Bonus: Opiate Whack-a-Mole feat. Zachary Siegel

This was a good one.

Bro, this guy has opioid voice so bad. It's completely triggering.

The thing he says about the best treatment for opiate addiction being to just prescribe opiates is so true. Suboxone has saved my life.

This really hits home, a junkie friend of mine would occasionally hit me up if he was in a jam, like when he had to ditch his dope and run from the cops and needed a ride back to orange county from LA. He knew I was at UCLA at the time, occasionally i'd smoke a hit or two, not my proudest moment, but I never had any issues with it thankfully. He'd occasionally hit me up to see if I knew where he could get dope, which was weird, because If I wanted to, he'd be the only person I would even know to ask about it. But last time I heard from him he was asking, not for heroin, but that 'dark feti black' as he called it. I haven't heard from the dude since. A completely different friend called me a week ago and recanted a harrowing tale of passing out on his skateboard and waking up in the hospital, where they told him he required four separate adminsitrations of narcan to keep him from dying. He claims that was what he needed to get sober, and I hope that's true, but I'm still prepared for the worst.

And seriously, I agree about the jerks harping on how someone talks. How about appreciating that someone has put this much thought and work into a woefully misunderstood topic? Gah. I hope the guests never read these comments.

One of my favorite episodes. I will be sharing this around for sure. Have him back on!

Pharmacies even lobbied against regulation, just to keep revenue flowing through

Thanks for this. It was nice to have a serious and educational episode like this.

This fucking guy sounds like he’s a fuckin dope fiend, nodding out on the mic, most monotone soy boy voice ever, say it with ya chest! Talk faster fuck!

Tried going into a clinic one time to get methadone to stop doing fent and it was literally the most degrading process I had every been through, and the act of going up to a person behind a set of bars for something I should just be able to get off a shelf and get some real mental health care versus some patronizing group talk that is required by the place made me stop going. I don’t use anymore but it wasn’t because of the methadone clinic that’s for sure.

Thanks for the episode

Would love a link to the article or journal where they analyzed the street heroin

I got a genuine question for those with experience, how does weed compare to an opiate? Like why can't you use weed to come off of a heroin addiction, are they just different vibes altogether?

Consider putting this on the free feed

Thank you for this episode i thought I knew a lot but it’s even more fucked up ! Thanks fr tho

When did lil wytes song come out? 2003.

Why does every guest on Chapo come off sounding like a goofball, goddamn idiot? This guy sounds like he just rolled out of bed and has never seen a microphone in his life. And why? Does every? Sentence? Sound like he’s asking? A question?

This was interesting (and also kind of a funny coincidence as a "Zachary S" myself). I'm very familiar with this topic since I'm unfortunately on suboxone maintenance myself (dealt with addiction since the age of ~24 and been on suboxone for over 5 years now - I'm 36). The one part that seemed a little misleading (though correct in broad strokes) was the discussion of precipitated withdrawal (withdrawal caused by taking suboxone while on another opioid). Dependence on almost any opioid will lead to precipitated withdrawal if it's still active when you take suboxone; that's not really something unique to fentanyl. This is because suboxone has higher affinity to the mu opioid receptors, causing it to "knock off" whatever opioid you previously had in your system, leading to sudden and intense withdrawals. It's the biggest problem when an opioid has a long half-life. From what I've heard from others, the absolute worst drug for precipitated withdrawals is methadone (due to a combination of how long it lasts and how powerful it is - lots of horror stories of people trying to switch from methadone to suboxone and experiencing *weeks* of precipitated withdrawal, which is just inconceivably bad - even just 12 hours - which is fortunately more normal, since precipitated withdrawal usually doesn't last long - is hell). That aside, I feel very lucky that I was never involved with fentanyl (or "street drugs" in general - I always used opioids off the internet, starting with poppy pod tea). The idea of unpredictably having hyper-powerful opioids mixed in (and generally not being able to reliably control your dose) is absolutely terrifying.

damn the Chapo/Narcocast collab... would never have imagined this, it's like my dream podcast

thank you for doing this interview Felix and bringing more attention to the truth here

loved this episode but there were a few moments where the nomenclature was mixed up a little bit and I think it’s important to clarify, especially since the muddling of the chemistry and science of this issue really contributes to a lot of the negative views people have on drugs and addiction. “Opioids” is the core category of ‘morphine-like’ substances such as Morphine, Heroin, Oxycodone, and Fentanyl. “Opiates” refers only to chemicals that are found in the poppy plant itself (morphine & codeine). Another important category is “Semisynthetic Opioids” which consists of drugs synthesized only from Opiates, such as Hydrocodone, Heroin, and Oxycodone. So referring to street drugs as “not having opioids in them anymore” would not be correct, unless that drug were contaminated only with drugs of another core category such as Benzodiazepines (ex: xanax). Yes, fentanyl is fully synthetic as opposed to semi-synthetic heroin, but heroin is still synthetic nonetheless.

