Hunting Serial Killers with Michael Hobbes (long version)

I'm a simple person i see Jerry Orbach in the episode photo and I click play

Oof the comment about being able to zone out of German politics hurt in 2025 😭

Getting the extra episodes for my favorite podcast was the best decision I've ever made. Also I miss Mike on this show so much 🥺

My son just came in the room, heard one or 2 sentences of this episode, and said "It wasn't millennials that killed serial killers. It was DEXTER."

Welcome back, Michael! Love Maintenance Phase and you!!! I also am aware that I’m late to the party. So I hope these late tidings are a truffle to your day.

Fun times! Roxane Gay shared Sarah's Violent Delights piece in her Audacious Round up newsletter!!!

Please more with Michael! Love the reunion and your banter 💜

This was such a good episode. Between the comment about owning real estate and the comparison to dating, the back half of this one had me laughing really hard

I'm a white bisexual woman living in Milwaukee and I'm experiencing in real time how the release of the new Dahmer series is being received and discussed differently depending on the race and sexual orientations of people on both my social media feed and in casual chit chat at my job

i know they're not but doesn't it feels like netflix is mining you're wrong about for societal misconceptions to cash in on?

I honestly love (and wholeheartedly buy into) the theory that serial killers are “on the decline” bc Millennials just don’t have time or money for hobbies.

I joined patreon just to say this THE CAFE IN WHITECHAPEL IS CALLED CEREAL KILLER

First, it was great to have an episode with Sarah and Mike! You're Wrong About definitely helped me get through the pandemic. The serial criminal certainly seems to share some moral panic elements in that coverage is so often designed to spark fear but not solutions. Obviously access to mental health care is still abysmal, but I can't help but wonder if advances in psychology combined with changes in generational parenting styles might contribute to lower numbers? That's not to say that everything isn't trash, but there is a marked difference between the typically cold child rearing of the Greatest and Silent Generations versus Boomer and Gen X parenting styles that tend to be warmer, more open, and more child focused than ever before. Millennials are on track to do even better emotionally as parents if not financially. An abusive parent seems to be a through line when it comes to serial killers and I can't help but wonder if the fact that it's now easier and more socially acceptable to divorce has helped. That's not to imply that leaving an abusive situation is easy by any measure, but certainly there was a jump divorce rates in the 70's along with the passage of CAPTA that may have allowed some percentage of children to be removed from what would have been even longer term abuse in decades past.

I listened to Root of Evil and it was like finding out about the ultimate pannacotta.

I feel so happy you two are podcasting together I was worried when you separated x

Mike's comment about serial killers being able to fly under the radar if they are targeting groups of people who police or society have deemed less valuable really resounded with me. Two infamous Canadian serial killers -- Robert Pickton killed poor sex workers (mostly Indigenous women and girls) from Vancouvers' Lower East Side, and Bruce McArthur murdered mostly Southeast Asian gay men in Toronto, many of them new immigrants or refugees. Both were active within the last 20 years. In both cases, people in the community were raising alarms, but it took a very long time for police to do anything.

Serial killer tik tok!!

Sarah and Mike nailed exactly what it's like to live in London. I moved to murder alley, and Sarah is not exaggerating the price of the rent here

The criminologist David Wilson says there are probably as many serial killers today but because of advances in forensics they now tend to get caught before they kill more than a couple of people.

Okay, Mike but what about Press Gang?! Just kidding but it was great.

Something that occurred to me listening to this is just how few resources this country gives to people while they're still alive

Law and Order had a journalism spinoff. It did not make it a full season.

I really hope that the cafe selling expensive cereal in London that Michael referred to is the divisive Cereal Killer Cafe. (I am a Londoner.) I have finally subscribed to the Patreon having listened to the entire back catalogue 3 times and I finally have a full time job so I can contribute.

I unsubscribed from almost all of my Patreon's awhile back due to financial hardship, but hearing there was an extended cut of this ep with Michael was too much for me, I had to re-subscribe. Awesome work as always!

Can’t wait for the serial killer article, but Sarah, I’d LOVE to read what you have to say about the parallels between the satanic panic and current groomer discourse

Finally! The seminal 1996 CBS dramedy Early Edition getting the recognition it deserves.

Just came here to tell you I saw a crow mourning a dead crow (In Hyde Park, London - lots of crows). It was tragically sad. The crow was just screaming crow sorrow over its dead friend.

Best poddy ever

Can mum and dad please get back together

I am so confused with the new definition of serial killer. The use of the word “serial” in any other context that way flat out would not apply! The example used in the Oxford dictionary is “a serial publication”. It sounds like a way to beef up the statistics to me. Anyway, GREAT episode and I look forward to reading your finished piece, Sarah!

This episode made me so happy!! You two are just legendary together. Love it so much

I saw that Mike was on this episode and have never been quite as excited to listen to a podcast as I was today. Y'all seriously have the best chemistry of any podcast duo I have ever listened too. I literally became a Pateron subscriber just to ask if y'all will please please please make this a much more common thing and have Mike back on the show more frequently! Thanks for being awesome!

