BONUS: Y2K feat. Colette Shade
Author Colette Shade joins us to discuss her new book “Y2K” on the millennial era of ~1997-2008. Will and Colette review how the boundless optimism of ‘the end of history’ curdled into the permanent pessimism of the 21st century, how computer doomed everything even if the specific prediction of the “Y2K bug” maybe didn’t literally come to pass, how nostalgia can be both useful and a trap, and of course, how everything is 9/11.
Purchase “Y2K: How the 2000s Became Everything”:
Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/Y2K-Audiobook/B0D3G5JV6P
Catch Colette on here book tour, dates here: https://www.coletteshade.com/
Comments (146)
Good ep and for whatever it’s worth, I think the “rock is dead” claim was just in regard to mass culture. That rock no longer has a hold over people like it once did (or in the way rap did in this y2k era) and that there are obviously tons of cool underground bands around can both be true
If you’re australian and you want a jumpscare listen to how americans say “bondi beach”
I'm American and even I was taken aback 😅 The classic, read a word and have never heard it IRL. That's actually an indicator of being well educated so no shade.
You think Theseus12 was bad, I was Pentheus5
Great interview! Definitely want to read it.
I don’t like this broads voice
You probably don't like being gay also, but some things you just can't change.
unc’s detected
Whole family gathered around the monitor, watching the dial-up graphics like it was Christ on the Mount and the Sermon was about to start. Simpler times, more complicated brains.
theseus12 mentioned
I love the pop culture analysis. But I feel like discussion really jumped the shark in this episode, not getting anything in about the content of all watched over by machines of love and grace (BBC documentary). Its impossible to discuss this without discussing Greenspan and Clinton's contribution to this cultural movement or the "all boom never bust" mindset
This would probably be fair analysis but for the likely hundreds of hours elsewhere that chapo critiques the Clinton’s impact politically and culturally. Taking a shit on the neoliberal turn that this era solidified forever is their bread and butter. Your version of this episode would have been redundant; if would largely just be stating their overall thesis…. This author wrote a collection of essays about her goopy Apple, AIM, my stealing the cover of my sisters’ Britney Spears cd and hiding it between sheet/mattress, hip hop replacing rock (what’s the most lasting radio rock band of the millennial era, foo fighters or something? Could anything be more mid?… too generous, just bad) and Luda “back seat windows up that’s the way” ……maybe you’re new to the show? Because I’d say the analysis you’re looking for out of this episode is already firmly implied
I was 20 in '97. That was really the year that felt like rock musics time had passed. Post- Cobain and Oasis were the last hurrah (here on this side of the Atlantic anyway) but by '97 they'd ran out of Beatles songs to rip off and brought out a coke bloated 3rd album. We were coming close to the 21st century so it felt like music had to be looking forward to the future. It's was platinium plated rap music and electronic music that seemed much more relevant for the time
This has been a very fun “remember some bars” episode
this mtv news examines the 80's special from 1989 is an important time capsule. https://youtu.be/tIVExtODswQ?si=jVk0dp7SGgShuzbz
10 crack commandments is a neoliberal anthem
Dr Peterson is that you? ⬇️
Her fun nostalgia is gilded with rabid 3rd wave feminism. I almost stopped listening to the interview because it got bogged down on how "sexy" everything was. Almost to the point of bitterness.
dude who gets no ass has opinions ^
I did know a guy who was sexually into whipped cream and honey. His grandparents were siblings.
Probably already mentioned but the Britney interview has to be from Chuck Klosterman IV
Have you ever had Simon Reynolds on the show? Retromania seems more and more pertinent. Ironically though, his new book Futuromania argues the opposite.
Will getting horny on main
This eps' definitely the dessert to my veggies in terms of Chapo pod consumption. Not that I'm complaining. Gobble gobble.
That was excellent, I really enjoyed this one. I might just be haunted by the spectre of rock and roll but I also just wanna let everyone know that actually its not dead.
Punk rock was a constant through this period, just not as a mainstream commercial "industry"
My AIM was redheadgirl911 pre 9/11 😬
does anyone have her venmo? I'd like to donate a pop filter
I’m starting to have reading series withdrawals
ThesiusNutz69
I was Ebola12 on AOL
You're the man now dog.
Everything is Chrome in the Future
You’ve had nearly a decade to get a podcasting mic, Colette 😂 Enjoying the commentary/discussion though!
Re: Will's nostalgia take, a good book on that is Retromania by Simon Reynolds
Entertaining conversation and great analysis of that time.
Greetings from A fellow millennial from NOVA! We got the best of all of it!
I’m gonna change my username to Theseus12!
