Buffy The Vampire Slayer - S07x02|♡Uncut Reaction &Review♡
Beneath You
Buffy tracks a subterranean monster following her first day as a guidance counsellor at Sunnydale High School, and Willow says goodbye to Giles and departs from England.
Link to the reaction:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7lb7749tc3z1myn/Buffy%207x02.mp4?dl=0
Comments (38)
Spike returned to Sunnydale to die, not to gain understanding or even forgiveness. I mean, under such circumstances, who would want to show themselves to the person they were trying to rape. At first he says that he has changed because he hesitates, but in the end he makes a final decision not to talk about the soul. Maybe after Buffy says there was nothing serious between them. He doesn't even try to fight Buffy seriously, he just wants to separate her so she can finish him off. and confesses, in the end, only when the roof is coming off him again due to the pain of the chip and the wounding of the person.
Remember that time we all watched the last scene of this episode and slowly descended into sobbing messes at the utterly poetic performance given to us? Yeah. Me too. 😭 Oof GD it still hits every time.
It really didn’t take y’all to go “attempted rape? What attempted rape? Spike is too dreamy for that!” SMH
The acting in the last scene. OMG. I am sobbing and I have seen this 20 times at least. SMG is so subtle, and JM, OMG!!! You know what he did, all the horrible things, and you can feel it weighing on his soul. The spark. And he took that all on to be loved. Tragic.
Fun fact about that last scene that was so good ~ even though the episode was written by another writer, Joss didn't like how that scene went so he did a complete rewrite of that last church scene only & they reshot it completely different! Chillingly good right? Imagine if they had kept whatever it was before?
Spike character arc is the best one in TV history!!! you should check J. Whedon other series, Firefly. I'm pretty sure you will fall in love with the characters.
She looked so bored at the beginning. And ended up in tears. 😂
This show is my favorite show of all time, and there are so many great episodes, so much amazing dialog; but this scene for me is the greatest scene, not only in this show, but in all of television. I have watched this scene a million times and it still brings tears to my eyes.
I love how they use Spike getting a soul as a way to explore the complexities of forgiveness. Sometimes, people really do change for the better after being someone that did horrible things. Does that mean that anyone owes them forgiveness for things they did in their past? If they do want to forgive, how much atonement is enough? Is it ever enough? Anyway, great reaction as always! Thanks for sharing with us!
That ending sceeennnneeee. *chefs kiss* beautiful, shakespearean, and it's criminal neither James or SMG won Emmys for the show
"Thinking of you, holding myself, and spilling buckets of salt over your ending" has 2 meanings per Joss Whedon's usual writing. While this episode was written by someone else, Joss rewrote and directed that final scene. On the one hand, if could be about Spike crying and holding himself after Buffy's death in The Gift. On the other, it could be in mid to late season 6 with Spike touching himself and spilling other fluids thinking of their time together and Buffy's finishing.
I don't see the sexual reference at all in this sentence tbh .. the whole context of the dialogue points ina whole other direction .. it starts with "I dreamed of killing you, i think they were dreams" I feel that was referring to him dreaming that someone WILL kill/hurt Buffy .. "so weak, and you make me weak" probably in his dream he was too weak to help or protect her .. "thinking of you, holding myself and spilling useless buckets of salt OVER YOUR ENDING" so all he did was hold himself and cry useless tears over her death...he can not mean he was doing that sexual thing over her ending.. it makes no sense to me
Angel did terrible thing and people for gave him . Same concept . The writers should have never wrote that scene season 6 . Just to make people hate spike . Now they have to fix it. With the great scene in this episode. Great acting .
This Spike storyline is easily the worst storyline in the entire Buffyverse. I cannot stand how the writer's used what Spike did to Buffy at the end of Season 6 as essentially a landmark in a/catalyst for a Spike redemption arc. The whole incident is framed through the prism of Spike's self-loathing and how he's such a martyr blah blah blah, but comparatively almost zero time is spent on the trauma inflicted on the *actual* victim of his repellent actions. The writer's shift right past it and instead focus on what it means for poor, wittle Spike, and I'm like...who freaking cares! Why is *he* the story here after what he did to her!!! I genuinely resent that the writer's want me to feel sorry for *him* of all people. That's what grosses me out the most about the storyline: that disturbing scene in Seeing Red turned out to be basically a give them a narrative excuse to give Spike his soul. The writer's didn't really care for what that scene meant for Buffy, because Buffy's suffering was actually just a narrative means to an end.
