FIRST TIME WATCHING: TLOU S2E7

Loved the season. Did not think the ending was as season finale ending but that doesnt make the season any less great.

For me, as a writer, Game 2 is a masterpiece in bold storytelling and thematic premise. Game 1 was incredible too, but personally, Game 2 blew my mind and I can respect someone who follows through with their thematic consistency (and message) rather than make a story that will appease the most people solely for that sake.

For me, as someone who nevr played the game and had no idea what was going to happen, I thought it was a really good show. I'm not connected to what any character was suposed to look like so I haven't had an issue with ANY of the casting. The second episode was impossible to top but that said I found the remaining episodes compelling and the penultimate episode totally subverted what I thought was happening and I know that most people probably wanted the second season to NOT do the game and give them those five years of adventures in between but loooook Pedro is a busy and in demand guy so I think this made the most sense any why really drag it out - I'd give this season an 8/10 and after some time I could see myself going up to 9/10

The show being as divisive as the game comes as no shock to me.

I think your take on the season is really fair. Personally, I liked where it landed, but I couldn’t help feeling like there was a lot missing. Season 3 is going to be packed, and this half already felt trimmed down in ways that softened the impact—especially when it comes to Ellie. In the game, Ellie is methodical, dangerous, and deeply shaped by rage and grief. You feel her unraveling as the story goes on. The show gave us the grief, but not the grit. I kept waiting for her pain to bleed into action—to see that steady rise in aggression, that sense that she’s becoming someone terrifying in her own right. Instead, most of that edge got left behind. That said, I’m still really looking forward to what comes next. There’s so much emotional weight left to explore, and if it’s handled well, it could be something truly unforgettable.

I was very disappointed with this season. They cut SO much from the game. I get it, you can't do everything. But the Ellie we got was not the Ellie from the game. Where she was Cold and Calculated, and a threat in the game. In the show she comes off Emotional, Dumb, and Lucky. I agree with others that say they took the balls out of the show. They seemed afraid to do anything that would paint Ellie in a bad light. They also cut a lot of her relationship with Tommy. That's her adopted Uncle! When you remove scenes where they build their relationship, make her not care about the shooting at the docks that he's a part of, I think you hurt her character. They also made Jesse a bit of a dick. I didn't like that. Idk, their trip to Seattle felt more like a vacation that any real threat. Now I know what it feels like to be on the side of "The Book Version Was Better" argument only is a video game. haha. They want a season 4, but honestly, I don't see it surviving past season 3 once we get it in 2027. Unless HBO gives them like 4 episodes to wrap it up or something. I'd kinda like to see you play the game, if I'm honest.

this season felt like a Disney remake compare to the second game...

I’m also getting sick of this trend in Hollywood (“trend” and it’s been like a decade) where writers treat their season finales like PENULTIMATE episodes. All buildup, no climax, and then the next season takes so long to get here that all hype has died and people have forgotten what happened. This is a further consequence of the death of the 22-episode season format, in this essay I will…

I think this is a crazy way to end the season, and not crazy good. I understand the narrative reasoning, because the perspective change is a big chunk of the game, and you get more going forward, but I would NOT have done it like this unless I had season 3 already in the can Agree it could’ve been a midseason twist, and you could’ve ended the season and set up season 3 about the final part of the game concerning the attack on the Scars and other certain plot points from the game, from both their perspectives. A bummer because I ultimately think the cast killed it. Everyone here should be up for an Emmy, and Bella Ramsey continues to carry thise emotional scenes. And seeing Ellie’s descent and dark moments as her need for revenge drives her to hurt innocent people… damn I honestly forgot Jesse died so that was a huge gasp for me, made better by your screaming reaction too 😭 but hey, at least Ellie really will get to be a dad now! Probably also a commentary in there somewhere about how we spent time with Jesse and got to know him and care about him only for him to be unceremoniously taken out, as people usually are in these scenarios - like everyone Joel killed in the hospital, and Ellie in her quest for revenge, and now Abby. And the cycle of violence continues.

