you do another influencer episode but touch on some YouTube folks like Nikocado and Eugenia Cooney.

I am from Saskatchewan and I was so startled to hear this shout out. And the thought of a person named John Deere living in the Prairies is quite incredible. Also Canada has incredible PR and is trash in its own way!

AMA: I Can’t remember which episode it was but Aubrey you mentioned something about how you werent hating on intuitive eating but didn’t think it was the end all be all. Or something like that. I would be very interested to hear more of your thoughts on the subject if intuitive eating. I’ve been using intuitive eating as part of my ED recovery, but tbh I’m not sure how it’s going. I’m not actively engaging in restriction - but I think about it ALL THE TIME. I really appreciate the show and y’all. 💖

Thank you both for this episode and the show in general. Especially the last case involving the “natural” cancer cures. Sorry to say I was by raised in the culture of “take responsibility for your health with diet, fasts, and cleanses.” Even as a kid I quickly saw through these as we jumped from one fad to another. Still I had to deprogram myself. Then my (now ex) put that shit in our kid’s head and that led to a nearly fatal eating disorder in him at age 14. 😖 I credit the Maudsley Method (A.KA. Family Based treatment) for getting us out of that mess. It’s especially fucked up to shame kids for getting sick making it a “moral comeuppance.”😳

I really appreciate how you pointed out how these health influencers act as if getting cancer is some moral failing. They don't seem to be aware of the people that did everything "right" and still got cancer. For instance, what about the person that gets stage 4 lung cancer even though she eats healthy, exercised regularly, didn't smoke, and is a thin person like them? How did she fail? I suppose the mention of cases like this doesn't sell juice cleanses and books. This is incredibly insensitive to anyone that gets cancer. People don't get cancer because they didn't worship at the temple of thin white lady health enough. Cancer is a combination of genes, environment, and sometimes just bad fucking luck.

I read an entire textbook about maunchausen, MBP, & factitious disorders called “Playing Sick”. The psychiatrist who wrote it said that they are incredibly hard to study because so many people afflicted have committed some type of fraud (whether financial or insurance) so it’s hard to get people to participate in studies. Sounds right up that alley

“I’m a small man indoors.” Perfect, Michael. 😆❤️

I loved the sound effects lol. I love this show so much. Thanks guys

AMA question: have you heard about Heidi Montag and the raw meat diet?! There’s a video of her eating RAW BULLS BALLS 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

AMA question: How have your lives changed since you started this podcast? Are you recognized on the streets or anything? Also, just wanted to add that you guys are wonderful and it's the highlight of my morning to see that a new episode has downloaded. I could listen to you two talk about anything at all!

I need the small man indoors t-shirt for my husband. I need it so bad

For the AMA: How did it feel to share your identity after only being known as your fat friend? Have the ways people talk to about fat/fat people changed?

For a future episode: I was diagnosed with ADHD last year and put on a stimulant medication. In the medication info it talks about weight changes when you begin a stimulant— no big deal, makes sense when you think about it— but I found in a lot of places that binge eating and fatness are more common in people with ADHD than the general population. ADHD is all about dopamine and pleasure chemicals and an issue with getting the dopamine hit needed to validate intrinsic rewards. Extrinsic rewards are much easier to understand and food is a common reward. Emotional eating to the max. One source seemed to suggest that people with ADHD might even get a stronger hit of dopamine in relation to food than the average person. Also that they’re more likely to eat foods that are sweet or considered treats because they’re just starving for dopamine and these encourage your brain to make more. My medication does not need to be taken every single day and when I skip it for a weekend I just notice I’m a whole lot snackier and actually struggle NOT to binge eat. This has always been an issue and I noticed a difference after starting my med, which is what prompted me to look around for info. So beyond the fact that people with ADHD are more likely to struggle with binge eating and emotional eating, which is proven, I don’t know how much else is legit. I’d love to hear what you can find with your resources and everything. I have not been able to stop thinking about it and swirling around this question of “was my brain wired from birth to be fat? What about other fat people with ADHD— were they ever going to be thin?” Of course fatness + neurodivergence is a whole topic in general and I know that ASD has it’s own effects on weight and food and eating, but I had never heard a connection with ADHD before.

Hi Mike and Aubrey, long time listener, first time commenter... for AMA: what is the theme music to the show? I love it and dance around my kitchen whenever I play the podcast. I'd love to have a longer version if it exists. Thanks!

AMA: who are you following on social? you mentioned a tiktok you watched recently and i’m interested in who you recommend and strongly don’t recommend

A coda to the new WW CEO being founder of house party and gaming? https://twitter.com/simasistani/status/1496852925095817223?s=21

AMA: where did y’all go to college & what degrees did you get?

Topic idea! But I’m not sure if this sits outside the MP wheelhouse…I read the book ‘Drink’ by Ann Dowsett Johnston a couple of years ago and became really fascinated by the relationship many women have with alcohol.

Question ! I feel like I’ve heard people say calories in/ calories out isn’t accurate. Why is that, if that’s the case?

AMA (Silly-ish question!): How do y'all feel about Kung Fu Panda?? I just watched it and feel like it might be one of the sneakiest anti-fatphobia ever... everyone makes fun of Po for his weight, but his size end up being part of his strength! But also there are still a lot of fat jokes and no obvious Pretty Woman-esque vindication for Po

Now I feel like I need a wristband….

Re: 'The Truth About Cancer' My mother, with whom my extremely tenuous relationship has since become no-contact, sent various links and infographics from this website to me as one of her first responses to me informing her of grade 3 cells found in my brain tumor meaning I would be undergoing chemotherapy and radiation, right after berating me over both. This information is so harmful not only on it's own, but also provides one more tool of abusers to exert control over vulnerable people.

AMA: Something that seems to me to be reallllly murky in the media is the link between oBeSiTy and covid. I assumed that most of it was the fact that fat people are in so many ways less likely to get adequate medical care and it could probably be chocked up to that, but then this study came out: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/health/covid-fat-obesity.html about covid actually attacking fat cells (leading the author here to claim covid is "targeting" fat people). All this said, I can't really tell where the vulnerability lies, and if this means that fat people are actually more vulnerable to getting infected in the first place as seems to be the idea surfacing... And then there's that added layer of using BMI to determine risk and thus vaccination eligibility... Wondering if you guys have done any thinking on this ! (imp topic for me - it was being labeled as obese before getting my first covid shot that led me to do a lotttt of work on my disordered eating and anti fat biases, and also when I started listening to you guys, which made all the above learning INFINITELY more fun <3)

AMA: This is a bit out of left field but I would give anything for this podcast to be around when the "I love my curvy wife" guy was a hot topic back in 2017. Apparently he's still up to shenanigans and I would love to hear any input. Y'all are the best.