This is going to be a bit long, but bare with me here as I try to explain where other people who forgave Spike and still shipped him with Buffy (like myself) come from ... I am in no way denying you your feelings here, nor am I making excuses But there seems to be A TON of factors that you are over looking here The most important one is that this is a fictional supernatural world, the rules of our world and our reality doesn't literally apply here In reality if the most handsome guy approached you and said he killed thousands of people before he met you, you would never love him or think he is attractive..you will scream and run the other way If a normal guy hits a normal girl he is definately a jerk who should be in jail, but no one says Spike (or Angel) are jerks for hitting girls (Buffy/Faith) Although stregnth level is supernatural for both parties here So yes, murder and assault in supernatural worlds are not treated the same as our world Second, Buffy is not just a victim in the overall bigger picture. Not talking about the bathroom scene here because in this particular moment in the bathroom, YES she was the victim .. but in the course of their relationship and everything that led up to this point she was also at fault, she says how many times that she would never want or touch him and end up not just responding but initiating things with him again (ep. Gone) .. she literally abused him for months . She knew he loved her and she used him physically and emotionally to get through her depression, and she admits that herself and feels guilty for it. And Buffy is a good person WITH a soul Third, people tend to like living in denial, Spike is over a centry old evil creature with no morals who feels no remorse whatsover for EATING people, you think he never did that? Assaulted a girl? and Angel, and Dru and all the characters we call our favourites?!! It may have happened off camera and there is a specific moment I would refer to regarding another vamp but it's in Angel tv and I'm not sure which season so I won't in case it's a spoiler (I pretty sure it isn't but still) but of course they all did Angelus ate babies before, he ENJOYS torturing his victims before killing them, you think he NEVER did that?? We didn't see it, but we know it by default Lastley and most importantly, In that bathroom scene Buffy finally stood up for herself and kicked Spike out .. He pushed before and she let him because she wanted to, he pushed too far this time and she FINALLY stopped him and put him in his place Every person's reaction to a situation like this could be different based on their personality and their ability to handle violence ..etc But Buffy is a worrier, and this (while painful of course) was a moment of victory for her .. also Buffy saw her fair share of violence and literally dies twice .. her adaption would not be the same as a normal girl being assaulted I feel like the way they delt with this on her side was very realistic to HER situation, she was more disappointed and upset that she let things get this far with him.. she also was proven correct that she can't trust him enough to love him if has no soul So yes, in this specific situation Spike's side of the story was the more interesting storyline from a writer/dramatic prespective .. loathing himself, having this existential crises and not knowing whether he is evil or not anymore, cause if he wasn't then how could he do this? And if he was why didn't he finish the dirty work? "What have I done? Why didn't I do it?" Were his first words after Season 6 was all about everyone becoming their wrost, and then everyone finding a way back to themselves And if we look at how low our HEROS got .. we Buffy becoming violent and abusive Willow manipulating Tara and controlling her mind Xander leaving Anya at the alter And Spike being the soulles creature with evil nature of course had to go even lower And we got to forgive everyone for their f*ckups and feel sorry for them.. we all cried with Buffy when she was telling Tara about how she is using Spike to feel, she was the abusive one here but we all felt her conflict and pain... Also, since what Spike did is addressed as it is and not sugar coated and he gets to pay for what he did, then I say the story is actually pretty well written
I suspect that "spilling useless buckets of salt... over your ending" is a reference to Spike crying over Buffy's death, not just in the immediate aftermath but the months afterward. Tears that ultimately didn't help to bring Buffy back, perhaps adding to his feelings of unworthiness?🤷♂️
Hope you are holding up okay, Sophie. Enjoyed your reaction as always. 💕
This is one of my favourite episodes because of the ending scene. Your reaction enhanced it for me even more. YAY!
I really like your reactions, but I kinda wish you had just let the last scene play out as one part rather than pause and stop so much. Again that's just my personal preference. But I sometimes feel that you lose a lot of the momentum of scenes by pausing so much. Although I do like that you pause rather than talk over bits and miss things.
SoFie, This episode is one of the ones I had been eager to see your reaction... specifically for the "can we rest now" scene. Loved your reaction. IMO spilling buckets of salt was all the tears 😭 he's shed for what he did and as even the dream of killing her made him breakdown. I watch this scene every so often because it is one of my favorites in the whole Buffyverse 😊👍.
Interesting take on connecting it to his dreams. I always saw the dream line as a one-off to show the war going on inside him, but your take makes sense. I take the buckets as his tears over her death (her ending) in S5. That she made him "weak", i.e., he loved her even when he was a demon.
The "holding myself, spilling useless buckets of salt over your... ending" line has a double entendre - grief, and sex. How fitting for Spike's character, right ❤️🔥
Yes, very cool line - talking about her S5 death and his tears over it, but also very much a sexual metaphor, given their shared history there.