I appreciate Natalie's reaction and objectivity; she always tries to put a positive spin on what she watches, which is why she has so many subscribers. I respect that. However, this episode was the most unsatisfying season finale I've ever seen! Compared to the first season's finale... there is NO comparison. This one was totally bereft of emotion and genuine drama. It was manipulative melodrama throughout, pure shock value for Jesse to die like that unceremoniously, and then a totally misleading cut-to-black/gunshots stinger. That lack of emotion and drama goes for most of Season 2. Aside from Joel's death and the Joel & Ellie porch confession, can ANYONE honestly claim that there were moments in Season 2 as emotional as these highlights from Season 1? 1) The heartbreaking death of Joel's daughter; 2) Tess's self-sacrifice; 3) Bill and Frank's love story and bittersweet ending; 4) The tragic deaths of Henry and Sam; 5) Joel's tearful admission to Tommy; 6) Ellie's reaction to Joel's decision for Tommy to take her to Colorado; 7) Ellie crying when she thought Joel was dying; 8) Ellie and Riley's tragic mall escapade; 9) Ellie taking out the cannibal leader and her reunion with Joel ("I've got you, baby girl") 10) Joel saving Ellie from the Fireflies and his heartbreaking decision to lie to her about it. WHAT in Season 2 compared to any of those tear-inducing moments? The reason this episode was unsatisfying was that it was NOT a season finale; it should have been a mid-season finale, because there should be a second half to Season 2. Although, it would not have worked as a mid-season cliffhanger either, because after a glorified cameo in the premiere and supporting role in Episode 2, Abby f**ked off for 5 episodes and only showed up in the last 3 minutes without any explanation for how she got there. That is NOT what you do with the antagonist. What would Die Hard have been like if Hans Gruber had shown up, made his speech, killed Takagi, then DISAPPEARED for most of the movie, NEVER communicated with John on the radio or met him upstairs, and finally reappeared holding Holly hostage at the end? I KNOW what the sycophantic Neil Druckman a$$-kissing apologists will say: "Abby isn't the villain. She's the heroine of her own story." You get ZERO POINTS for parroting Druckman's BS. As for the events of this episode, technically, things happened... but it felt like very little was accomplished in terms of plot, narrative, and character development. Ellie basically reached the aquarium and checked two more names off her kill list, then returned to base, having obtained no new information about Abby's whereabouts, which was a mission failure in my book. Along the way, Ellie had multiple melodramatic arguments with Jesse and demonstrated herself to be a sh!tty, selfish person, not having her friends' backs when she chose not to help Tommy and instead went after Abby. I don't want to like Jesse's character more than Ellie's, because his play-it-safe community-before-self paragon-of-virtue BS was insufferable. Still, there's no denying that Jesse embodied the traits of a heroic protagonist juxtaposed against the sh!tty person Ellie became since she turned 17, apparently. There was no ticking clock that forced Ellie to choose between helping Tommy and going to the aquarium. Ellie should've gone with Jesse to help Tommy, then they all could've gone to the aquarium together, because that's what happened anyway! The only difference was that Ellie demonstrated she was a selfish a$$hole who repeatedly had to be saved by her friends, despite not prioritizing their lives over her own wants. And Ellie cemented her status as a selfish PoS when she screamed, "F**k the community!" Ellie is such a terrible protagonist! Not only is Ellie selfish, but she's also indecisive and overemotional. She was supposedly on a mission to avenge Joel's murder, fueled by rage and grief, but Ellie was constantly sidetracked by every little thing undermining her conviction. Ellie was cracking jokes, singing, falling in love, and CRINGING that she was going to be a "dad"... then cold-heartedly hunted down Norra with a vacant stare like the T-1000, and expressed no remorse when she told Dina what happened. I understand the show tried to portray Ellie as a "good person" wrestling with the moral conflict of cold-blooded revenge; however, it actually showed Ellie was an insufferable, selfish brat who did whatever she wanted -- but what she wanted changed from moment to moment! If that wasn't bad enough, TLOU's "Men=Bad, Women=Good" agenda and sexist double standards were proudly on full display in this episode with Ellie's arguments with Jesse, and most of all, the way it changed Ellie's confrontation with Owen and Mel to absolve Ellie of any guilt for killing a pregnant woman. Because it was Owen who forced Ellie's hand by going for the gun. Ellie justifiably shot him, but inadvertently grazed Mel in the throat, so killing her was an accident. WHY? Because the show cannot portray its FEMALE protagonist deliberately harming a pregnant woman. Instead, the MAN provoked Ellie to shoot, killing him instantly (because he "deserved" to die for the crime of being MALE), and tragically fatally wounded the pregnant woman, the ONLY victim in the scenario. Adding insult to injury, the instant Ellie saw that the woman was wounded, and realized she was pregnant, she instantly switched from Revenge Mode to Crying Mode, inexplicably wanting to help her former enemy. In the game, Owen made his move to DEFEND Mel while Ellie was pointing a gun at her; Ellie shot him, then MEL attacked Ellie with a knife, nearly stabbing her in a quick-time event; if the player mashed the button hard enough, she reversed it and stabbed Mel in the neck. Self-defence versus a tragic accident; it's a total cop out for killing a pregnant woman. And just like that, Tommy and Jesse showed up, got Ellie out of there -- despite there not being any imminent danger -- they returned to base, and apparently Ellie's revenge quest was over because they decided to return to Jackson. Ellie just shrugged and accepted their decision, which was totally consistent as it's well-established that Ellie respects others' opinions and obeys what she's told. WTF!?! Who is this show, specifically this season, written for? Because the show treats the audience like IDIOTS who can't remember any of the characters' motivations. That avenging the murder of someone you loved is just a switch that can be flipped off. Making the 900-mile, month-long perilous journey across the post-Collapse Pacific Northwest, crawling with Infected and Raiders, successfully killing 3 of the 5 targets, but NOT the primary objective: Abby -- and then just giving up. That is not how real people or well-written characters behave. There were FOUR of them -- two pairs capable of accomplishing two different objectives. It's understandable why Dina should've returned to Jackson; she was pregnant and wounded. Her part in Ellie's revenge quest was over; that made perfect sense, no notes. Obviously, Jesse should've returned to Jackson with her because he was the father of her unborn baby, he could protect Dina and help her because her mobility was impaired, and he voted against seeking revenge. I respect that he went to Seattle for Ellie and Dina, but he never wanted to be there; his mission was over, he could go. Whereas Tommy was Joel's brother! He had every reason to stay in Seattle to help Ellie accomplish her mission to kill Abby in revenge. It made no sense for Tommy to come all that way just to bring Ellie and Dina back, and let his brother's murderer get away with it. Equally nonsensical was Ellie's pointless detour to Scar Island. I don't recall that happening in the game. In the episode, it was a waste of time and demonstrated Ellie's uncanny PLOT ARMOUR! The Scar-in-charge, a woman of course, was about to give the order to kill Ellie, but heard gunshots from the Wolves' attack, so she decided to just let Ellie go... because stabbing her or slitting her throat would've taken too long? WHY not have the Wolves suddenly ambush those Scars, gun them all down, miss Ellie (on purpose or coincidentally, doesn't matter), and let her escape!? The show is so f**king contrived! The ending might've seemed shocking to anyone who hasn't played the game, but I still think it's an inherently unsatisfying cliffhanger. It doesn't work as either a season finale or even a mid-season finale. It would be acceptable as this episode's cliffhanger IF the second half of Season 2 continued this Sunday, because it would have been a smooth transition to the POV switch to Abby. But for inexplicable reasons, HBO and/or the TLOU showrunners decided to split the season into two (or three) parts, to milk the series for as long as possible, but they didn't even film them concurrently. Despite TLOU Season 1 being a huge success and critically acclaimed, they couldn't get the budget to film a 14-episode season? They could and should have, because there was no overlap between Ellie and Dina's adventure and Abby's, until she showed up at the end. WHY couldn't they have filmed Abby's part in the same Season 2 production!? They could have gotten Ellie's 7 episodes in the can, sent them to post-production, and then continued filming Abby's episodes. Season 2 would've had the same premiere date, and Abby's episodes could've been in post right now, and the second half of Season 2 could've been released this Fall or Q1 2026 at the latest. I hate HBO and/or the showrunners for doing it this way. It reeks of GREED and HUBRIS.