AMA: I remember in a previous episode Mike mentioned something about not liking electrolytes or the electrolyte hype. Can you talk more about that? Thanks! I love the show. Every time I hear the intro I feel a calmness come over me. Y’all are amazing.

A quick AMA question: I'm reading the final issue of Entertainment Weekly and they have an article about Renee Zellweger's latest movie (actually a TV miniseries), where she wears a fat suit... but the article refers to it as a "body prosthesis." What do you think of this new nomenclature?

Great points made in this episode! As a person who has cancer, I see a lot of people asking about this or that supplement/diet/vapors/whatever as a chemo alternative in my cancer support Facebook group. It’s really difficult to navigate these interactions. The majority of comments fortunately are from people cautioning the OP against schemes of this nature and trying to allay their fears about chemo, but sometimes they go too hard and the comment section devolves into personal attacks, and the “sheeple” label comes out and mods have to get involved, and it’s all just very tiring. Aubrey made an excellent point about the people who get media attention are the ones who claim to have an easier answer. Mainstream cancer treatment has made huge leaps in just the last few decades in terms of both destroying cancer cells and mitigating chemo side effects. Chemo is never going to be a recreational drug (unless it becomes some sort of wellness trend to generally feel bad and have weird digestive issues), but I feel like newly diagnosed cancer patients wouldn’t have the dread that sends them to alternative medicine if they saw more updated depictions of what it looks like for a cancer patient to receive chemotherapy in the 2020s. The story of a person getting through chemo with moderate side effects that their doctor helps them mitigate with other newly developed drugs and eventually curing their cancer just isn’t going to get any clicks.

For the AMA I'd love your take on Orlistat (and similar), bariatric surgery, calories in/calories out, removing sugar from your diet entirely, paleo. I think you've touched on most of these, but I'd love more. Also, I have no idea if Gillian McKeith ever made it to the US but I'd love to hear your reactions to her shenanigans please! Thank you, favourite podcast!

This is probably something more for a book or even a PhD thesis but could you guys do an episode on how we even got here? Why is it that thinness is such an ideal? I love how this podcast is making me challenge the status quo (or well, putting clear facts next to my vague suspicions) - so happy to be supporting the show.

Wait, have y'all heard about the Msscribe drama? The first story reminded me of that.

Episode idea: Evolutionary aesthetics / evolutionary psychology Remember in the 90s when all those articles came out about waist-to-hip ratios and facial symmetry and neotinized features, basically arguing that all men are attracted (with inescapable biological force) to blonde Barbie dolls? Those things were all supposed to be a shorthand for "health," too, which was the point of why they'd drive mate selection. In retrospect, most of that smells like (racist) junk science.

Firstly, I love the podcast and your chemistry together. AMA are there any topics you shelved because they were too sensitive for either of you personally?

Not to plug another podcast but while I was listening to Mike talk about the Warrior Eli grifter all I could think about was the Sweet Bobby podcast from Tortoise Media. Listening to Aubrey's reactions to that grift made me want to be a fly on the wall if she ever listened to that story! It's a FANTASTIC story, I recommend it. In other news I listened to you guys for about five hours today so thanks for occupying / entertaining my ear holes.

I think the really insidious thing about a lot of these grifters that you've talked about since the beginning is that there is actual scientific evidence for some of what they talk about. I'm specifically thinking about this increasing body of research on the microbiome and the endocrine system and how each one impacts the other, and how both are impacted by environmental exposures, including but not limited to inorganic chemicals, food, and stress. This frontier of science is insanely cool and, along with debunking wellness grifters, is one of my very favorite things to learn about. Somehow--and I would LOVE for you guys to do an episode on how it happened--the wellness community got hold of this research or heard about it or something and all of a sudden the message went from "Hey, we found some environmental exposures that might cause the endocrine system to malfunction in a way that creates a more favorable environment for malignant tumors, but we only studied it in mice so far" to "Having a negative attitude will give you cancer!" It's a shame because it undermines the credibility of the actual science from which it is loosely derived, and it also flattens the (incredibly fascinating) nuance, complexity, and interconnectedness of the actual mechanisms involved. I would love love love to hear you guys talk about this sometime.

Really enjoyed this episode, as always! The compulsive lying thing in the Warrior Eli story made me think of Susan Orlean’s The Library Book. Have you read that one? Not a wellness topic at all, but Harry Peak, the man who was accused of setting the catastrophic 1986 LA Library Fire, emerges as someone with a very similar impulse to fabricate story lines, even when it would be to his advantage to stop. It’s a good book beyond that, too :).

Aubrey, Mike - I LOVE your podcast. Thanks for all the work you obviously put into it. You probably get a million topic ideas but something I would love is the hCG diet. Worst thing is my parents sweeaaar by it, they constantly spend more than $500 per "vial" of the stuff to eat 500 calories, and then like a year later - oh nooooo the kgs are back silly us for eating foods we like. I worry about them. When I was younger and before I knew better (with thanks to you guys in large part) I tried it twice, I would have been maybe 16 (start of my undue weight anxiety) and then another time at 22 (it totally weirded out my menstrual system and I was nauseous for months)... please destroy this ridiculous diet once and for all!!!!

AMA: Was there a specific moment or experience that made either of you realized the fallacy of diet culture and/or wellness, like an "aha moment?" I sort of had one like five years ago--10 years into on and off disordered eating behaviors and intense body anxiety-- when I was reading in some woman's magazine about the dangers of sugar and how much sugar was in fruit. I thought to myself, "Oh my god, am I eating too much fruit?" The utter insanity of that statement sort of washed over me and started my slow slog out of the wellness swamp.

Also, AMA for Michael--where all have you lived? I'm fascinated that you lived in Denmark, how did that happen? Do you speak danish? Out of all the places, which one has been your favorite place to live, which was the easiest place to live?