Thank you Felix! And Mr. Siegel

More Felix interviews please

Thanks for doing this one Felix

Link to Terrance Ray’s article on The Baffler about the opioid crisis in Kentucky they referenced here in the episode. It’s really excellent and I highly recommend. https://thebaffler.com/salvos/united-in-rage-ray

The analogy between the responses to the opioid crisis and covid is spot fucking on.

Your guest indirectly answered a question we all should be asking: why is this drug addictive NOW, even though the basic format of opiates has always been around? Why didn't American communities of a century ago get torn apart by opium back when Edgar Allen Poe was hooked on it? Why didn't we see epidemics of addiction to codeine, speed, and cocaine back when they first came out, when they were legal and prevalent? All the latest drugs are new takes on the old thing. What's changed is how miserable we all are. What's REALLY new is the emptiness with life. There is nothing else. There's no pride in being alive. There's no community that cares about each other. There's no sense of purpose that makes you say "NO, that stuff is just going to get in the way. I prefer being proud of myself than being numb." Who is proud of what they do now, with their shit jobs? I'm not saying that addiction isn't a "disease" that has always been around and which is treatable by doctors--but I agree with your guest's view that we should look at the DEMAND side of this.

What's the outro

Glad Felix finally got to talk about Dark Souls lore

Heroin doesn’t kill you; it’s the lifestyle.

They removed their controlled flow of LSD and turned up the opiate tap at the end of the 90s early 00s. The 90s saw first-time LSD use match or eclipse the same rate during the 60s (depending on the study) and then the rug gets pulled, they turn the screws on us and feed us pain killers. They being the FDA, FBI etc.

Dude kind of sounds like he’s on opiates..

Finally got diives on the pod?

Excellent episode guys, thank you

And Felix and Zach, this has been one of the most compassionate discussions of opiate addiction I’ve ever heard. Seriously, thank you. As some one who has struggled, being treated like a valid, valued human is huge.

Before the Harrison Act in 1915(and really it’s enforcement in the 20s and 30s), there were doctors who would just maintain people who were dependent on maintenance doses. As some one on maintenance treatment, let’s just say the two options (subs and methadone) leave a lot to be desired. If I was in Canada or parts of Europe I’d ask for a different options. Morphine maintenance would honestly be preferable IMO, if you want to wean you don’t have a protracted hell of extra long withdrawal. Not even gonna touch the addiction part other than boosting what they said. People in pain seek relief.

Thank you guys for this

Fentanyl is awesome

The Jan. 30 episode of Arsenal for Democracy treats the early history of opiate industry & policy in the US.

I think it's also so important to point out just how innocuous naloxone truly is. Other than a tiny percentage of people with a true allergy (like every single other substance on earth) there is virtually no risk to narcan. You essentially can't OD on it. It doesn't have scary side effects. It simply blocks opiate receptors. Full stop. Treating it like a controlled substance is entirely irrational. We can pick up narcan kits, without prescriptions, from pharmacies and outreach service providers in my province. Most bars stock a narcan kit. I have one hanging off my backpack and another clipped to my dog's leash just in case we see someone who needs it on our walk. And honestly, we still have work to do to make even more accessible. Even if you're a die-hard abstinence asshole, you should support low barrier narcan because you can't quit drugs when you're dead.

I deleted my first comment but the truth is kratom is better than both methadone and suboxone by quite a bit. At least for getting off heroin maybe it’s less effective for fentanyl

Nice pod to listen to after a fentanyl shot, 5/5 would recommend

Felix could never handle meth. Bitch

August of 2010 was such a crazy fucking month!!

Meth has replaced pain pills. Which makes for waaaay more violent and unpredictable behavior. More thefts. Crazy wackos. Worse health, people’s teeth falling out. It’s very heavy.

I was a functional hydrocodone/Oxy addict. I even got my series 7 & 66 investment licenses and worked as a RIA for UBS and then Wachovia. Now, that only lasted for about 2 years, I had to get on methadone. So I would take my dose in the morning and be good for the rest of the day. I got clean. Cold turkeyed off of methadone. Took two months. Total hell. A minute was like an hour. An hour was a day…etc

One other thing, when we were all using oxys, people would often have little splotches of green on their t shirts from licking the coating off and then wiping them down. I could write a book on this type of minutiae… don’t do opioids young people!

Please use pics of actual Oxys or Hydrocodones…as a former opiate addict it just seems lazy. Green 80s folks. I got put on mass hydrocodone by my university (state school) student health center in October of 2000, so the 2001 date is very accurate. Also, thought Jared Kushner fixed this crisis. Love to anyone struggling with this motherfcking monkey….

Excited to listen. People here buy fake pills now just knowing it's fent. Gotta smoke it or you'll die.

In