Therapy Deep Dive: What is Autism?

Thanks for a great episode. As someone on the autism spectrum I would really love more videos on the topic :) I also really liked how you described that its not neccesarily a disability in itself. I try to look at it in the same way. It can feel like a disability though in some situations. For example when it comes to sensory problems and having meltdowns. I have learned myself to use for example earplugs to not get over stimulated by sound in public and to give myself sensory breaks, using weighted blankets to regulate etc. But with the rigth support you can have a great life with autism. I cant think of any characters, but I really liked the Temple Grandin movie if you have seen it. Its based of Temple who is autistic herself. Again thanks for the video.

The Good Doctor! (Also a TV Show, but I'd love to see your professional take as the main character is canonically on the Autism Spectrum.) My other possible character would be Will from Good Will Hunting. I know he is depicted as having Savant Syndrome, but I would love to see if he would also fall under the spectrum category as his interactions with people are the driving force of the movie. My fiance has Autism Spectrum Disorder, and he has noted that sometimes when he identifies behaviors that seem to him like an autistic trait, sometimes they are actually coping mechanisms from trauma. "Masking" is a big example, where My fiance 'masks' to better show his emotions in a way others can understand, and sometimes someone who has survived a traumatic situation 'masks' their emotions to match what others expect of them and protect themselves.

Mercury Rising - the height of stereotypes. I would love to see a female depiction, or better yet a more diverse neurodivergent adult, rather than only a difficulty a child needs support with, that suddenly disappears when they hit adulthood. Adult life as a neurodivergent is exponentially harder than childhood, as there is little to zero support, especially for those not in e.g., supportive residences or already have established carers/supportive networks. Many of us just go about our somewhat subjugated and unsupported lives, working and paying bills like everyone else. Also, those of us with ASD and ADHD (AuDHD) can feel alienated from those that have solely ASD or ADHD because having both really is different. Having conflicting neurodivergences (AuDHD) is very complex and not particularly supported in society, especially for adults (and less so for those from diverse backgrounds, especially for females). Sometimes things can get lost in the more theoretical aspects, such as terminology, and I think it's important to focus on meeting the needs and supporting those already existing with neurodivergence, and struggling to navigate their lives alone. It is also often depicted as a thing to overcome. "That person did so well, in spite of their autism", etc. It is the very nature of "twice exceptional". It is never appreciated for what it is. The focus is often on what caused it and how does society get rid of it or medicate it or normalise it, and not just accept it for a natural, biological and neurological difference. Autistic people have done wonderful things, just like neurotypical people have. I would like to see appreciation for things such a person can do due to their autism, not in spite of it. It would be ideal for this to be normalised in media and general representation, rather than the current trends of having autism as being the main feature of a character.

Quinn Dexter (Autistamatic on YouTube AND Patreon) has an amazing and quite frankly overdue view of autism that he calls "The Triad of Distinction" (as opposed to the usual list of deficits we get saddled with). I highly recommend you watch his video series (How I Made Autism Make Sense parts 1, 2, 3) about it. He was diagnosed at 13. One of his points (very well-made) was this: "Most of the foundational beliefs about autistic thought, feelings and behaviour didn’t come from people who actually KNEW. They were the theories and assumptions of non-autistic academics based on one-sided observations of mainly institutionalised, largely non-speaking children. Forty years of progress from my own diagnosis hasn’t seen those core assumptions of deficit, impairment and poor life outcomes shift very far, and you have to ask yourself… Why DIDN’T they just ask us?"

I can't think of any characters at the moment, but I would actually like to see someone who is on the cusp and flew under the radar. I definitely have ADHD but suspect I have a hint of autism (obviously I was never diagnosed).

I found The Unbreakable Boy to be the most offensive depiction of Autism. I’m Autistic and even as a child I never nor did I ever meet another Autistic child that behaved like that. In my opinion, the two Autistic characters that I relate to are Shaun from The Good Doctor, and Rick from Rick and Morty. I’m not a genius, but however, I see the behavioral patterns in both of these characters to be accurate. I obsess over things. I say, whatever is on my mind. I have amazing long-term memory. However I’m 31 years old and struggle to make a single friend.

