Angel 5x22 Not Fade Away

When I was a kid (I was about 12-13 when Not Fade Away aired) I hated the ending. I've grown to love it over the last 2 decades. Its perfect for what Angel is, was. His story always had the subtheme of redemption, of the 'alcoholic sherlock' That there's never an end, the fight never ends. You'll never be rid of the demon, you just have to keep fighting every day.

Coming back here now that you've seen The Good Place 4x09 (spoilers for folks who haven't seen that yet!): "Turns out life isn't a puzzle that can just be solved one time and it's done. You wake up everyday and you solve it again." I think that applies very much to how this episode ended. It's one of (I think) a few thematic overlaps between TGP and AtS -- I'd love to hear if anybody has other connections between TGP and this or BtVS. See you soon for the TGP finale.

This was wonderful. Thanks for taking us on your journey. One of my favorite endings. To me, it shows its not about winning or losing. THEY WILL ALWAYS FIGHT!

Well now I've watched your full react in sync with my copy and I have the appreciation of that experience. You were all hunched up with the intense drama. So was I! Again! Illyria 's tears to Wes in the guise of Fred, well, those didn't seem to be a put on. The god cried too.

Thank you for the wonderful Buffyverse journey with you Jules.

I WANT MOAR ANGEL THOUGH 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 also NO THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING🥰❤️ even though my heart is🖤💔from this episode

Haven't watched yet already know I'm gonna cry but I'm so hurt and disappointed knowing there was supposed to be more seasons more story and the only reason this season developed the way it did was because of a cancellation I'm still so MAD 😾 about that cancellation 😭 this show was TOO GREAT it did not deserve that I don't like that I left on a seeming cliffhanger but that life it gives you crap and you just gotta roll and make the best of it even if much doesn't come of it I have LOVED watching this with you most of all always my most excited for your reaction and it hurts that it's over it shouldn't have been they had more and mean person/people cancelled it 💔

Seeing you really get Spike's poem for Cecily was extremely rewarding. As open-ended as the ending was, seeing Spike's arc come full circle there is all the closure I needed. He's finally appreciated! Thanks for for sharing in a great adventure.

It's been an absolute honour to re-watch the Buffyverse with you Juliette. You have been an absolute gem in emoting your feelings that we all know we have when watching these episodes. Thank you so much Jules.:-)

I don't really like the ending they went for - or at least the way they did it. The whole "oh yeah this huge powerful group has been behind everything all along" feels cheap. Especially with the members all being people - well, monsters - we just happen to have seen before. This kind of trope is overdone and almost never feels deserved. But all that said, I do like this final episode. Lorne's part in it all is tragically on point. Of course the scenes with Wesley and Illyria are heartbreaking. Harmony betraying them all, and still getting the recommendation, is wonderful. And I like the ending. Its open-ended nature is controversial, but I like it. Not every story needs to have a happy ending - or really an ending at all. It is very fitting for Angel, the show, to end with them fighting the good fight, like you said. Oh, and I *adore* the scene with Anne and Gunn. She is my favourite character in the entire Buffyverse. She starts out as a meek little mouse of a girl, a cult follower, and we see her get stronger and stronger over time. And importantly, she continues to evolve when we *don't* see her. In the end, she is the most powerful character in either show. The question that both Buffy and Angel struggled with she answers with total clarity. "What would you do if none of it matters?" She gets the truck loaded before the new stuff gets there. She fights on. Just like Angel and his friends, but she does it without any special powers. To me, she truly is the epitome of the show's message.

