Where Has All the Skating Gone? with Carolyn Kendrick AND Jamie Loftus!

i'll give you my peacock login so you can eatch skating

Any fans of figure skating should look into its lesser known cousin, artistic (formerly synchronized) swimming! We still have a figures portion (though only for younger swimmers) that is also incredibly un-exciting. Swimmers line up in black swimsuits and are given a number, then perform one short sequence very slowly, and everyone must remain quiet. We also recently updated our scoring to better quantify difficulty in routines, but it has stripped away a lot of the artistry. And gender is a current hot topic, with male athletes only recently allowed at national and international competitions, and little to no acknowledgement of other genders. But it is a breath-taking and under-appreciated sport, I'd highly recommend watching some!

Hey skating enthusiasts (and Sarah in particular). You need this show. Trust me. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxJ1ennxKoy/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

A comment about the Debi Thomas episode: back in the 6-scoring days, the actual thing you were trying to get was a better ranking: 1st place, 2nd place, etc. The rankings were weighed according to the part of the competition (long program being weighed the most, followed by the short, then figures when they were still around), so it didn't really matter how many "points" you got. That said, looking it up, Debi was second with her short, probably because of being dinged for "art." Which still sucks. Also, judges could only give each amount (eg, a "5.9 for technical") once each round, so if you went early, you could really get screwed because judges would save their marks. I may have been slightly obsessed with skating back in the day.

Hey Sarah! Have any other Canadians told you about how Jamie Salé is now a massive anti-vax conspiracy theorist? It's truly a wild story.

This was soooo good. I was a massive figure skating fan from the age of 2/3 according to my mom. I use to figure skate across my living room constantly. I wanted to be an Olympic figure skater but I was black and working class so there was so no way we could afford even just for me to try it. And I was obsessed. I watched every competition on tv. Knew all the major skaters. Had posters on my wall but I also fell out of love with it once the scoring system changed. I miss the artistic aspects. My fav skater of all time is Sasha Cohen. I still watch figure skating routines from the past on YouTube all the time but I feel so much even with routines I’ve seen a million times. My goal is to take lesson as an adult one day just to see what it feels like to be on the ice and Fulfill a dream

Sarah I bet you would enjoy Yuri On Ice. It’s a dramatic gay sports anime about figure skating, which is already a dramatic gay sport so perfect fit.

Hi. I'm figure skating mom, and I listened to this show with my 15-year-old figure skater. She's very, very into watching the National and World competitions, to the point where she had the judges scores on her phone while we were watching the most recent World Championships. We do subscribe to Peacock, and have a few tips about watching figure skating.

I loved this episode. Fun story — Insat next to Sasha Cohen in one of my seminars in college for WEEKS without realizing who she was (we all called her Alexandra) and it was a SHOCK to me when I found out, because as a kid in 2002 I was the biggest fan of her dress in the Salt Lake City Olympics. She was funny and delightful, and very modest.

