Angel - S05E015|♡Uncut Reaction &Review ♡

If there's a morally "normal," adequate character in a Joss Whedon show who behaves with dignity and has almost no flaws, at least none that are publicly stated, they'll probably be killed off. Maybe brutally.

Side note, the song Eve chose to sing for Lorne was the same song Lindsey sang in Caritas back in season 2 when he got his new hand.

Yup, I'm afraid JW brought his own little fucked up misogynistic narratives and feelings about women and birth to Angel. Obvs not unconnected with his treatment of Charisma. And now we have the only two women on Angel's team having been the victims of creatures using their bodies to give birth and destroying them in the process.

The book Wes is reading to Fred is the children's classic A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett. It is about a very bright little girl who imagines she is a princess in order to survive hard times at an abusive boarding school. Possibly similar to the stories Fred would tell herself to survive the horrors she faced in Pylea before she was saved by her handsome "prince" Angel.

Unlike with Cordelia and Joss' pettiness towards her, his cruelty was solely directed towards us (the audience) in this episode. Amy Acker was someone in the favoured circle and this was his twisted way to give her some beefy material.

My favorite Fred season was 3. Her good relationship with gunn. So she did have true love in her life. So the character can have piece.

Great acting by Amy should have got an Emmy. I think the core of any vampire show is they out live all the people they care about because there immortal. This and the Anya death were two I never saw comming . And Tara.

Of course the cavemen win, and of course Sofie understood the analogy immediately 💗

That moment when Lorne spun around in horror at the fate he saw when she sang…😳🥺. “Can I stay?” Now takes its place along side: “Can we rest? “Oh and you’re welcome” “Mommy?” “Your shirt?” “I’ll never forget…I’ll never forget.” as lines that act as spears directly into the heart. 💔😭

It made my heart ache at the end of your reaction to Smile Time when you said “Knowing Joss Whedon, I’ve convinced myself that I should just stop hoping for things”.

Illyria is one of my favorite characters in the Buffyverse. It's a shame we only got her halfway through the final season of Angel.

Lorne’s threats to Eve are too real, because like SoFie said he is the nicest member of the group, the one who does not try to be violent unless absolutely necessary. Part of me thinks he punched Eve because she said “Why would we even care about her?” And Lorne was offended because Eve should care, because Fred was the best of them.

This is one of those episodes I was both looking forward to and dreading. It's a masterpiece, but like Sofie said at the end, it's seriously the cruelest thing Joss Whedon has ever done (in his fictional works I mean.) The episode starts out light-hearted and fun, but ends with the saddest ending possible. I can't think of any other creator who is able to successfully segue from comedic to tragic so seamlessly like that. What's clever is that the "cavemen vs. astronauts" debate at the beginning summarizes the entire story of this episode. Fred, a highly-intelligent and technologically advanced modern person, represents the astronauts. Illyria, an ancient primordial being, represents the cavemen. The astronaut (Fred) is battling the caveman (Illyria), and the caveman won.

This episode...it destroyed me the first time I saw it. I was just clinging on to hope every second saying, "No, this is just a monster of the week episode, Fred will be just fine." Even up until Fred actually dying I was in complete denial. In the both Buffy and Angel universe, Fred was my favorite character. Her arc was so captavating. Cordelia was bad enough, but Fred? I really hated Joss Whedon after this episode. And that hate was furthered by finding out what an asshole he really is in real life.

Watching these shows again after finding out that Joss is an emotionally abusive narcissist who enjoys hurting people by using his intimate knowledge of their psychology against them shines a new light on the entire series. The whole 'finally give someone what they want, but then punish them with something traumatic for wanting it in the first place' is a common theme in his shows, and leads to some of the most beautiful/terrible episodes, which also happens to be a horrific tactic abusers commonly use on their victims, and there's nothing beautiful about it at all in that context. Using various abuser tactics to emotionally manipulate the audience with sporadic shifts between humor, action, joy and brutal gut punches is incredible when used artistically, then becomes horrific when used against actual humans in real life. It's an odd feeling, to love something as much as the shows Joss has created, knowing that what makes them so amazing comes from the same place that he uses to make people in his personal life miserable. As both a huge fan of his shows, and someone who despises abusive narcissists, it's an interesting dichotomy to try and morally reconcile.

This is THE Angel episode for me, the way The Body is on Buffy. The saddest, the most impactful and gut wrenching, but also frustratingly brilliant and beautiful writing/directing. And the performance from Amy Acker is truly spectacular. Really all the actors were on their A game. You’re probably going to be feeling all the feelings for the next few days so take care of yourself and your wellbeing. Sending hugs

Literally every time in this universe that a couple has gotten together, back together, whatever, this sort of thing happens. You'd think we'd learn by now.