I have and had such mixed feelings about Spike; for a long time I never wanted to see him again after 6/19, and before that he had been one of my absolute favorites. And truth be told, I don't forgive Spike, at least from a real world perspective. I've seen guys do horrible things and then break out the tears and self recrimination; such a manipulation. It took a long, long time for me to separate how this would play out in our reality vs. the Buffyverse. But I was able to finally let that go and enjoy Spike for what he is in his reality, and I do truly love him. What a fantastic character, what a fantastic performance. James Marsters is incredible. But if anyone tries to pull this around me in real life, I'm kicking them right in the balls and giving them something to really cry about
Thanks for the insight about working to be able to split this kind of behavior in the Buffyverse vs. real life. A kick in the balls is certainly justified IRL.
My god, I love your reactions so much. I love the way you dissect things and play them back to make sure you understand them, the way you really pay attention and take everything in. You really get this show, and it's wonderful. I'm gonna miss these reactions. The rewatchability of this season is through the roof, and I can't wait to see you watch it unfold. For me, about half of this episode is kind of meh. I don't like Nancy (she just annoys me), and the worm stuff just doesn't land. But the rest of the episode is great. I love the opening scene with the girl, the parts with Dawn and Buffy, Principle Wood seems like a cool guy, the little bit with Willow and Giles is wonderful, and my god, that ending scene is just insanely good. Along with the ending scene of the last episode with all the big bads, that ending scene in the church is also one of my favorites in the series as well. I know not everyone will agree with me and that's fine. I totally get it. But for me, as hard as Seeing Red was to watch, that ending was the moment I forgave Spike. Like you, I had the same thought about Seeing Red. SA is triggering for me, so I wondered how on earth a character can come back from that. That moment was when I let it go. It wasn't enough for everyone. But it was enough for me. People often ask why there are still Spuffy shippers after that. This is why. How does anyone come back from that? This is how.
As a guy who only just watched the show for the first time a couple years ago, I had SA as one of the things on the short list of acts that are irredeemable. It makes me very conflicted on Spike this season. But watching how Sofie and other female reactors feel about whether Spike can be redeemed has given me a new perspective.
Don't forget Xander's description of Spike in "Intervention." There's a non-zero chance the thought has cross his mind at least once. Based on the look they shared, the same might be said for Spike.
The beginning scene with the redheaded German girl being chased is an homage to the 1998 German Experimental film Run Lola Run! I think when Spike mentions "him" and "it, the other, the thing beneath you..." I believe he is talking about God and evil - the other, the adversary.
I think "him" is William, since his soul is now part of his internal conflict. I guess that's debatable. I think "the thing beneath you" is almost certainly the demon part of him. It is a call back to Fool for Love when Buffy told him he was beneath her (as a soulless vampire).
This last monologue, my god! And of course, Marsters is soo great at delivering it! Chills all the way, and tears too.
And yes, that ending scene is one of the best scenes in the show. Still gives me chills.
Welcome back ❤ Spike was telling Buffy that the ghosts were the reason for his insanity because he didn't want to tell her that he has a soul now so he had to come up with something
James' delivery in that last scene is great. There's something about unbalance Spike that is very compelling to watch; and James does it so well. It always seems odd that there's still (or arguably ever) was any debate whether Spike's original intention was to earn back his soul. Like Sofie and others have observed and just generally know, his chip is already ineffective against Buffy; so he never needed to get that out to prove something to her or hurt her. I do feel like his line about Angel, how he should have warned him, is very telling about how Spike looked at getting his soul back. He was arguably arrogant enough to think he could win back his soul and it not affect him; especially with how evidently saw Angel managing it. He didn't see the intervening years of his soul weighing on Angel; and as far as it making him soft or what have you, no doubt Spike would chalk that up more to a character flaw of Angel's; that he's just a simpering fool, and that nothing like that would happen to him. And I think that stands to reason as to Spike's motives for getting his soul. Buffy tells him she could never love him and that he's just a monster without a soul; and he wanted to prove that he was exactly the sort of man she should love. So what better way to prove his point that to get a soul and then rub it in her face when he's exactly the same person he was before? At least as Spike would see it, before actually getting it back.
I would also say, this would be the same reason he doesn't want Buffy or anyone to know he has a soul. He wants to prove he's still the same Spike and that the soul doesn't make any difference; but as the ultimate conclusion of the episode demonstrates, he was trying to prove that as much to himself as to Buffy, et al.
The audio is really really low on this one for some reason. Wondering if it's just me
No, the show audio was definitely a little too low on this one compared to Sofie's comments....
I have very conflicted feelings about Spike after Seeing Red, but the end scene here is undeniably amazing.