You definitely articulated it better than i did. I had a feeling they were gonna end the season there but was really hoping they didn't. It works well in the game because you can keep going as opposed to a tv show where we are stuck waiting two years. I totally believe they could have told this entire story in a 13 episode season. And hearing now they might wanna stretch it out into two more season is a bit concerning. Stretching the story out for the sake of having content is never a great idea. But i do look forward to season 3 and cant wait to you get to know abby some more. She a real one lol

Look, I'm just going to come out and say it: Season 2 was a freaking trainwreck! It was a mistake to go with the second game's story and they did it even worse in the show. The Game's story cost the game franchise a lot of support, it was a mistake to kill off Joel and to try to shove Abby down people's throats. TLOU part 1 and 2 had two different creative directors and it feels like pure arrogant, hubris to insist on doubling down on those story points; It really feels like the TLOU 2 producers' ego would not allow him to acknowledge that his brilliant addition to the franchise was a failure and so he doubled down on repeating them in the second season. I don't want to be mean to Bella Ramsey, but she can not carry a show; a fact that the producers seemed to realize because they inexplicably made Dinah behave like the main character, as if she was the driving force on this quest for revenge. They have no chemistry by the way. They spend a good chunk acting like they're going on a camping trip, laughing and joking despite the ridiculous amount of danger they're in. The whole season was just a major nosedive and I predict that Season 3 is gonna flop after 2 years of people thinking what a disappointment this one was.