High functioning autistic engineer providing feedback. I would LOVE for you to expand the 2nd part of the video 'ADHD as a superpower.' A possible Cinema Therapy example is Newt Scamander in Fantastic Beasts: several autistic behaviors including socially awkward, but he builds on his strong passion (another autistic tendency) to become a world expert on magizoology and change public opinion. Celebrating autistic strengths and what they can grow into is a topic that doesn't get enough discussion!

What I would honestly love to see is getting rid of all the neurodivergent subcategories. I am not educated enough on the topics to be able to say that it makes sense for dyslexia and dyscalculia, but the symptoms of ADHD and Autism have so much overlap it's ridiculous. On the other hand, if you have both, the symptoms can cancel each other out or only show up in very disctinct situations. I didn't think I'm autistic because I thought my problems with routines were that I couldn't have any, which is an ADHD symptom. Until one day I forgot I had a casual meeting with friends and for that evening I was very excited to do a 'me' evening. When my friends asked where I was and if I was still coming I had a full blown meltdown over it and was neither able to go to the outing, nor was I able to relax and enjoy the time for myself. On the other hand, the slight OCD I have that's probably more on the autism side, prevents me from being late to anything. I'm 2 hours early to an appointment if the alternative would be being 1 minute late. And so on. If you are gifted on top of that it will mask a lot of other symptoms. Is being gifted considered a neurodigency by now? That it can be a standalone diagnosis (or not even that, pretty sure my therapist told me that it is not recognized as a diagnosis) is ridiculous. I don't think I ever met a gifted person who doesn't also have ADHD or is autistic. The only thing that really needs a distinction is the Dopamine imbalance that causes the ADHD symptoms. So if you get a neurodiversity diagnosis it should be checked out if the meds can help (if the person wants that of course) I just wish the diagnosing process would be 'Okay, your brain works different than is considered typical, let's check what symptoms that gives you and treat those' instead of 'Something in your brain works different, but you don't show enough symptoms for it to be ADHD or Autism, so I guess we are dealing with neither. Let's diagnose you with Depression instead' or 'You have ADHD, there are other symptoms, but we can ignore those because they don't fit with ADHD so they are probably a co-morbidity. Let's diagnose you with Depression on top of your ADHD'. Regarding rep in TV: I know Sheldon from Big Bang Theory is not good representation, but I loooved the episode where he makes Leonard wear an itchy shirt to show him how his brain feels when things get out of order. Was in one of the later seasons. I also loved the Episode where he told Penny that he knows that sometimes it's hard for people to deal with him, but the constant ridicule and comments like 'pull yourself together' etc. is really hurtful. I can't remember the whole speech but it was really touching. I saw someone say that Dr. House in House M.D. is autistic coded and... I am not really sure. I know the fandom treats him as autistic, but it's difficult with him because you never know if he does something just to actively annoy people or because he really needs it (thinking of the episode with the patient with Autism where house insists of getting his carpet back even though it's ruined with blood stains. Still debating if he really hates change that much or if he just wanted to be an ass because he felt like it) Sooo would be cool to have a professional look at his character and make an educated guess.

As an AuDHDer who is a clinical mental health counselor in training for 2e (mostly ADHD/ASD/AuDHD) children, adolescents, and young adults who lives in Cincy, this was weirdly on topic for me lol. I’ll hold a lot of my more specific thoughts and reactions, because I’m not sure they’re helpful, but I do want to say that there’s a lot of overlap between ADHD and ASD and when you consider how comorbid they are the labels start to lose their meaning when you work with those populations consistently. So I agree with Jono, but I actually would expand it to include ADHD as well. There are also elements of ASD in the neurodevelopmental disorders section of the DSM5-TR, like language disorder, speech sound disorder, and social communication disorder. In terms of representations, my two favorites come from TV. They’re Gregory Eddie from Abbott Elementary and Captain Holt from Brooklyn Nine Nine. Both shows highlight realistic portrayals of NDs in a loving and respectful way while not shying away from the difficulties. I’m also biased because they also represent ARFID, which myself and a lot of my clients have.