There are lines of dialogue in 'Not Fade Away' which will echo down the ages. "He's not my boyfriend!" It's perfectly okay to shed tears over Lorne's exit, the most shocking moment in this. Big Green was singled out last time as the only guy who understood, who didn't judge. So even as Lindsay - who I love in his illuminati stool pigeon mode - was viciously dispatched, so too a part of Lorne is dead. The compassionate empath we knew may be gone in more than one sense. Contrast it with dear fractured Wesley's demise which is the stuff of epic romantic ballads, Lorne's fall arguably hits harder because he was a rock. And it does challenge whether Angel was a hero in the end? He killed Drogyn who wasn't given the choice everyone else got. Presumably Angel deemed him fair game as an immortal-type figure. My subjective reading is Angel may have thought if Drogyn had been around so much longer, why hadn't he taken on the Circle himself? 'Not Fade Away' discusses moral ambiguities but ultimately, priorities: the acquisition of power and quick exercising of it; acknowledgemet of sacrifice as a prerequisite; and getting up and just forking doing it. It's an episode that's personally important to me; at a key moment on top of many other things, it galvanised me to become a human rights activist for some ten years until I just wore out. I'm proud of that time. On a TV level 'Not Fade Away' dovetails thematically into the Firefly movie. So you could rewatch it (again), or check out my video essays on Season 5: In The Belly of The Beast (Part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vizjhI9GeT8 Not Fade Away (Part 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MZt1HrGEzY (And say you're there from Juliette's!) I've read the first ten pages or so of the Season 6 comic. I wish I hadn't because its conceptually quite clever and decently made. But its not my story. Where I think they are right now is in that alley, still fighting. Thrive and survive everyone.

Well, I'm a little late to this as I didn't get a notification yesterday (BAD PATREON!), but I just wanted to say that I've absolutely loved watching your journey through this awesome show, and thank you for taking us along for the ride. I don't have much else to say really as both yourself and the other commenters have said pretty much everything that I would have touched upon and so I'll just say that Angel is a show that had its ups, and it's downs (looking at you season 4!), but it's one that I'll always love and re-watch every once in a while for as long as I'm still around. Thanks again for your awesome reactions Juliette 💜

I was right there with you with Wesley dying. It never fails to bring me sobbing. "Would you like me to lie to you now?" Fucking kills me everytime. Thank you, Juliette. I've been with you on this journey since you started Firefly. I always say when I watch reacters I hate when I commit to them and there is no reaction. You have always been my favoriite. Your empathy just shines through. Once again, through Firefly, through Buffy, and now through Angel...Thank you. It has been an absolute pleasure rewatching these shows with you.

Put me in the camp that considers this to not be a cliffhanger. If we ignore the comics and take the text of the show at its word, we know exactly what happened. But like you say, the fact the show ends with them fighting is the important part. We all have to put in the work. That's the lasting imagery that matters.

The fact that five seconds after it ends we get to see the words "Pee Pee Demon" is gold. I believe Harmony did exactly what Angel wanted. He said someone would betray him, and even accused her of it in the moment, but I think that was for show. Because he ultimately wanted that fight with Hamilton. Thank you! Your reactions have been by far my favorite and while I don't have Apple TV so I can't continue watching with Severance, I hope to see you soon :)

Also if you want to be really sad remember that Fred's soul was destroyed when Illyria resurrected. So Illyria was lying to Wesley on multiple levels when she told him they would be together.

Congrats on finishing the Buffyverse as it stands! Here's hoping the coming installment isn't completely awful.

"What if I told you it doesn't help? What would you do if you found out none of it matters? That it's controlled by forces more powerful and uncaring than we can conceive--- and they will never let it get better down here. What would you do?" "I'd get this truck packed before the new stuff gets here." I think about that line a lot. Thank you for taking this long, strange trip with us...!

I was torn when it originally came out, but I've come to really love how this series ends. It's not about winning and losing. You don't get to just win one big battle and then rest on your victory. The fight is what matters, and the fight never ends. Not literally, for most of us, but there are a lot of opportunities for even regular folks to push back the darkness on a daily basis and it's good to be reminded of that.

Severance? Is that the show on Apple TV+? "From Ben Stiller, this series stars Adam Scott as a man whose memories have been surgically divided by his employer."?

And Severance!!!!! Gaaahhhhh!!! OMG!! I can't wait to see your reactions!!!!

That ending got us all!! And I agree, I loved it that they went out fighting the good fight. IDW Publishing continued it in a comic series, but I don't recommend it. I don't like what the writers did for what happens right after that last scene.