I love Nat's confused look at the end of the episode 🤯

It’s because the second game is like 3x or maybe 4x as long. If anything they’re trimming the Ellie half. There were like two more in Abby’s group that get dispatched before Owen and Mel, and there’s a bit more tracking everyone down at their respective sites. I can understand cutting that out, but you lose on the whole how single-minded Ellie is in her pursuit of revenge. It’s a bit of natural character-building by having a few more scenes of Ellie or the Jackson crew really being so relentless once she or them track them down. At any rate, the Abby half of the three days is my favorite part of the game and I love that they provided a few hints for this who know what’s coming in this episode. It really is a great arc for Abby and really rallied me behind her character in the game. I just hope season 3 does it justice.

There were so many things about this season that I loved, and only a handful of changes that I didn't like. Overall, a pretty damned good adaptation of the game.

Yeah the game really pissed me off with the whole shifting back and forth! and the ending was bullshit too.

oh wow.. they really are milking it.. this all could have been done in 10 episodes in season 2... good show but really disappointing

They’re retelling the story in a way that’s mostly faithful to the game’s structure, but deviates from the material. The main beats are still essentially the same, but something always feels like it’s missing. Ellie’s part of the game is definitely slow, but you dive into her mental/emotional state a little more (in my opinion at least). The season has great highs, but there are a lot of lows and meaningless moments that lose the momentum of the story. Ultimately, I was very disappointed. Fortunately, I love Kaitlyn Dever’s take on Abby, so I am very much still looking forward to season 3 and what they could do with her journey.

I think this season was just ok which I fully expected because of how the game is setup. I honestly wish they they killed Joel in the first episode, made the season 10 episodes, and spent the final 4 episodes covering Abby's 3 days. It just feels so disjointed where they left it and 2 years is a long time to wait, there's cliffhangers and then there's whatever this was.

Spoiler Free: The second game's story is a lot more complicated than the first, so I expected it to be a bit rougher around the edges. As a fan of the games, I absolutely adored this season. So many settings and scenes from the game were perfectly recreated and they really didn't have to go that crazy with it. But its also barely half of the story at this point, so I can understand the frustrations some have. I do think this show in particular will suffer because of what I assume will be a long wait until season 3, but I understand that's usually outside of the control of the creatives. Great reaction Nat! Also, your face at the end of the season was probably the reaction most people had when getting to that point in the game. It all happens so quickly and then... oh, good morning STADIUM?!

Loved this season. Don’t get the hate as the 2nd game is my favorite of all time, the show is a separate entity and the choices in deviation it’s making is paying off to me

Happy Thursday Nat. haha your face at the end 😅 All your questions will be answered when you spend Seattle Day 1 to 3 with Abby next time around. Overall the season was a disappointment. The writer deviated too far from the source material. I get that adapting a game to a tv show needs some changes. But nuanced ones for characters and situations, not blanket alterations to the characters and to the tone of the story. The show kept wanting to include key moments from the game, but hadn't shown anything to give context to those moments leading up to them. I think Craig Mazin the writer was more interested in telling his own version of the story. The game is set up the same way to give you Ellie's days and then playing from Abby's perspective. They could have done it successfully in a season of 12 episodes, if the writing hadn't been so meandering but I'm guessing HBO demanded they stretch it out for at least another season, so they chose that moment to end it on. TLOU Pt.2 is probably still my favourite gaming story of the modern era. I hope they can listen to the criticisms, and there have been a lot, that have been made of this season, turn things around and do the next part of the story proper justice. And even after everything she's done, by the end Abby is still my favourite character 😅😊 Thanks for your reaction today Nat, and for the rest of this show. I've enjoyed listening to what you thought about it 😊

I was holding off on judgement of the show until i saw the whole season, but now that i have seen the whole season, i can say that they missed the whole vibe of the game. They tried to make it more lighthearted but it didnt fit the situation they were in. They left out so much from the game where it creates more questions and confusion in the show and added unnecessary scenes that add nothing we didnt already know about.

I loved the season but because it is not a full story as there is more because game 2 is so long and has so much in it that i see why splitting it makes sense and why it doesn't feel complete like season one as it was the full story of game 1 in one season. I do think you will enjoy season 3 just as much if not more than this season and I can't wait.

I have mixed feelings, as well. I do not understand the direction they took the character of Ellie this season; it is markedly different than the game. The whole structure of this season was frustrating. Anyway, for me, it was a step down from what I considered an excellent first season. I am looking forward to seeing what Kaitlyn Dever does with Abby next season. The few glimpses we got of her this season were pretty great, so I’m still invested in the show, just not as much as I’d expected.

Hi Nat, I found some parts of this season to be amazing, for example the porch scene between Ellie and Joel, and other parts heartbreaking (the final scene in the theatre ** trying not to to spoil anything for those who haven't seen it yet **. I'm playing the game alongside watching this with you and that scene got me in the game and the show..

I thought the season was pretty good.

Season was 🗑️🚮