Will getting ready to interrupt a woman mid-sentence: *insert lebron all of the lights clip*
Regarding country music popularity, I think it exploded primarily because it gives people an excuse to tailgate outside of the college and pro football season.
going to skateparks these days and every kid has jncos, bleached tips, slipknot shirts and even tribal tatoos. It's absolutely mind blowing
It’s called “Aim”. No one calls it A.I.M.
No one called it Aim ever
Haha "Mo Money Mo Problems" is Biggie, the first verse is Ma$e though. The song is just Diana Ross - "I'm Coming Out" with raps on it. Seems like Will is just trolling not knowing the songs. He did it with Wu-Tang too.
The part about country music being more attainable is spot on analysis. I have several friends who grew up in suburbs who were bigger on country than rap and explained it in the same way of be more relatable. It probably varies by personality whether you like that or like the grandeur associated with rap
As someone born in 1997 - technically a zoomer but came up in the wake of the millennial world - this interview did a lot for me. Gave me so much context for a cultural landscape that I don’t fit neatly into and have felt very adrift in.
Nice, my old ass was born in 1968 & this was very interesting to me.
My joke re: culture hasnt changed in 20 years is that 20-somethings in the 2050’s will be throwing 2020’s-themed parties where everyone dresses up like the era when everyone dressed up like it was the 90’s
Simon Reynolds, "Retromania"
This is good pairing with the last episode of Hell of Presidents
That was great, but I did die a little when Will did the KK quote
Great episode for us geriatric millennials. I heard Danny Besner in my head saying "that's correct" when Collette talked about the death of Kurt Cobain leaving a void.
Gen X here. That did hit hard.
As a European i didnt know Bring It On and went to the wiki page of the movie and this escalation of its sequels is really reflective of the analysis of our times, especially the change after 08 and the title of the most recent sequel: It was the first of the Bring It On film series and was followed by six direct-to-video sequels, none of which contains any of the original cast members: Bring It On Again (2004), which shared producers with the original, Bring It On: All or Nothing (2006), Bring It On: In It to Win It (2007), Bring It On: Fight to the Finish (2009), Bring It On: Worldwide Cheersmack (2017), and the TV film, Bring It On: Cheer or Die (2022).
The unrelated direct to DVD sequel is a cherished American artform. Check out how many sequels there are to Jarhead.
Ya'll doing a Landman episode?
I loved this interview! Idk what the hell you're talking about tho, I'm 12. Groovy!
Nostalgia is the real mind virus. 🦠
Feminism in this era was in full force throughout pop culture from the spice girls’ girl power to tlc’s no scrubs.
I’ve commented way too much already but a couple other things. How was the boy band era of the late 90s not mentioned? And as for a music signifier of us leaving the Bush era post-2008 financial collapse will to me always be Kid Cudi’s “Day n Nite” which ushered in the skinny jean, downtrodden, and more drug-centric tropes
So true, it has a similar feel to SoundCloud era rap
Maybe this is outsized in my New Englander brain, but I also feel like the Patriots coming to prominence by winning their first Super Bowl in Feb 2002 was also part of ushering in the 2000s era. I distinctly remember them being seen as America’s Team post 9/11, and rewatching that halftime show with U2 where they dedicated the show to the 9/11 victims is embedded deep within my brain. I feel like this was part of that era where we were still “catching up” to the war on terror as the anti-Iraq rhetoric had yet to really pick up steam and it was more about rallying the country
Bill Belicheck in his short sleeve hoodie nods in agreement
You’ll never convince me that Will isn’t talking to an AI here
*Jlo voice* I’m real
i caught an episode of remember shuffle with colette on it just a few days ago. it's a nice podcast.
Love to listen to white women recite rap lyrics
I like to listen to gangsta rap on my way to the farmer's market
I'm so glad that they started talking about the death of rock music. I always had a feeling that the one two punch of Metallica releasing the flop that was St. Anger and also their very public whining about music sharing and pirating laid bare how rock was so very out of touch with the youth of that time and removed from anything rebellious or anit establishment.
By the time St. Anger was released it was five years after Napster and we were all accustomed to bad Metallica. The real shock was (as Metal Hammer magazine put it) Metallica "dropping a Load on the fans" with their 1996 post-haircut albums. Too soft, too bluesy, too many weird lyrics about feelings. That was the beginning of the end.