I'm sorry if this is a repeat but I can't get all the comments to open and there are just too many to do 10 at a time--AMA: how did you two meet? I love your show so much! Thank you for regularly doing patreon episodes bc every other tuesday isn't enough for me. Thank you for all that you do! And I love the music you picked for the show! It's so soothing

For the AMA: what do I have to do to get Aubrey’s book read aloud on Audible by Aubrey Gordon herself??? ❤️

How has your own thinking - about diets, nutrition, your own experience with health and wellness industry, doing research in the field etc. etc. - changed since you started doing this podcast? If you went back in time to talk to your past self from a year (or even going back further, a decade... ) ago, what would you tell them?? What changed, what have you learned or discovered that you would want to share with them - and us? Thanks! ❤️

For AMA : what podcasts are in your weekly rotation? Any past or current faves ?

I’m here to add to the requests for an MLM diet food/drinks/shakes/essential oils. Turkey you could feel dive into beach body and it’s toxicity from those portion containers to shakes. Also the YouTube ANTI MLM community has been a great asset .

Canadian living in the US here! 5% better is about right 😂😂😂

So first of all, I love your show. It is my all time favorite podcast and I get so excited when I’m notified of a new episode. In this weeks bonus episode, you mentioned commenting if we had topic ideas so here I am! I have heard you guys mention noom a couple times on the show and that someday you would eventually do a whole episode on it. I’m just writing to say that I would love an episode on the horrors of noom. My mother-in-law has been doing noom for the last several years and is obsessed. When I told her I was giving up dieting and trying to eat more intuitively, she immediately tried to get me on noom. It disgusts me the way this company disguises itself as intuitive eating when really it is just like all the other diet crap out there. Hope you guys get a chance to do an episode on it one of these days!

AMA: how has doing this show changed your perspectives? Does it play out at all in your day-to-day life? (esp for Mike) This bonus episode was a lot for me. My spouse died of complications from surgery for a rare cancer last year (neuroblastoma: about 800 cases a year, 90% in children under 5, most of the rest in children under 10, so a 26 year old having a recurrence from having it at 13 is ....... pretty much unheard of) and HOOOOOOBOY. On the one hand: my spouse (who was also fat, and couldn't listen to MP because it was too triggering) had some SHARP words for cancer grifters. And on the other: as someone who has been living a "too weird to be true" story (we were cancer brides!) it's infuriating to hear about people just making shit up. As you note, it's so destructive to trust, which is one of things that hold society together.

I stumbled upon r/illnessfakers or something like it once, they were rolling their eyes at a girl who faked a “real illness” by deliberately getting a leg wound infected to the point where it had to be amputated. I couldn’t believe people were choosing to dunk on the person doing this for “the attention”. Like if you’re willing to lose a leg for love on the internet and go through crazy pain, isn’t there clearly an illness there?!?! Also, Canada is just America with better PR. Yes we have “universal healthcare” except for medications, dental or vision. But who needs to see? Also for griftiness, see the convoy

I love Canada, but when Aubrey said the first story was fishy because Canadians wouldn't be so grifty, all I could think of was Jordan Peterson!

As a cancer dietitian f*** Gerson Therapy and apricot seeds! ugghhhh

AMA: Would love to hear ur thoughts about intuitive eating!!

AMA: What are you reading right now (outside of research for the show), and what are some of your all-time favorite books? Thank you for your podcast, I recommend it to everyone!

AMA: I’d love to hear all the things in one place, the sciencey things, about how fat is not in our control. We have different taste buds. We have more hunger and our satiety is iffy. Our blood sugar metabolism is nondiabetic but still contributes to obesity. A calorie is not a calorie, particularly when it’s us, and sugar is weird. When it’s us. All the things. Completely heart you both and the podcast.

Yeah, so as a person currently about to start chemo after a mastectomy for breast cancer, fuck them a little bit. I ate a completely “clean” diet for 9 years with literally no flour or sugar, and still had cancer developing in my breast for 3+ years. The moral overlay is insane. I told someone about my experience, and they were like, “well, were you eating meat? Yes, okay so it wasn’t clean enough.” Fuck that!! I’m going to go ahead and use the conventional medicine after my cancer ENTIRELY DEVELOPED while I was on a total 100% wellness diet. Blahhhhhhhh….

Medical conditions are not moral comuppance! you just made a fucking t-shirt!! 🖕🏽💜

So I was looking for a picture of Belle Gibson and found this. There's a lot to unpack here https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-23/belle-gibson-says-she-has-been-adopted-by-ethiopian-community/11895252

Where do I get a t shirt that says small man inside? love it!

I would love if y’all would do an episode on Cowspiracy or Forks Over Knives. I know one of the statistics in Cowspiracy is wrong (the methane gas emissions). Would be interesting to hear if there’s anything else to be debunked because those movies were shocking.

this was quite a wild ride!

AMA: would love to hear you expand on some of the dynamics between a romantic relationship where one person is thin and the other is fat 😊

I would like to know if Aubrey was ever involved in the fatshion Livejournal community haha! More widely I would love to hear Aubrey's thoughts on the impact of Livejournal and early blogging platforms on fat activism. Weirdly as a Brit, Axis Of Fat (an Australian fat activist blog) was maybe the most influential to me, and I still follow definatalie aka Natalie Perkins on instagram.

AMA (or full episode?): I would love to hear more about your thoughts on how fatness intersects with sexuality. I’m a sex therapist and BDSM educator and I have seen both the impact of fat-phobia on many people’s ability to receive pleasure, as well as sex and pleasure used as a way to access healing around people’s relationships with their bodies.

As a Canadian I like the slogan ‘Canadians 5% Better’. It seems like the proper smidgin. ❤️😂

In April 2011, Jessica's mother, Sharyn Ainscough, was diagnosed with breast cancer. Sharyn also refused all conventional treatment instead opting to join her daughter in Gerson Therapy. Sharyn Ainscough died in October 2013, two and half years after diagnosis, in line with expectations for untreated breast cancer 😔

Would like to place my order for an Aubrey + Mike 4ever wristband please and thanks.

What are you both reading right now? Can you recommend us some books/give us a tour of your shelves?

Would you consider an episode (or 10?) debunking pet health food fads? Would you consider taking your show on the road? How many times have you met in person? Would you please consider a Maintenance Phase origin story episode? (There have been bits here and there, they just leave me wanting more…wait Aubrey worked in a kindergarten? Michael did gymnastics as a hobby…in his 20’s?? So tantalizing!) Since you’re my parasocial BFFs now and all…😘

Request for a whole episode on veganism/plant-based eating! Being vegan is super weird because everyone loves to project all their food and health anxieties on to you and I'd love to hear what I'm sure are very wise thoughts from y'all.