Some additional context on why it’s so hard to watch fs in the USA right now from a new rabid skating fan (I was so excited for this episode that I subscribed to the Patreon just to hear it!!!)— 1) is that basically due to a lawsuit I think last year from one of the copyright holders for a cover of song used in a program, NBC is being very careful with where they show figure skating, meaning after it airs live (which they’re not even doing for major events like the Grand Prix series, I’d say only half the season is even televised), the only way to watch it is a replay on Peacock that expires after a few days. 2)- This is just my personal taste, but the current US commentators, Johnny Wier and Tara Lipinski, are honestly a bit mean spirited to the skaters, and don’t come across as very knowledgeable about the current state of the sport. Some of this is that I think NBC isn’t giving them a good budget for research mainly? But they basically repeat the same talking points over and over all season, and their favoritism is so obvious. 3)- on the subject of that favoritism, usfs (the American federation) has been scrambling for years to try to keep up with the Russian apparatus. Meaning that they keep pushing to the forefront Very young girls who can do impressive jumps at the expense of their bodies and minds. For recent examples, see how they uplifted skaters like Gracie Gold, Alyssa Liu as teens, encouraging them to have short careers racking up high point values. Bear in mind, Gracie and Alyssa are two of my favorite skaters. But the federation didn’t care about giving them the ability to have long careers or a healthy relationship with the sport, they just cared about having a star. I see them doing the same thing now with Isabeau Levito and it breaks my heart. But Americans love someone with a long career we can follow! Think about how much we rallied around Nathan Chen. Or how excited we were to see last year’s national champion, Mariah Bell, be a 25 year old. I’d recommend watching the video essays on YouTube by user Fran: “What is Happening to Women’s Figure Skating” and “The Cycle of Exploitation in Women’s Figure Skating” for more context on the Russian federation’s current state of affairs, which is really affecting usfs as well. 3)- for these reasons, most diehard figure skating fans in the US that I know use a VPN to watch skating on the ISU YouTube channel, to actually be able to see all the events, to be able to watch them after the day they air, and to listen to (in my opinion), more pleasant and knowledgeable commentators. Genuinely I love all the ISU commentators. The pair they had commentating Worlds this year especially helped explain a lot of technical elements. But this is only something that diehard fans are doing— your casual fan isn’t going to know to set your VPN to think you’re in Belgium so you can be not geoblocked to watch a competition in the middle of the night our time because it’s taking place in Japan. 4)- but that said!!!! If anyone reading this wants help watching the figure skating season (which just ended this weekend, but that also means there’s lots of content to catch up on from the season before the fall!) I’d recommend using soyouwanttowatchfs.com for season schedules and advice on the best way to watch each event. 5)- also just to plug my current favorite skaters competing and some great programs this year!!! I mostly just watch women’s singles so that’s most of this list but: - REIGNING WORLD CHAMPION KAORI SAKAMOTO MY BELOVED. I love her so much i love her SO MUCH. Remember when she bronzed at the Olympics and saved Figure skating. REMEMBER? I’d recommend watching both her skates from worlds this year, they were marvelous. - REIGNING VICE WORLD CHAMPION AND FOUR CONTINENTS CHAMPION HAEIN LEE. I love her so much she makes me cry she is my daughter I’m adopting her. Watch her skates from 4 continents and worlds if you want to feel something. - From the US!!! So many amazing skaters, Isabeau and Bradie are both amazing. But my current favorites are Amber Glenn (as far as I know the only out queer woman currently competing!!!!!!! One day she will land her triple axel one day!!!). Her best skate was at US nationals but that’s so hard to watch because of NBC so I’d watch her programs from skate America. Also STARR ANDREWS!!!!!! Watch her events from Skate Canada if you want to feel so joyful. Also it’s so delightful to see a black woman thriving in figure skating. - Mai Mihara I love so much. Her short program this year is I think my favorite program ever. When she does that arm thing while she spins????? I die. Watch her at the Grand Prix final to WEEP. - Everyone should watch Ekatrina Kurakova every day. We stan Katya in this house. - Liza Tuktemysheva is amazing and has somehow survived the Russian skating machine to have a long and beautiful career. Her whole skating history is amazing but as a lesbian I specifically have to recommend her exhibition to Britney Spears’ “Toxic” - Loena Hendrickx’s current short program is so much fun I love it so much. - I don’t follow men’s but I have friends who do and based on that I have to recommend everyone who wants to see a roaring good time watch: JASON BROWN (!!!!!!!), Kazuki Tomono, Kevin Aymoz, Junhwan Cha, Keegan Messing, Dennis Vasiļjevs, Shoma Uno! - I don’t know what’s happening in ice dance or pairs but everyone should watch Miura / Kihara!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my god!!!! They saved pairs i know that much.

This episode made me so happy as someone who still follows skating and was OBSESSED with it as a kid. I was born in 85 and my friends and I were always pretending to be figure skaters on our roller skates (I was always Tonya or Kristi Yamaguchi, as in my mind, they were the best and my Type A perfectionism was strong even then). One of my all-time favorite sports moments is Sarah Hughes winning the gold in 2002; if I want a good cry, I watch that clip on YouTube.