It was lovely to hear the voices inside my head back together again! And Sarah, I say "NOT GREAT BOB" nearly daily and no one in my damn life ever understands me so its always nice to have you, the more persistent voice in my head to gets me <3

I wish it were possible to like something twice <3

this was so cathartic!!!

Okay I just gotta say… the 90’s version of Wikipedia was the Encyclopedia, right?

Could some of the falling murder rate be attributed to Miranda Warnings, the need for evidence, less circumstantial murder convictions? Timing doesn’t seem quite right, but who knows!

Mike! I can't believe it's been almost a whole year. This was wonderful. Will you be recording the live shows and releasing them later? Maybe as a Patreon exclusive... I'm too far away to go see any of the lives.

Yay Mike is back! For a moment! Mike and Sarah, you should check out The Newsroom. I loved it. Great TV show about tv journalists. Not quite a procedural, but still a great show that lasted multiple seasons

My thorough enjoyment of this episode made it feel only five minutes long, which makes me feel impossible to please as you have blessed us with an hour long edit. Thanks for playing y'all's version of Freebird by combining true(r) crime and Mike, this was such a delight.

Only partway through the episode, but wanted to add an interesting observation about journalism shows. We actually talked about them during film school as a format that people try to make work every few years that never go beyond a season. The one “newsroom” show that I can think of that lasted? Lois and Clark: the new Adventures of Superman (4 seasons). There was, however, a very clear mechanism for serving justice (Clark/Superman turning the supervillain over to the police) even if parts of the episode were basically a group of journalists investigating things

Yay! Fun to hear Sarah and Mike together! An idea for Sarah’s article, kind of related to Mike’s observation about refugees: MMIW

thank you for the extra conversation!!! this made my whole week! also, Sarah, is it possible for you to gather all your articles together & publish them as a book? I feel like we ALL would buy it!!!

I SOBBED happy tears when I saw Michael's name. I binged this podcast thru a really difficult time & I've been chasing the high of the Sarah + Michael days since. Love u mom & dad <3 seconding a request for you (both??) to come to Boston!!

I love this long cut!

Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! (Everything about this made me happy. Thank you.)

Omggg this is everything I wanted and needed!

YAY! So nice to hear the two of you together again.

Is it possible that fewer murders are being solved because authorities are less likely to just pick a random suspect to pin it on? Or maybe reliable forensic (DNA) evidence result in fewer faulty convictions? I have no reason to believe this but hoping for a positive spin on the declining solve rate.

I love when my friends from inside the phone come together

I can't believe Mike neglected to mention the cereal place is CALLED CEREAL KILLER

I somehow feel Mathew Grey Gubler should be a guest on this show — as himself or as Spencer Reid. You’re Wrong About FBI profilers? You’re Wrong About Eidetic Memory? You’re Wrong About serial killers part III?

Reunited and it feels so good! 😍

I live in Washington DC and we have had an active serial killer in our region recently. His name is Anthony Robinson and they call him "the shopping cart killer" because he used shopping carts to transport the bodies of his victims. He has been in police custody since November 2021 and police believe him to be responsible for the murders of at least 5 women.

I’m listening to this podcast from Whitechapel!! Can confirm it has been on a slow creep of gentrification for some twenty years now. Any time you’re walking around the Brick Lane area, where one of the murders took place, you have about a 50% chance of overhearing one of the really gross Ripper tours. (The other 50% of the time it will be a Kray twins tour.) There are several businesses with jokey Ripper-themed names, including at one point two on the same street- a fish and chip shop called Jack the Chipper, and a barbers called Jack the Clipper. Also, I cannot believe you didn’t mention that the cereal cafe was called Cereal Killer!! It was also on Brick Lane, so I can only assume that it was also a Ripper-themed business name. I find the whole ironic hipster cutesification of Jack the Ripper pretty gross. People really do treat him more like Dracula or Frankenstein’s monster than someone who gruesomely murdered many real, actual women.

Finally subscribed just so I could hear the long version! And now I can go and listen to the Heard episode that has been teasing me on Apple Podcasts. Woo!

Yay for long versions! Hope this isn't too off topic. It's more of a tangent.: This episode made me think of the book Unbelievable by T. Christian Miller about a serial rapist. I found it interesting how the author approached writing about the rapist himself. He really wanted to avoid making him the "main character" (as you captured the idea) and achieved this. But they still really stick to the whole idea of a psychopath. However, I was concerned about how the main cop who solved the case talked about the rapist. There were interpretations of what he said and how he acted that seemed off based on the information given. I know that body language and tone communicate a lot of underlying meaning but she also seemed to be projecting a trope onto home as well. Not saying he's a sympathetic guy obviously, but it's important not to do that kind of thing. Anyway, has anyone else on here read this book? What did you think? And Sarah if you actually found the time to read this comment, thank you!

Great move with the long version, finally made me take the plunge.

i know this wasn’t really what the episode was about, but don’t we all agree that the reason the “solve” rate on murders is declining is because cops/prosecutors need *actual evidence now, as opposed to just say-eye witness testimony and vibes? anyway. i love you!

I thought Sarah being on Films to be Buried with would be the most delightful surprise in my podcast feed this month, and now Mike’s back home?! Christmas came early

Ahhhhh! You made my whole Monday!