Rain man, Dustin Hofman

Great episode. So happy to hear the cincy children part as a dude from there.

I know the general rule is no tv shows, but Everything's gonna be okay has the best representation of a masking autistic person that I've seen in any media. I feel like season 2 also really showcases how important it is to, as Jono mentioned, meet in the middle when it comes to relationships between autistic and allistic people. So I would love for you to react to that!

Thank you for this video. I would love a full episode on it. My diagnosis was freeing. After 35 years I finally know that I am not broken. Not only has it helped accepting myself, it also made me a better teacher, because I am more aware of the struggles of ND children.

I liken Autism to computers. Most people run Windows. A few run Apple. Minor but workable differences. And then there's Linux. INCREDIBLY capable but with a major learning curve that greatly rewards you if you're willing to learn.

The le 'tism menu 💀

I have a suspicion that a large part of your viewing demographic is on the spectrum (you teach us how to read people and set boundaries and a lot of us learned how to mask from movies and shows). When I was diagnosed 2.5 years ago I was diagnosed officially as “autism spectrum disorder, level 1, without accompanying intellectual or language impairment”. As I understand it the levels are based on if you are able to live with or without assistance. Getting an autism diagnosis as an adult is expensive and rarely covered by insurance (I believe the typical cost is 3k). I was very conflicted about getting diagnosed because of my preconceived ideas about what autism looked like. I thought “Im a flight attendant-I love people and love to talk-I cant be autistic” but after the pandemic when we stopped wearing masks it was hard for me to make eye contact with people and I remembered that as a kid I had to train myself to do that and realized that thats not typical. There were a lot of small things I assumed were typical that weren’t-for instance I assumed everyone hated the sounds of hand dryers (except Dyson) but we all used them because we wanted to be good people. I thought we all hated the flashing light shows at concerts but didn’t react because there were other stimuli to focus on. I agree that there should be some distinction between the different kinds of autism but that its hard. When I tell someone Im autistic and they tell me about their family member who lives with assistance I feel like an asshole. A book I recommend (and I myself need to finish reading) is “unmasking autism” by Devon price YouTube channels on autism- dr Tracey marks, mom on the spectrum, yo sandy sam, how to adhd. There are also some great ted talks. When you make your video some thing to note or talk about are women and POC who are rarely diagnosed until later (if ever or are diagnosed with bipolar disorder instead) and are demographics who are pressured to mask more because it’s not safe for them to unmask in public. Please have someone themselves on the spectrum on the show as we are often talked about but not included in the conversation. Please also have adult examples as we are often talked about as children (autistic children become autistic adults).

Favorite autistic characters 1. Lemon-“bullet train” 2.cordelia cupp-“the residence” 3. Wednesday-“wednesday” 4. Jess day -“new girl” (watch the flashbacks of her as a kid) 5. Phoebe Spengler-“ghostbusters”. Dan Aykroyd from the franchise is autistic. 6. Capt holt-“Brooklyn 99” 7. Elle woods-“legally blonde”