This is very belated, but I need you, Sarah, to know that when I was a little baby skater at regionals, I skated to the Felicity: An American Girl Adventure soundtrack and then to a lyricless version of Who’s Got the Pain from Damn Yankees

Some of my favorite programs are from the women’s singles event at the 2014 Sochi Olympics. Yuna Kim’s (famously and glaringly robbed of her gold medal here) short program to Send in the Clowns, Mao Asada’s free program to Rach 2, and Carolina Kostner’s free program to Bolero. Some of the best programs EVER. Jason Brown’s Sinnerman short is the best men’s program I have ever seen. Period.

I haven’t been interested in skating for long, though I claimed to be a fan of Michelle Kwan’s in high school because we were required to choose a favourite athlete and I… could not care less about any sport, but figure skating was sufficient sparkly and Michelle’s was the only name I knew so I guess I stanned. But. Most of what I’ve learned in the past year or so is the Saga of the Russian Girls: from Yulia, to Zhenya… to [Redacted]. But Wakaba Higuchi’s Lion King program from last year slapped.

I loved this episode! I love everything Sarah and Co are able to give me, honestly. I was wondering if Sarah could possibly do a show on the Chamberlain-Kahn Act? I think I got that right. And the internment camps where they sent "promiscuous" women.

For the life of me, I cannot tell Carolyn and Jamie's voices apart!!

The child from New Jersey has definitely seen the Godfather. He knows the lines. It’s our cultural heritage.

I was very invested in Yuzuru Hanyu’s career, and none of my friends/coworkers understood that I had to take the time to watch his performances (and wins). Also thank you for linking the video where we can hear your screams. I foolishly tried searching for it on my own before checking.

Enjoyed this episode so much. Growing up, figure skating for me WAS the winter olympics. I couldn't really get too into the other winter events (the luge doesn't really resonate in the deep south). But the skating was so compelling, seems like everyone followed it. I had a Dorothy Hamill haircut at one point that I hated at the time. Of course, when I look back through childhood photos, it was the only cute hairdo I ever had by a wide margin.

As a previous member of Team USA figure skating and spent 15 years competing at an elite level in the synchronized skating i have so much to say!! I grew up skating with the greats (Jason Brown, Brady Tennell, Gracie Gold) and competed internationally for USFSA. I would love to talk to you more about synchro and share my fav programs!! Please go to synchro nationals next year!

My inexpert take on why it’s either gymnastics or skating and not both is that those are pretty much the only widely visible women’s sports (or have been in the past few decades) and we just don’t support more than one women’s sport at once

Five minutes in and you're already WRONG about a lot in this podcast. Makes me wonder how accurate your other podcasts (that I've thoroughly enjoyed) are!

Wow i love Kirk

Please have Jonathan Van Ness on to talk figure skating.

This was a wonderful episode! I’ve been following international figure skating since 2017 and even in that short time the energy for it has seemed to drastically shifted. At the Four Continents competition in February the crowd would have barely filled up one side of the arena when some of the top skaters in the world were competing in the states. There’s tone of room for growth within the ISU but my hope for any positive change continues to be abysmal… so I’ll just enjoy and cheer loudly for all the skaters while I wait and see.

My favorite figure skater is the OG - Peggy Fleming

I do not think there has been an episode of this podcast made more spesifically for me. Personally. I have so much to say and so many thoughts and help I may explode. (As a former skater who exited competition after a few years of collegiate shynchronized skating). Also, for more current programs, Nathan Chen’s Rocketman is amazing. Gracie Gold’s 2016 nationals firebird, iconic. Virtue and Moir’s 2018 Moulin Rouge? Tried to be censored but they did it ANYWAY! I have… so many more…

Fyi, xfl is back again, version 2.5. owned and operated by The Rock now

you mention at the top of the episode that figure skating entered the US as a fad ... why wouldn't it fade like one ? it can still be sad and inevitable in the same moment

Check out Caryn Kadavy’s routine to Its all Coming Back to Me Now! She was one of my favorite professional skaters from the 90’s and so beautiful and elegant.