One blind spot in the episode (and I imagine in the book) is the absence of the pop cultural impact of late 90's pro wrestling: the WWF 'Attitude Era' and WCW's 'nWo Era'. Between 1997 and 2001 the most innovative entertainment medium wasn't movies or music or publishing but instead two competing male soap operas with simultaneous live TV broadcasts every Monday night essentially doing nonstop sweeps week stunts to try and keep their audience from changing the channel to watch the other. The most tasteless and shocking gimmicks alongside an almost Andy Kaufman-esque audience participation element that predicted the hyper-brand fan identity you see all over the internet today. Gotta get some dirtbags to consult on your Y2K nostalgia book.
Oh God I remember the attitude era. The height of Steve Austin smashing people with chairs and drinking beer like it was nothing.
Hearing Will sing Dirty made me giggle so hard. Thanks Will. 🤣
Listen to two spergos talk over each other for one hour and six minutes
Are you new to podcasts or
Lots of love. Fantastic interview, Will you're really adept in dialogue (also where tf is Felix?! this is Felix territory!). Yes, there is a way through, It's up to us to imagine it. There are really clever guides to novel sociopolitical formations in fiction, that i think can synthesized into something useful. Look at Ada Palmer's Too Like The Lightning series or U. K. Le Guin's"Dispossed." Compiling and making such dreams digestible to people is a long time ... what i wish my life were about, but keeps getting interrupted by work and real life and fact that i'm stupid as shit.
as a tr_nny in nashville with a Toby Kieth tattoo i cant believe they said my favorite jingoistic cynical war profiteering patriot country star sucks. wth? lol “beer for my horses” is like a jan 6th, vigilante classic and i cant believe willie nelson hasnt been cancelled because of it
You can’t cancel the pure of heart
God damn it Chapo. My reading list was already five long
I should prolly listen to the ep first.... but, I'm 30 years too old for it and still going to shitty diy punk shows cuz those kids fucking rip.
you're like finn mckenty but not a soulless piece of shit
Steal My Sunshine was the last fun song.
Song of the summer since 1999. Len is probably like 29% of Canada's GDP (complementary: it's not like Our Lady Peace could keep a dental clinic running)
This one’s for the gays and the girlies
Break out the MAGA hats
I'm about to buy the hell out of this book.
You guys are just a few years younger than me but you see. It was even worse If yiu were a bit older.
I’m so fucking sad about the end of rock. I’m sorry, A Complete Unknown sent me into a spiral about how nobody gets paid to write songs like that anymore.
underground rock, metal, and punk are very much alive and thriving if you know where to look.
One interesting thing -- and maybe this is just me -- but as an Xer on the cusp, I can remember this longing for a return to 60's counter-culture that existed in the mid-90's. along with the sense that politics had gotten "boring." I felt (and heard other people articulate this too) that the generations before me had had clear enemies, whereas our enemies were all hidden out of sight and it was harder to discern what you should be be against. That definitely changed with 9/11 and the Bush years, and it was that psychic trauma that made me vulnerable to Obama/hope & change. But in retrospect, and this interview highlights that, 9/11 didn't change anything. It was just the moment when the things that were obfuscated became visible. I got what I wanted and it sucks.
Very true. By the time 9/11 happened, there was a whole pop culture based on longing for (my God) World War II. It started with Holocaust education slowly morphing from a cautionary tale about what racism can do into a reason why everything the US did was Right and Justified and anyone suggesting otherwise was Chamberlain (the culture sliding from a fascination with Schindler’s List to a fascination with Saving Private Ryan). By the time those planes crashed into WTC, it was a whole thing to want this to be a new Pearl Harbor. Such bullshit.
I remember this time, and I remember missing the grunge movement that came before it. I rejected the shallowness of this time and instead hung out with the gen xers and went to raves.
I am a Gen Xer & huge jungle/drum & bass fan in the 90s
Gotta also reference the album cover of Backstreet Boys’ “Millenium” album to capture that late 90s style
You want it that way?
It’s Xena Warrior Princess. Not Xena Princess Warrior
I (heart) y2k. I have a snow globe for y2k and the snow is all 1 and 0s and I am not kidding.
Great interview, but it's really reinforcing the gen-x/millennial divide for me. It explains how close and how far away I feel from Will & Co culturally sometimes.