This is gonna be a weird take. And I’m gonna say a lot of words. I’ve watched the word change a lot when it comes to how society treats anyone who is different and has any type of disability since the 70’s. I got a crash course at 6 when my brother was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and a million other things that meant he would never talk to us and that he would always require our protection and guidance. In the 70’s there were no protections for anyone. No ADA. No education rights. Nothing. And no empathy that I saw. (If you really wanna know how bad it was watch Geraldo Rivera’s report on the Willowbrook State School. The verbiage is way outdated. And it’s horrific. You’ve been warned. I watched it as a kid because it was making the rounds in meetings my mom attended with other parents.) My mom was told his diagnosis in a theater at the hospital in Louisville. My brother was literally a case study for a bunch of students. My mom was basically told nothing. I watched her fight for every small thing he got for years. But, things did change. Little by little. And with those changes I saw more and more. He was finally in a real school doing IEP’s and had wonderful, caring teachers. And one day he grew up, and I left. And my parents had to make the hardest decision of their lives. He had to go enter full time care in the 90’s. They were no longer able to care for him. With his needs it took a village, and I couldn’t stay forever. And then after making that horrible decision, the state of Alabama shut down all of the facilities for caring for the disabled and he ended up being left out in the cold and in a group home. In the 2000’s that home got shut down because the owner was a pos. The workers were fantastic. That needs to be clear. I was his legal guardian, and I watched these people like a hawk to ensure that. But she was greedy and didn’t care. She eventually was arrested for writing scripts during the opioid crackdown. Yep, she was a doctor doing this. A lot of the shut down was over Medicare and Medicaid fraud. But, I made sure he was in a good group home after that and he stayed there until he passed. But even how he passed was marred by the system. They never told my mom, me, or anyone else in his 41 years that cerebral palsy, which was only one of his many diagnosis carried the risk of aspiration. We knew he’d had aspiration pneumonia off and on for years, but no said it was because of his issues. And they never said it would kill him. But it did. He had a seizure, aspirated and died. Then told us they expected it to happen. Having watched all of this. Having lived this. I about lost my mind, and eventually left my last job because the system is still broken. I was in child welfare. Every single foster child I had was diagnosed with autism. All of them. Now, they had other diagnosis as well. Conduct disorder and Reactive Attachment disorder being the top 2. Which I expected. They’re in the foster care system. But, it just seemed odd that every last one was given the diagnosis of autism. It’s like they just used the term as a short cut for how a kid deals with trauma. I viewed it as lazy tbh. Of course they’re processing the world differently. They’re traumatized. Maybe address that. To be clear this is not the only reason I left. The system as a whole is broken. But it really highlighted to me just how far broken it truly was. And how far we still have to go. Maybe I’m a cynic, but just don’t ever stop advocating for yourself and those you love. The system is always going to be there. Some parts are great. Others not so much. Just never stop fighting for what you know is right. And never stop bucking against that system to make it better.

Thank you both for covering this topic! I upgraded my membership to watch this video with my girlfriend, an Autistic mother of two--both of whom are also Autistic. She overall appreciated the video and noted that you picked good sources and creators to refer to. She did have a bit of feedback on how Autism is framed here that she wanted to share: The first has to do with linguistic identifiers. Many Autistic People prefer to be referred to as Autistic People rather than People with Autism or People who have Autism because Autism isn't something that comes in episodes or has a pause button. It is an integral part of an Autist's identity and experience of the world and framing it as something they have or something with them also suggests that it is like an item from an inventory list that is added to their identity rather than a component of it. The second has to do with Jono's framing of Autism diagnoses within a spectrum and the likelihood that it will be separated out into multiple diagnoses in the future. She points out both that this was attempted once before by separating Autism from Asberger's Syndrome and the separation was eventually abandoned because it turns out traits don't cluster cleanly enough for Autistic People to consistently fit into one category or another. Overlaps were so common that the separation turned out to be pointless, to say nothing of the fact that diagnosing someone as Autistic versus Asberger's Syndrome would also frequently result in the connotation that one was more "functional" than the other and contributed to stigma against Autistic People. She also points out that Autism currently is diagnosed in three different types depending on how rigorous the support needs of an Autistic Person may be. As for depictions of Autism in movies and TV to cover in future episodes, here are some suggestions from the two of us for characters that are explicitly identified as Autistic (which frequently results in being portrayed in a stereotypical fashion) versus those who are coded as Autistic (which often results in more accurate or positive depictions). Explicit: More accurate: Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close (Oskar), Ezra (Ezra), Sesame Street (Julia) Less accurate/stereotypical: Rain Man (Raymond), Music (Music), The Good Doctor (Dr. Murphy) Coded: More accurate: Lilo & Stitch (Lilo), House (Dr. House), Star Trek (Spock) Less accurate/stereotypical: The Big Bang Theory (Sheldon), There's Something About Mary (Warren), Adventure Time (Princess Bubblegum) We would also like to echo the sentiments of another commenter here and suggest an Autistic Person join the two of you for an episode talking about portrayals of Autism both for an Autistic perspective on those portrayals as well as to add some neurospicy flavor to a special episode of the show! As they say: nothing about us without us! Thanks so much!