https://youtu.be/pghOMBS3fts Sarah, do you know about synchronized figure skating? Ok done commenting I just have a lot to say about figure skating.

loved this episode! re: accessibility and racism in skating: there is a great rink here in the west philly (a couple blocks from my house!) called the Laura Sims Skatehouse that was founded specifically for Black and brown people in the neighborhood. it has a great history and mission that it continues to carry out to this day: https://laurasimsskatehouse.org

I have been mildly obsessed with figure skating (and its rollersport counterpart- artistic roller skating) ever since listening to the Tanya Harding episodes. I went to look up little Kirk’s hall of the mountain king routine, and I’m literally mouth agape and vicariously ecstatic for this kid within like 20 seconds. He is FEELING IT. I love this silly flamboyant beautiful sport/art. Thanks Sarah and Carolyn and Jamie, this was another banger. If you want another sport to feel righteously indignant for, check out high level roller skating. Artistic roller skating is a worldwide phenomenon that involves all the same moves and artistry as ice skating, but requires far less resources. But it’s been snubbed for the olympics year after year and so no one has heard of it. I’m also personally salty that roller derby isn’t in the olympics yet, but that will take longer. Fewer countries have teams.

There’s an episode of Bad Sport on Netflix about the scoring scandal that’s worth checking out!

I’m a figure skating instructor. I take tremendous pride in not passing to my students the trauma my instructors gave me around weight, training with injuries, sexist and homophobic beauty standards etc. But the classism that plagues figure skating coupled with the stuffy, elitist attitude of USFSA makes me cry. I want to share this art that has brought me so much with my community, but my sport is SO inaccessible to my community. And I have no systemic solution, but channeling my frustration into inclusive coaching practices makes me feel a little bit better.

Do you have anything like the show Dancing on Ice in the states? Where celebs are paired with professional skaters. Like strictly or dancing with the stars?

As someone who follows figure skating rigorously, this was interesting to listen to for the outsider perspective, though also a bit frustrating because there is so much nuance to everything you touch on. There are a lot of complex reasons figure skating has declined, especially in the US. I think a big problem with the scoring is that if you don't understand it, it seems arbitrary, political and inconsistent, and if you DO understand it and read all the rules and dissect the protocols, it still seems arbitrary, political and inconsistent 😅 IJS is theoretically more transparent, fairly robust, but now the problem is that fans can SEE everything, it's all in HD with slowmo replays, and it's very obvious when one skater is getting a +5 GOE and no call on their flutz, while another skater's flutz gets an edge call. The bias is more obvious. Having put in a lot of effort to understand and follow this sport, my personal opinion is that it's not worth it as a fan. This last Olympics was my breaking point in being able to derive more enjoyment than frustration out of a sport that is swathed in corruption and abuse. Watching junior competitions not knowing any of the politics or nuances and simply rooting for kids to do a good job is probably the way to go in terms of fan enjoyment.

I absolutely love “ you’re wrong about “, and Sarah, but omg this was soooo boring.

This episode was a real bummer! LOL. But seriously, it really makes me sad seeing people pour their time and love into something only for the thing they are most passionate about be just crushed by horrible institutions. No wonder I'm an anarchist.

This was wonderful. Figure Skating is my favorite sport and it was so great to hear your experience and love for it through this episode. If you haven't yet, you should check out the World Figure Skating Museum in Colorado Springs. I finally got a chance to go last summer and it was wonderful. My husband and I were the only people there, but it was really informative and it was cool to see some of the costumes up close, and learn more of the history of the sport.

And now I am going to sing "What would Brian Boitano do?" all day. :)

Thanks for this one. My perennial wish is that we could get rid of all the ads surrounding the rink. A solid, neutral, light background helps us see the skating better, never clashes with costumes. For decades we see this visual busy-ness, when there are so many better ways for sponsors to let us know, not annoy us (me), and not take away from the skating. Really, who do those ads work for? Other ad execs? And, yes, I am an old lady.