This episode reminded me of a blog I used to follow by this woman Lara. Her blog was called the Lazy Organizer. I was able to find remanents of her blog on/in the Way Back Machine. She was the cute mom of like 4 or 5 that did a lifestyle organizing blog. Then she learned how to cure her depression and make herself feel better by eating differently. I think she mentions a raw diet but I don't remember. She then decides her kids have too many toys, so she's going to allow them to have something like 3 toys each. She also decides they just don't need so many clothes, so she gets rid of all their clothes and they only have like 4 shirts and pants. She keeps going more and more and more strict about herself and her kids, when she finally decides that being in a house is not the way to do things, that she needs to get rid of their house (which they had just built recently) and move into an RV and let the road be their guide. Last I heard they took off went to Canada and discovered it was very expensive and then returned. But not before she got rid of her blog. Which I did like in the beginning it had a lot of good tips about menu planning and organizing before it went sideways. https://web.archive.org/web/20090218123108/http://www.lazyorganizer.com/blog/?page_id=880

Bahaha. Am from Saskatchewan and I have to say… you guys would hate it here. It’s like Wanna be Texas Jr. (Texas jr. Is next door on fire more commonly known as Alberta.)

AMA: Michael, you’ve mentioned you’re a PK (pastors kid). How do you feel like that’s shaped you as a journalist?

Any suggestions for how to talk to people about their diet? My mom does intermittent fasting and it seems to work okay for her, but I'm reaaally skeptical/worried that it might be bad long term (one thing is that she's lost a fair bit of weight but still wants to lose more...she wanted to be able to fit into her wedding dress, which is hella small and simply not for a woman who has had children!) Should I bring up my concerns? If so, how?

AMA: Tips or resources on advocating for yourself in medical spaces? (I know this isn’t what y’all always do but I would appreciate it!)

Thanks for being my favorite podcast ❤️

AMA: Favorite snack?

When I was listening to the Belle Gibson episode, all I could think of was how similar the first pet of the story (eat my way and it’ll cure cancer) made me think of Kris Carr

AMA: Could you talk about gender performance, straightness / queerness, and fatness? I’ve been reflecting so much in the last year on this and they feel extremely connected, but I can’t work out how. Would love your thoughts. (Actually I kinda want two episodes—masculinity and femininity and fatness)

Maybe way-too-specific AMA: I’ve been reflecting on “cringe”—that is, enjoyment of someone else’s bad behavior / mistakes / embarrassing choices. (Contrapoints has a really beautiful video essay on this.) Do y’all think about this? What are your thoughts? And how do you differentiate when something is a useful embarrassing story to debunk, and when it’s cringe?

this episode finally gave me language to talk about something I experienced as a younger person on the internet!! I met a group of pals on tumblr (lol) and one of them not only catfished us by using someone else’s pictures but also lied about getting injured at work which resulted in a concussion & having amnesia and then she faked cancer a few months later. munchausen’s by internet. she owned up to it after a year or two of faking it. wow. thank y’all so much for talking about that. I’m so glad that I finally have the words to talk about it too.

AMA: A few episodes ago you spoke to a listener who wanted to try to get their mom to listen, and about how to have gentle conversations with your mom about her internalized fatphobia. In episode 1, Mike said what got him interested in fat justice was seeing the fatphobia directed at his mother. Does Mike's mom listen to Maintenance Phase? What does she think about it?

I'm in Australia, my friends uncle got cancer and followed one of these eat organic endless juice diets instead of chemo. Needless to say he died fairly fast in much pain (rejected pain relief) family was shattered but he wouldn't listen at all. His choice but very hard to watch 😕

Can you cover “Dr.” Ben Lynch? He’s not in the disinformation dozen but he very well could be!

Before you mentioned Munchausen BP, I was also thinking about histrionic personality disorder.

AMA: I’m confused by your health message regarding being overweight. Many negative health conditions like cancer, heart attacks, dementia, depression – the list goes on, give “excess weight” as making negative conditions worse or more likely. As a population’s average weight goes up so do such conditions. Do you disagree that being overweight contributes to poor health?

For a future episode, I'm not sure how grifty he is, but he definitely has mainstream health influence in the UK through many TV shows and books: Dr Michael Mosely. He kicked off the craze for intermittent fasting with a TV show and a book "Fast 800".

Not to in any way excuse or justify what she did but man Ms dear should sell that storyline for a soap opera cause wow 😂

AMA: Are either of you working on (or mulling over) writing a book? And did Michael convince Audrey to do a TED talk?

I really appreciate that you added a caveat on the "Munchausen's by Internet" thing, because like. Yes, on the one hand there are clearly people who are making up random shit on the internet. But it gets weaponized A LOT against disabled people a lot who have actual, real medical conditions - especially those that are poorly understood or heavily stigmatized like CFS/ME or MCAS - often when they're really just trying to connect with other people going through the same thing.

This isn't an AMA, but have you considered doing a show about Richard Simmons? Such a mystery that one.

AMA: Will you ever do an episode on biohacking (a.k.a. eating disorders for tech bros)?

AMA: have you personally tried anything that you have later debunked (or will debunk)? Even something minor. Could be anything in the diet and wellness space, or in self care. A few things I’m too “smart” to have tried (or have had pushed on me in the form of gifts from family and friends…) - magnetized pillows and jewelry, massage therapy with crystals, Ion detox foot bath, lymphatic drainage wands, bone broth soups (ha!), standard process supplements, intermittent fasting (skipping breakfast), switching to taking coffee black. Similar question: Do you take any vitamin supplements, even just a daily multivitamin? Thanks so much for considering. Keep on doing what you’re doing.