Alan! You aren’t alone — I’m watching this video with an ADHD diagnosis going: ‘is this video talking about me?’ I always had some misconceptions that were different regarding Autism. I would have to say if you guys could rank movies & media that accurately to inaccurately depict autism. Have a good rest of your day!

When you do your first Autistic CinemaTherapy episode, please invite someone with Autism to share their perspective.

as someone on the spectrum i approve of this

I'm sorry I'm commenting a lot, but I am autistic so obviously I am passionate about the subject. One thing I actually personally want to see happen for the autistic community is to have diagnosis taken out of neurotypical hands entirely. Right now people are constantly being misdiagnosed with other things when they're just autistic. It's a common practice to diagnose people with "less severe" disorders because there's no "cure" for autism. We don't want a cure. We don't feel like there's anything wrong with us. We just experience the world in a different way than neurotypical people do. The only reason it's considered a disability now is because we can't function the way that capitalism wants a person to function. That's not something inherently wrong with us, that's something wrong with the system. I would personally like to see the diagnostic process handed over to autistic people. We can sense each other with a good bit of ease. It's a common joke in the autistic community that a peer reviewed diagnosis has far more weight than a medical diagnosis, but I would actually like to see that become the standard. So many adult autistics want to help other autistics and autistic children so we don't end up being traumatized by the current system. The current diagnostic criteria is based solely on things autistic people only do when they're in crisis. A happy autistic can't be diagnosed with the current criteria.

https://youtu.be/hwaaphuStxY Had to find the original video 😆 Will come back later tonight to finish both!

Drax the Destroyer is a favorite depiction at our house. We also see signs in Benedict Cumberbatch’s Sherlock and Howard Bannister from What’s Up, Doc? There’s some suspicion that Matthew Macfadyen’s Mr. Darcy has some autistic traits too. I love the focus on meeting people where they’re at. My daughter wants to connect so much and has so many emotions, just like anybody else. Things just get processed differently. Very much looking forward to seeing more on this!

Ok, I know it's not a movie, but i love A Typical, but i was surprised to learn the actor that played Sam wasn't autistic IRL. So, I'm interest to know if he did a good (or not) job

My favorite line from that video was: "...adding rich diversity to our world." I love talking with people who having different thinking processes than I do. It is genuinely fascinating. Also, this may be a bit of a hot take? I'm not really sure, so I apologize if I offend anyone, and am happy to get feedback. I feel like what we call "neurodivergence" isn't actually as uncommon as we have been led to believe. If anything, I come across far more people who have ADHD, or are autistic, etc., to some degree than not. I am also coming at this with the knowledge that not everyone in the world with these are actually diagnosed. It's like that meme I keep seeing online that says, "Not diagnosed, but everyone is pretty sure."

I disagree with you Jono about the need to segment the spectrum. Autism is a difference in the way your brain is wired. It shows up in different ways for different people but that's because they have found that no two autistic brains are wired exactly the same way as any other autistic brain. Neurotypical brains are all mapped the same, all autistic brains are not only different from neurotypical brains but also every other autistic. Segementing autism into different segments would just end up making diagnosis and accomodations more difficult to get for the autistic community, plus it would ignore the common theme that all autistic people share. We are completely unique.

Oh my goodness this is an episode I've been so excited for. My partner is on the spectrum and I love him so much and this will help me understand him so much better. Thank you internet dads!

There *is* a known cause of autism. It's genetic. It stems from Neanderthal DNA. There was a study done by university of WA that mapped the human genome and found the two genes that lead to autism. You need to have both to be autistic.

My favorite media portrayals would be Enola Holmes, The character Entrapta from She-ra, Moon girl from Moon girl and devil dinosaur.

Im so early!