Loved this ep! My favorite program in the last couple of years has been Jason Brown's Sinnerman SP. It’s everything I love artistically about the sport and his interpretation of the music is *chef’s kiss*: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W44QDl16pK0xq

As a former competitive figure skater, current coach, and longtime lover of the sport, I can’t thank you enough for this episode! I will say, from a skaters’ perspective, the new judging system is a drastic improvement over the old one, and it makes my job way easier as a coach. It’s a cumulative points system that breaks down each element (jump, spin, footwork, choreographic sequence), how well it was done, and how every single judge voted. It’s presented as an averaged score, so I can see why it’s confusing live, but I can literally look at every judges’ exact calls with my skaters to show how we need to improve and where any bias is hidden. I’m not going to say it’s perfect—I think it really undervalues spins, for example—but it’s so much more transparent than it used to be. Also next time I see Kirk, I’ll let him know you love his skating. 😊

Wow. I knew skating was racist because Tumblr told me about the one black girl who did backflips (which were then banned) but I wasn't aware of the rest of it. It's really disappointing. I would watch skating more but it's really just not available. But also there are just... so many issues with skating and gymnastics and pushing girls younger and younger in dangerous ways that I am a little ambivalent about encouraging kids into these sports.

This was so great, but I lost my shit when Jamie name-dropped Asiaf Arena 😅

The perfect group of ladies for a fun, informative bonus episode! Also, Blue Danube and other famous waltzes is Strauss, not Liszt!!!

Oh, this sounds fun. There was a brief resurgence of figure skating love in the anime community a few years back when a female director (still sadly rare) did a show called Yuri!!! On Ice, and wrote the sports anime/romcom of her dreams, heavily influenced by her love of figure skating. I mean, it’s a Hallmark movie plot (talented but anxiety-ridden skater meets his long time idol/crush and they fall in love while training together), but somehow putting it in 13 episodes instead of an hour long movie made me fall hook love and sinker. We’re still waiting for the epilogue movie we were promised. Some day. Some day……

Wow this was so fun, I liked it so much I’m going to start the episode over right now 😌

Sarah, I do think you didn't spend enough time talking about how much of a failure NBC has been at covering Figure Skating (and other Olympic sports). They treat them like a giant spectacle instead of a sport that people actually want to follow. Loved the episode so much!! Thanks for everything.

I'm listening now so maybe you'll address this, but: if you subscribe to Peacock it doesn't really help! Because you can only watch the events live. They do not have them available to stream later, ostensibly due to copyright issues with the music used. I know this because I subscribed to Peacock to watch figure skating. At least I still get to watch Poker Face. 🙄 And I was watching when Ilia Malinin landed that first quad, which was cool to see.

I think Americans are generally aware of either gymnastics or figure skating depending on which Olympics was most recent, but Beijing (and 2022) was so weird overall we missed getting pulled into the regular figure skating excitement.

Sports announcers should always include how many birds a performer has at home (but not why) and whether they're a flat earther.

Not me almost crying to Kirks routine and sharing the video to my mom...

No worries. I’m sure it will be worth the wait 🌺

I love love love Sarah's love for Tonya Harding, I share it! It's far more inaccessible than ice skating but my sports vice is dressage. I understand it because my mum has worked with dressage horses as a trainer and rider for 50 years and I watch it at the Olympics with friends every time who go "....and?" after tests and I give my verdict and they're ALARMED when I'm accurate.

I just needed to share bc this made me happy to think about. But my first ice skating memory is Kristy Yamaguchi skating to Bjork, it’s oh so quiet. She had a white outfit and big Daisy’s or sunflowers and I just it was the best thing! So also began an obsession with Bjork 🤣

True story, I learned how to drive a Zamboni before I learned how to drive a car. 🤷‍♀️

Don't know if my patreon app is buggy or not, but three of those links went to the same haugeto video!

Grew up watching figure skating with my Mum so this is the bees 🐝 knees Sarah and company! Also LOVE when Jamie & Carolyn join us all so this is extraordinary

US champs are in Columbus, Ohio next year if anyone wants to join me!

THANK YOU FOR THIS SARAH!!!

skategate 😳😳

this is my superbowl

my favorite podcast talking about my favorite sport

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