"Health conditions are not moral comeuppance" I need this on a gigantic poster that I can carry around and shove in people's faces

I'm going to need that Mike + Aubrey 4eva wristband.

hearing an american pronounce “saskatchewan” is always jarring for canadians 😂

As an Aussie. I lived through Belle Gibson and Jess Ainscough in real time and it's really interesting to see how it's been interpreted through retrospective research. BG, whilst most certainly has serious mental health issues including a mood disorder and in all likelihood an undiagnosed personality disorder, she knew what she was doing and had malicious intent. She wanted to be rich and famous and it did not phase her that she exploited vulnerable people. JA who was unfortunately platformed by our national broadcaster, the ABC (an add free and completely publicly funded TV network that is the most watched channel and news website in the country - also the most trusted incidentally) and it allowed her to flourish. She in all likelihood didn't have terminal cancer when she was offered the total shoulder quarter amputation after experimental treatment. She, like BG, became addicted to being beautiful and famous. Towards the end of her life she posted fake/misleading posts saying she was cured, she died not long after. She also convinced her mother who had curable breast cancer to forgo actual treatment and she died too!!! I think its easy to be retrospectively empathetic to these characters, it makes us feel like we are better people for having deep wmpathy, but in reality, these were women who knew better but pursued fame and money at the expense of others and their own health. Says a lot about modern society.

I would love it if you guys would do an episode on the plethora of grifty "exercise" equipment. Things like the Shake Weight come to mind.

What's your opinion on a plant-based diet?

i will 100% buy Aubrey + Mike 4EVA wristbands

I’d love to know your feelings on Dance Moms, Mike & Molly, and Extreme Weight Loss show with Chris Powell. Plus, Aubrey has mentioned a couple of times on the podcast that she’s (and I’m clumsily paraphrasing here) not totally in favor of Intuitive Eating and I’d love to hear more about why.

I would love you guys to cover the grift of devices that are supposed to mitigate electromagnetic waves like the Somavedic, which starts at $487 and as far as I can tell is just a cool-looking glass sphere. This bit from their FAQ gives you a great sense of the general vibe: "My Somavedic's effects reach our neighbors' flat; are they under its influence against their free will? First of all, we must think about the meaning of the term "free will". Its definition is as follows: It is the possibility of men to act according to their own decisions, not affected by other (outer) factors in a determinative way. However, quantum physics tells us that we are all part of one quantum field which has been carrying all information since the beginning of times. In this field, we are all surrounded by interacting particles and energies able to share and transmit information for infinitely large distances with zero delays. Space and time as we know them do not exist in quantum physics. Everything is interrelated, everything is interconnected! Which means that what this theory clearly says is that there are no coincidences and that everything always happens for a specific reason. If we decide to use Somavedic in our flat and its effects reach our neighbors' flat, it is clear that they are supposed to be in the sphere of its influence, too."

In the AMA (or as an episode) I would love your take on sugar being as bad for your health as many of these influencers state. Is the science actually there?

Bonus episode idea: Fat allyship (how to do it) I have really enjoyed Aubrey's writing on this topic, which has helped me start to integrate fat allyship with my other anti-oppression values. I would love an episode that contains both a broad discussion and specific, actionable tips (e.g., offer to raise the armrest when you're seated on an airplane next to a person for whom it looks physically uncomfortable).

I have 2 main thoughts, 1 more substantial than the other. 1. I feel like the fact that the girl behind Warrior Eli was literally a child for the majority of the time that was happening. Of course, children can have mood and personality disorders, but listening to what she was doing, it sounded a lot like how I used to use fanfiction and role playing - creating characters and writing stories. Of course, it went in a weird and harmful direction, but I think it is really important to take her age into account. 2. Pet food causes (human) cancer?! Who's eating their pet's food????

Have you considered doing a pet-focused wellness trends episode? NYT released this article this morning on that topic. There's a ton of similarities between the pet food industry and human fad diets (unfortunately): https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/dining/pets-diet.html

Shout out to Canada! We’ll take it. We have a rock group called The Odds who sang a song called “Someone Who’s Cool” and there is one part which goes: “if sympathy's the answer I'll have temporary cancer but that's not what I'll have you believe” Rings true.

Oh and would you consider an episode on the plethora of anti-aging products pitched at earlier and earlier ages?

I used to belong to a message board for a certain TV show and we had a member create an entire fake family, cancer journey, and eventual death (followed by her “husband” picking up where she left off). She never asked for money; I think she was very lonely and I felt really sorry for her (granted I wasn’t one of her close friends). For the AMA - do you think attitudes about weight, health, diets, fitness have changed for the better or are we just saying the same crappy things with different words?

As for the super size me episode...it creeps me out when people feel a need to comment on a teenager's body (not you guys critiquing this, I mean the person who thought it was a good idea to film themselves talking about a teenager's body in front of said teenager)

The first story in this episode really hit hard. I have a child with life-threatening food allergies to peanuts, tree nuts and sesame. Everyday, we encounter small health grifts: people who, at food establishments, say that they are allergic to something, when they don’t like it or when they have an intolerance (confirmed by one of those commercial blood IgG tests which CANNOT tell you what your food allergies are - a whole other grift). The consequence of this is that restaurants no longer take food allergies seriously, and we rarely eat outside of our home. Because, if everyone is allergic, no one is, right? When the cancer mom said that it’s hard to trust anyone, I cried. The number of times I will tell someone my child has life-threatening food allergies, and I get the response, “so do I! Well, I mean, when I eat gluten I feel bloated, so I’m allergic,” is so high and my stomach drops every time. My child has had his windpipe close down. I’ve had to give him an epinephrine auto injector to save his life more than once. I’m in therapy for PTSD. It’s not the same. Everyday I send my kid into the world knowing that he could die and I just get irrationally angry when people equate what we live with, with the gassy feeling they get from bread. And everyone is gluten free these days (screams into the void).

You know what I find funny about these "eating causes cancer" people? (And by funny, I mean 'classism')? The never talk about abestos poisoning or law suits where people are constantly suing corporations for never telling them XYZ was a cancer-causing ingredient. There's so many cases of this but case in point is the Roundup Weedkiller law suit. Long story short, but thousands of people developed Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma from using this weedkiller for years. Most of these people were janitors or landscapers who used the weedkiller in their daily work. Lots of people got sick. Lots of people died. And lots of people sued and some got a lot of money. And then there are hundreds and hundreds of people suing places like Boeing or paint factories because these factories were built with asbestos, and these people, once again, worked in this toxic environment for years, developed cancer, died, or, if they were well enough, sued these corporations for millions (sometimes they win, sometimes they don't). Again, these were usually manual workers in factories. My point is, the people who are actually dying from corporation-caused cancer aren't dying because of what they ate--they're dying from WHERE they are and where they work. Most of these people are manual workers, not office workers who, on average, make more money and have a higher education and are more likely white. And then you have cases of people, once again, suing corporations because a nearby toxic dump site caused an incredibly increase of childhood cancer by polluting their water. Of course the wellness influencers aren't talking about asbestos or weed killing causing cancer because it's something they never have to deal with. I'm betting most of these people live in wealthy neighborhoods were corporations aren't literally poisonings their water or having their family members come home covered in asbestos. This is not saying the justice system is justice because lol, we all know that's a lie. TLDR: why does these people never talk about asbestos???