Yes
The “Y2K bug” was a real problem that required a huge effort and billions of dollars to fix. It became a punchline because that collective effort succeeded. Truly a living monument to an era of dumb yet enduring takes.
we as a society fixed ONE problem and they never forgave us for it. they're never going to allow us to fix anything ever again
This episode is making me feel like my brain is releasing the DMT 💀
Also I have 3 minutes left in the episode… waiting for Felix to pop in with a question…
when she mentioned "The Israel Gene" I could physically hear Felix not being there to comment
Fun episode as soon as it started I couldn’t wait to hear about wills AIM life. Maybe not the right place for this insight but I’ve always thought an under reported on phenomenon is how the vast speed of tech growth in the oughts created micro generations amongst millennials… as someone born in 89 this stuff is all super relevant for me, but my sister born 4 years later had an entirely different youth culture experience as did my sister born 4 years after that. Neither ever knew what it was like to sit around in a Taco Bell parking lot waiting for the crew to assemble and figure out who was “having people over”… last thing, I reported on my 66 year old fathers turn to chapo through the gateway drug of hell of prez about six months ago. On Xmas eve I was excited to tell him about the return of …. He cut me off and told ME, how happy it made him that matt was back… tears to my eyes folks we love to see it
The IRC/AIM/MSN divide 😂 (I was an AIM kid, my sn was foolycooly24)
Wow... This shows me that my white peers were and are so sheltered.
Any examples? Not saying you’re wrong btw
Key thing to remember about the Y2K hysteria is that a few people did take it seriously: the computer programers who were responsible for identifying and fixing all the bugs in various systems that actually would have caused problems had they not been fixed. Because they did their jobs, it looks like there was no reason to be worried in the first place. This matters because right-wingers use Y2K as an example of “fake” panics when they argue against addressing current problems, like climate change.
i was a baby working in tech so yeah it was very clearly real
Two of my besties had the best AIM handles back in the day - "tanstud" and "womanlesbo".
Ugh … Kurt Cobain was not the voice of GenX, which had no voice, and his death had no immediate impact on rock. Silverchair, which was pretty much a clone of Nirvana, had a big year in 1994. It took until 1996 for the alternative music bubble to burst. Rap was already on the rise before grunge. People talk about how grunge displaced hair metal, but that was already on the wane; grunge displaced the MC Hammer-era of rap among white teenagers. Grunge was already a last hurrah. We just didn't realize it as it was happening.
+1
Theseus12! That’s so good 🤣
Collette Shade would be a great drag name
Collette A'clit
I think what y'all are referencing at the end is postmodernism we have copies of copies of copies until the original is no longer in sight. It felt like the '90s and the early 2000s were the last era of original everything now just feels like slop. I can't tell you the last time I went somewhere looked at something or seeing something and thought wow what an original all inspiring thing place etc that wasn't the side of a mountain or nature. All we do is follow the same profit model over and over and over again and even now indie music isn't even independent it's hypercurated music it's just pop labeled independent and bands that are signed on a major labels
Ever increasing circles
The Obama era brought a second optimistic End of History imo: apps and self-driving cars were going to save us, stocks go up. Government couldn’t accomplish anything good, but it didn’t matter bc Elon (and watching documentaries on Netflix) would solve global warming anyway
It pains me how much I've only come to recognize this in retrospect.
Loved her on Remember Shuffle! Can’t wait to read the book.
I was 13-24 in the time period this book covers, she really nailed it.
Def will be checking out this book! 🫡
I gotta say, Colette Shade is a hot dominatrix name. I'd "sub" to her if you get what I mean.
You can do this by purchasing her book with money.
Also the design on Colette’s website is 🧑🍳💋
😎 bonus
Oft. It hurt my Aussie heart to hear Bondi pronounced like that. Like you yanks fuck up a gotta our pronunciations but Bondi is so world famous you guys normally get that one right. For those wondering its pronounced "bond-eye"
🤝 me every time they say dianne fineSTEEN - i mean fuck her but it still grates. love from Cali where we know how to say Bondi!!
How do they do it
Only 90s kids will understand 😤🤯🤯🖥️🌐🛹🇮🇶🇸🇦✈️✨👽 post Soviet neoliberal induced mirage utopia
It was a wild time
Aw thanks guys. I was hurting bad during your break. I needed some chapo methadone so I was listening to old eps but now in a week you've dropped off like 2 grams. I mean I'm junkie, it's never enough, but spacing it out and not over-indulging I've managed to stay in the sky for the week. Thanks for that Speed-Boat Dope Dry Boys.
Some of us are chronic listeners of old movie review episodes, you’re never alone.
Cue story of my life by social distortion https://youtu.be/oh8zcbC_Dcw?si=5RQI7gagJYUmSgf0
I just realized that in like 11 months it will be 10 years since 2016 and for some reason it gives me existential despair
Jesus fuck you ain't wrong. And thats a fair response to it.
Just hook it to my veins!
American prestige, remember shuffle and now chapo...quite the book tour already lol
remember shuffle is so good lol
President Bohrok Obionicle
Bonus episode!? We gooning tonight boys !
God I just farted up all the cum in my ass out of excitement for the extra slop, thanks boys
Also, I’m gay
"It's OK, we still love you"- Mom + Dad
The new y2k movie rocks btw