CRYING abt the existence of another Michael and Sarah ep!!!!! Missed this so much 💕💕💕💕💕💕

Sarah, Mike may not have caught your “Take My Breath Away” joke but I just wanted to let you know I did

Dad, mom I've missed you guys being together & I hope that it will be a more frequent occurrence in the future. Love you both so very much 🥰💞

This was so good! And in terms of more speculation re: why there’s less serial killer narratives nationally…does anyone else think that the cops and the media have kinda figured out that most of these narratives make police & law enforcement look a bit bumbling and behind? They’re usually so baffled until they’re not in the retelling- perhaps they and media have figured out that it’s not a good look? The priority of instilling public fear of the serial killer story has been replaced by the fear about the randomness of mass shootings. And until Uvalde, the hero cops handling a shooter all in one day *was* a good look for them. Just some abolitionist thoughts… Much love for this reunion!

What a treat! Miss you Mike!

UK TV show "Press" from 2018 was kind of a journalism procedural. It was pretty good. Love this show, love you both!

I'm so happy!!!

soooo excited to listen to this episode. if you guys ever decide to do an episode in Boston I will be there.

Woke up this morning to a Marshall and Hobbs episode and gasped outloud. Best day-after-9/11 ever

Also - the cereal shop in Shoreditch is totally relevant here because it was called CEREAL KILLERS 😂 And it wasn’t even artisanal cereal - it was Frosties and Coco Pops and whatnot!

Even before you had cheap newspapers, you had murder ballads and the Newgate Calendar. I read a book recently about Victorian activist Josephine Butler ("Patron Saint of Prostitutes" by Helen Mather), and the police in the late 19th century basically assumed any unmarried working class woman who spent too much time around men was a sex worker (who could then be harrassed and imprisoned under the CD Acts). So it would not surprise me if they assumed the same of Jack the Ripper's victims. Cops and British tabloids have always been shitty! The idea of lack of access to property and the expense of owning a car as barriers to serial killing is bleakly very funny. Serial killers are being priced out of the market like everyone else, smdh

When I was at university, there was a TV programme called New York News, which was on in the middle of the night and was a bit like Superman, but without any of the super bits. I’ve never been able to find it since - sometimes I wonder whether it was actually some kind of repeating fever dream…

You can tell Mike has returned because the email came at like 6am

THE RETURN OF THE KING

ahhhhh!!! i am so so excited for this ep!! thank u sarah and michael!!

Oh, so you're only a serial killer if the killings are unlawful! That means that tthe brave profilers on Criminal Minds, who invariably shoot their suspects to death, are not serial killers themselves after all! That's a relief...

Aw what a wonderful episode! Thanks for sharing an extended version. Lovely to have Mike back as well. It makes me think of a quote from the Sea of Trolls (a middle grade book by Nancy Farmer that comprised approximately 20% of my personality as a fifth grader). It reads thus, "When Jack returned from his journeys, he went straight to the cauldron of soup over the fire. It hung there day and night, a rich pottage of peas, barley, parsnips, and onions. Now and then the Bard threw in a handful of herbs, so the character of the soup changed, but it was always good." The character of the show is consistently great, and with the rotating guest structure you've had lately, it's like getting a fresh handful of herbs as they come into season. Also love referring to him as host emeritus lol. I was just thinking as he was stopping himself from referring back down the dad route that it was kind of like having a teacher in a school year that was around for the first month and then dipped for parental leave -- you're surprised and excited to get them back for the last couple of weeks of the school year hahah. Hope you have a great time with the live shows, Sarah! Stay hydrated out there!

I love this so much. Since I can listen to both of your voices and your talks for hours, extended and uncut versions will always be the best for me. ❤️ And the topic is always an interesting one for me. I think our fascination with serial killers and crime is as old as time. Where we had monsters and mythical horrors in the past we just adapted this over time. As an offset to our humanity, as an "other". And with our misconception that the world is getting crueler (I am not suggesting it is peachy but problems are shifting and we have a tendency to focus on the wrong stuff) we probably need bigger and scarier monsters to really pay attention. Because what's a "simple murder" when there are war crimes and pain happening all around. (/s) True crime to me often seems just the new extension in formats on television and podcast to feed our curiosity with the other. Where there have been circus shows and curiosity cabinets in the past and casting shows and the likes in the 2010s, this feels like just another possibility to gawk and gasp... I wish I could catch your life shows because those sound awesome but alas, I have to go to my business call on the nude beach. ;) Greetings and thank you both for this awesome pod!

excellent opening. sarah i too have listened to jiggle jiggle about 83 times in the last week

on the question of tv shows that challenge structures of power on a case/bad-guy-of-the-week basis: did you guys watch Leverage? it ran originally on TNT for a few seasons from 2008-12. it’s pretty awesome. it’s tagline is literally: „the rich and powerful take what they want. we steal it back for you.“ quite radical for 2008. never saw anything else like it, would highly recommend. - much love (from a nude beach in munich, germany)

(Aaaaaaaaah!!)

the bands back together!!

Is this all extra or is it just an extended version? Should I listen to both episodes?