I would love to hear an episode on that guy who went to prison & ‘discovered’ that water is the cure for all illnesses and being hungry is actually just being thirsty?! 😂 Fereydoon Batmanghelidj - my mum loved his cries for water book lol.

Please keep the crowd reaction sound maker a regular asset on the bonus episodes

Thank you so much for your brilliant podcast! For the AMA, I’d love to know what podcasts Aubrey and Mike listen to

For the AMA: what has been each of your favorite episodes to research for? Was there anything interesting/surprising you didn’t get to discuss for those episodes?

I was saying "Boo-urns." I'd like to see a Maintenance Phase-You're Wrong About cross-over episode on White Potatoes. They are very nutritious, but they got a bad reputation during the low-carb "all white carbs are bad" craze.

For the AMA-- what are your tips on addressing anti-fat bias in the moment? For example, someone saying "I feel fat" or talking about a public figure's weight gain/loss. What sort of responsibility do individuals have in addressing this? (Sometimes I just really do not want to get into it! It's exhausting!) Any tips for the fat people in "mixed-weight" (hate that term) relationships? Ways to help your partner be aware of the stigma you face/limits you have/etc? Obviously open communication is key but that can be hard in the moment... any scripts/things that have worked for you? I would also *love* to have an episode on PCOS!!! The research is all over the place and there are some pretty extreme online communities. It would also be interesting to hear about this in terms of how doctors typically focus on fertility first, rather than all the other effects of PCOS. P.S. I recommended Maintenance Phase to my mom, who has been listening. She recently reached out and apologized for propagating anti-fat bias in our home growing up. I'm very lucky that I have a great relationship with my parents but it was still so healing to hear her say this.

Sweet Jesus. This episode helped illuminate where my mom got the info that everything in the world gives you cancer and lectures me about how dryer sheets are slowly killing me and my children. Also she keeps buying "anti radiation" STICKERS for our phones and gets pissy when I throw them away. PS my mom was a pharmacist. A PHARMACIST. And yet fed me colloidal silver for my AS when I was a kid, so she's always been susceptible to this nonsense. But now she's mad about dryer sheets, so this Tyler dude clearly hasn't helped.

Episode idea: How much water do we actually need to drink? I'm sure the answer is "it varies," and I remember reading years ago that the eight-glasses-a-day number was meant to include water contained in solid foods. Nevertheless, I have a very health-conscious friend who drinks 2 L of water/day, so if that level of consumption is unnecessary, why does the myth persist? Thanks!

I'd buy an Aubrey and Mike "diet book" if it were a blank journal with the first page saying "it depends." 🤣

I have Hashimoto’s thyroiditus and there is so much grifting around that condition because the conventional treatment is so unsatisfactory. Plus it has a lot of vague symptoms and causes weight gain. It’s the perfect disease to “treat” with weird diets and alternative treatments. I got sucked in by a couple and now my defenses are on high alert when anyone claims to have anything to say about the condition.

I’d buy an “Aubrey and Mike Forever” wristband 😂

I posted before, so sorry for the repeat, but you said to ask anything in comments. I was hoping you'd do a deep-dive into Ableist & Anti-fat bias in Covid Conversations. The disabled community is talking about this, and I feel like many "well-meaning" educated liberals are not.

OKKKKKKK!!! I’m listening to this Warrior Eli story and it sounds SO familiar. Then you say Rootstown OH! That is minutes from my house! I’m sure I saw these posts shared when it was happening. And to bring it full circle: “Ohio. A paradise for the incompetent” 😂😂 Love you guys.

What sources would you recommend to those of us who want to do this type of potential debunking research on health recommendations?

Great episode 👏 Question: I started listening to the Huberman Lab podcast and was really enjoying how he explains all the scientific concepts and felt he was being inclusive and not fitting all people in the same box and also showing empathy for Mental Health, for example. I particularly enjoyed the episode about Dopamine. But then realised a lot of his work is around sports performance and also about fasting. I wonder what you think about his scientific approach to dieting? I'm also curious to know if others listen to him here and what you think? Thank you.

i never hear my name in the wild and it’s completely derailing my ability to listen lol

“Health conditions are not moral comeuppance”

Another great show that makes me feel grateful that I’m safely very far away from my twenties. There was a fascinating thread that developed on Michael’s twitter feed about JK Rowling and body shaming. Not a fan of HP, a little too juvenile for me—but it would be great to hear a discussion on how those books are worshipped and the troublesome themes throughout. Or perhaps children’s lit in general.

Could you guys PLEASE do an episode (or patreon episode) about Jane Brody, who has been spreading misinformation since 1976 with her NY Times column on health, even though she was just basically assigned the beat and has no health background. You probably know how anti-fat she is and also how she continues to promote low fat diets to this day. She was so influential and so wrong for such a long time! She just announced her retirement, but the damage was done.

Woof, this was an intense one for me to listen to! My best friend in high school sort of pulled one of these stunts. She made up a friend/boyfriend who was diagnosed with & died of cancer. She also created a brother for him, who I would talk with on Facebook. I ended up being on chat with him when he, as I really thought, decided to commit suicide. My mom called the campus police for the college he “attended” and they said there was no student with that name. That’s when it all unraveled for her. It was awful. The only thing she gained was attention and sympathy.

AMA: In an earlier episode Mike talks about being obsessed with an outspoken fat woman (I don't remember who) during his teenage years, and you talk about how that's a classic sign of being a queer teen. As a fat queer person whose (ex+) partners tend to be fat folks as well, where do you see the intersections of these marginalisations? And, related, how do you think left and/or queer feminist politics influence how people view fatness and weight stigma (etc.)?

I loved this episode. It hits home for me as I have a friend in the “sickfluencer” sphere and it’s always a delicate balance. As someone who doesn’t have chronic illness, it’s really difficult navigating the reality of my friends illness with the ways in which she engages in (or people around her engage with) “alternative” approaches to health, especially when these same people also identify as people with EDs. But my hard boundary now is I will never go on another vacation with 10+ sickfluencers again.

I tried googling Emily Deer (Dear?), and can't find anything! Where can I find more information about her?

i remember jess ainscough. i have a special hatred for cancer quacks. when i was 13, shortly after my aunt died of cancer, a cancer quack told me she would have survived if she had just wanted to enough. and as an autistic adult i have a special hatred for antivaxxers.

Could you discuss your research process and also digital organizational tips?! ❤️ the show!!

I actually knew a woman who lied about having cancer. Her husband found out it wasn’t true when she gave birth to their son and told the intake nurse that she had no history of cancer. He was like, “Babe—you had breast cancer a couple of months ago.” She had actually gone to alcohol rehab as a requirement of her employer to keep her job but she told her husband she was in an elite cancer treatment facility that didn’t allow visitors. 😳

Hello, favourite podcast! For the AMA - Have you ever had an idea for an episode that you thought would be fun but, upon closer inspection, turned out to be a huge bummer or just too gross to cover? Thank you both for bringing thoughtful conversation, intelligence, levity, and empathy to the difficult topics you discuss. Can't wait for the air horns and fart sound effects ❤

For the AMA - what *is* the deal with obesity and anesthesia? This was mentioned in the very 1st episode and a couple of times since. Is dosing for larger bodies really more difficult or is that stigma/junk science. This impacted my life in 2020 when I was doing IVF. My clinic has a strict BMI (ugh, BMI) cut off of 40 which they say is because of the anesthesia needed for egg retrieval in their out patient surgery center. But other clinics don't have this cut off. Are they really using different equipment? Different accreditation? Unfortunately in some fb groups I'm in I see people doing some pretty unhealthy things to meet these requirements and it would be nice to know if they're even meaningful or just the clinic trying to juice their numbers. (IVF clinics have to publish success rates by age. Higher BMI is correlated with lower fertility though it isn't totally clear why. Another potential topic though.)

The “wellness community” theory on dentistry linked to cancer is through the fluoride. Apparently fluoride is changing our dna??

I feel as though one of the biggest issues with the wellness industry is that they bank on the fact that the majority of individuals do not know how to decipher evidence-based information from junk science nor where to find accurate data. Do you have any advice for the layman on how to distinguish fact from fiction or sources you personally trust to find science-based information? P.S. I think what you’re doing is one of the most necessary and important undertakings. Thanks for all you do and thank you for always being devoted to the truth.

I became a Patreon at such a great time!

I just found myself googling "German crepe cake"

How do y'all like to get cozy when settling in for a long research sessions. Stuff likebyour Favorite focus music, drink of choice, a snuggie?

I'm totally disappointed in your statement that Belle Gibson didn't deserve jail time for her grift. She COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY doubled down on her scam and deserves whatever punishment she gets.

Omg pleasssse do a daily morning show 🙏

I was involved in the 2000s with someone who... I'd say *aspired* to be something of an illness influencer? What I understood coming out of that experience is that it's the people in real life who are damaged - in this case, there were aspects of what she said involving her children that were true, aspects involving herself that were definitely not true, and aspects involving herself that were partly or wholly self-inflicted. And I don't say any of that lightly - the family were our best friends, and all of us in our circle bent ourselves into pretzels for years to be supportive and believe everything for the sake of the kids, despite our mounting doubts. I had to deliberately remove myself from the online portion of everything going on, for my own mental health, and eventually we separated ourselves entirely from her as the extent of the lying came to light. It was truly devastating for us to lose such longtime friends and I'm sad for their kids to have lost a community of people who loved them.

For the AMA: Do you prefer cats, dogs, birds or rodents as pets? If you had to live according to some kind of fad lifestyle hack for a month which one would you choose? (Paleo diet? Bullet journaling? Daily gratitude? Etc)

Hi guys. I love your podcast a lot. I'm only partway through this episode, but as a disabled person pretty involved in the disability community, I'm concerned about the way things like "Munchausen by internet" is being talked about. Not because y'all are doing anything wrong, but just because the world is really hostile to people sharing about their chronic conditions online. There's a huge culture of spotting fakers that honestly causes more damage than the rare fakers themselves. I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the fakers, but just please keep this is mind while talking about things like this. I'm worried about the ways these conversations can lead to harassment of people talking about their disabilities online more than they already are just because of a phenomenon that already exists. The internet has been a great place for the disability community to find each other and share their experiences, and I just hope people don't listen to this episode and infer that they should be suspicious of disabled creators or call them put for faking with no evidence. Again, this isn't anything you guys are doing wrong, it's just something to be careful about as it could feed into a tendency that already exists. Keep up with the amazing work. ❤️

I would 10000% buy a wristband that says "Aubrey and Mike Forever <3"

Only part of the way through but I am howling with laughter at the “oooooh noooooo” from Aubrey at 18.42. It is the best thing I have ever heard.

Aubrey, what are your predictions for the end of Clayton's season, the next Bachelorette, and/or Best Unlikeliest Bachelor in Paradise Couples? (I feel like last summer was a doozy for them, so I have high hopes for this year). Maybe you wouldn't know it from this question, but I adore your podcast - thank you both!

Oh no, the Jess Ainscough story is very sad. I remember the way the Gerson protocol supporters turned on her as if she'd failed towards the end. I'm looking forward to some righteous Mike and Aubrey anger at both the way this was sold to her and then her own promotion of pseudoscience. (I also like this piece by Dr David Gorski https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-gerson-protocol-and-the-death-of-jess-ainscough/)

OMG the warrior Eli story - please tell me there is someone on here who was on Muslim tumblr for Samiragate. So many different connected blogs, preposterousness, Facebooks, etc etc

What is your investigation-writing process and how do you keep track of all the data?

When my sister was alive and in the years since, we would pointedly talk about her lifestyle and cancer diagnosis with "food is the cure" people. Because my sister was a power lifter who ate extremely healthy, had physically active jobs her whole life, and still got a rare, terminal cancer. She was actually lifting weights when she got the diagnosis. And when we talk about this it shuts those people up, either because they don't have a retort or they didn't want to say shit to someone who was actively dying. Those people still make me mad and I still rail against them when I come up against them.

It's one thing for a grifter to try and pass off their fake 'natural cures' for cancer. It's a completely different ball game when someone who has cancer does it. And like Mike said, people who see cancer as some sort of moral failing make me soooo ragey.

Oh hell yeah unfluoridated water squad! I grew up on unfluoridated well water and had two root canals by age 23, plus one extra crown due to a broken molar at 24. Cheers to bad teeth! On a related note, I'd love an episode about dental grifts/other BS and the ways that tooth decay and oral health issues are so deeply moralized (or molarized, if you will). Having recently found a dentist who is both very kind and doesn't cast judgement on my poor dental health, it's really sunk in how much "personal responsibility" has been pushed as the only reason for my teeth having issues; my current dentist has even said that some people just have teeth that are prone to cavities regardless of hygiene and some people who clearly don't brush or floss regularly have teeth that never have any issues. I'd also love to hear you go off on anti-flouride people. For the AMA: do you have any other wacky stories from doing this or really any other work like Aubrey's canvassing stories? Even more of those would be great; my fiancee did a paid canvassing stint a couple years back and it really made me appreciate that work. Also for Aubrey (and I guess Mike if he has any): got any fun dog stories? I've got a 60 lb 9-month-old puppy and I love hearing about other people's dogs doing silly things.

My mom died of breast cancer that metastatized to her brain several years ago. After the funeral, my brothers and I went to a taco place for our own memorial service. (We were playing a game of trying to come up with as many of our mom's sayings as possible.) The waitress was young and friendly and asked us after awhile what was going on, so we told her about our mom. And I will never know what possessed her to say this, but she said "Oh that's too bad that your mom didn't know a juice cleanse would save her life." I think I blacked out from rage and could not trust myself to say anything, leaving my most conciliatory brother to say something like "yeah, too late for that. Can we get another round of drinks, please?" Thank you for shedding light on these ridiculous grifts.

Not for the AMA, but thank you to both of you for calling out the health = morality grift! As someone with an autoimmune disorder (yay Crohn's 🙃), it's amazing how often people seem to imply that this is something I did to myself. I know lots of other chronically-ill people are in the same boat and it SUCKS. I already have to worry about my body and what I put into it 24/7; I do not also have the time to somehow justify my illness to randos who think veganism and turmeric will somehow fix my immune system. Feeling incredibly seen today, thanks Aubrey & Mike!

Oh wow. The Warrior Eli story is just such peak Internet Drama. Honestly reminds me quite a bit of the stuff that used to go down in fandom circles on Livejournal. Except instead of writing fanfiction she concocted the elaborate storylines with facebook profiles instead.

Does your podcast have any corrections so far — facts you thought were correct but later discovered weren’t? And/or, have any of your previously (on this pod) expressed opinions evolved dramatically, where you wish you could go back and say something differently?

Have you listened to sweet Bobby podcast? It's about another young woman (in England) who does another decade long grift with endless profiles/characters someone gets really harmed in that story. I think you'll be captivated!

My question - there have been so many tropes lately on TV and in movies and books about bigger bodied women who get the attention of conventionally attractive men. I read a book recently where a bigger bodied woman ended up with a famous actor (think Chris Hemsworth) and watched a show recently where a bigger bodied woman was being chased by 2 men who could have been body builders. Now, I don’t think this couldn’t happen, but my question is: do you think this is helping or hurting the body positive/body inclusive movement? Is it giving bigger bodied women a voice in the industry and showing the world they could also be the love interest of these types of men, OR is it a total miss? Love the show so much! I found this show right when I needed it and it helped me through the hardest times of my diet culture recovery. Love you both!

How did y'all meet, Aubrey and Michael? Aubrey, what do you daydream about in terms of future projects, jobs, etc.? Any organizations/facilitators out there that do trainings around weight bias/antifatness effectively, as far as you can tell? Thumbs up to the question above re: what you've learned and would recommend about what to look for when assessing the methods of a study.

Resident of Saskatchewan, Canada and obsessed with Mike’s pronunciation of the province 😂

“Cancer causing emotions” - I’m having a similar moment to when Aubrey reacted to the dental health cancer link claim. 😳

Hello, I’m gonna get right to the question- in the past 5 years I became one of those people who was fat and then dropped all the weight. I believe before Aubrey you have pointed out how too often, those of us who were fat and then lost weight end up being the biggest bullies to fat individuals to summarize. Any advice you can give to us in this crowd to be better allies?

Honestly I’m sort of bummed that Mike and Aubrey haven’t followed up on what’s happened to Belle now as it’s TRULY wild (she discovered religion) but I totally understand the desire not to continue piling on a young woman who quite frankly is probably experiencing or has experienced some sort of MH crisis at this point. That said I think the Jess Ainscough story merits a full episode on Gershon in its own right (it’s based on crazy junk science from Germany in the late 1800s, strong crossover with homeopathy, Jess persuaded her MUM to use the Gershon diet etc)

When Michael said "Ty Bollinger", I thought it was "Try Bollinger!" Now there's a grifty diet I could get behind: I cured my chronic condition with champagne! I'm also delighted to learn what bone broth is. I assumed it was some magic concotion of bone marrow or something. Who knew that when I boil the chicken carcass for soup after the Sunday Roast that I was creating a keto superfood?

What are your best research/ methodology critiquing tips?

Aubrey - what is your opinion on Intuitive Eating and do you feel it has helped or hurt the fat activism movement?

If you could each choose your dream guest to join you on and episode of the pod to discuss any topic, who would you pick to join you and what would the topic be?

The EDIT collaboration wanting to research eating disorders with "weight management" and why they were so very resistant to listening to us (going so far as to tell me I am an oppressor for opposing such research).

not sure if you have answered this before but i would love to know how you two met and how you came up with maintenance phase? Also if there are any topics that are frequently requested that you don;t think deserve an episode?

Are you interested in doing an episode or maybe a bonus episode on My 600 Pound Life? Or the way these types of shows stigmatize fat people and portray them as sort of circus animals, while pretending to be empathetic towards fat people?

YeS!!!! I cant wait to listen!! Every time I hear the theme music I get all the happy feels - can we have it as a track please so i can listen to it about town!

Dropping everything for this now

Tfw u have a slightly dyslexic moment and read the name as Anise-Cough and go "....eh! that works" 😆