What Amber Heard, w. Jamie Loftus

Listening again in January 2026. ICE is murdering citizens in the street

Listening in August 2025

Listening to this June 2025, Trump has ordered the National Guard to break up a peaceful protest in LA.

listening to this during may of 2025. trumps second term and the proposals to suspend habeas corpus… anyways sorry i have to add to the time capsule

Checking in from the second week of trump's second term. He has just ordered the relief of dams in California after the LA wildfires. Water wars feels a bit too apt 😅

Just leaving this here…. https://www.yahoo.com/news/amber-heard-trolled-saudi-backed-151407002.html

If anyone is here recently and wants more resources about the case to listen to or read: - UK trial testimonies and judgment: https://reportingdeppvheard.net/depp-v-ngn/documents/ - Experts supporting Amber Heard: https://amberopenletter.com/ - Amici briefs to the appeals court from experts who support Amber Heard: 1. https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/ce0ccea9-fb79-43fb-a310-ecb1ea048532/1062-22-4%20Amici%20Brief%20(4).pdf 2. https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/ce0ccea9-fb79-43fb-a310-ecb1ea048532/pdfjoiner%20(1).pdf - Medusone on YouTube has a three-part series going through the timeline in the deepest depth anyone has done so far. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6-PCAgiRLoHB1Va1ptVjs04mra_GUn0j&si=f83IuX8l35ARgT-U - Who Trolled Amber? podcast about the bot infestation surrounding the case.

Listening in November 2024. This really is a time capsule two years later. Also, I was in Europe while the trial happened and I was trying to avoid it, just enjoying my vacation. And i wasn’t at all seeking out new information and it was all over my tl. Completely unavoidable.

Listening on September 1, 2024 - more than 2 years after this was released, and can confirm I do not at all recall what was happening during summer of 2022

I'm listening to this on July 20, 2024 - just 4 days away from the 2 year anniversary of the episode - and we're still dealing with the repercussions of that trial, and it's still being hotly debated on social media. And, in parts of the world, there are people fighting for water, as well as their lives. 🍉🍉🍉 I wish I could go back in time and tell 2022 Jamie and Sarah that things will get better, but so far, that's a big fat lie.

listening to this in june 2024 and yeah… so much has happened since this episode came out

Listening in June 2024. This lawsuit seems much longer ago and also more recent. Time is fake. Also, my first thought when I heard about this whole debacle was "Yeah, I'm sure he did it. He beat the shit out of Winona Ryder in the 90s." And I'm a fan of a lot of his work.

Me listening to this in March 24, “someone listening to this even 2 years from now…”

Thank you for this. I’m a DV survivor who was slandered after and this public attack on a survivor was hard for me to get through personally

me @ 1:27:00 "sounds like she was just dressing for fucking court?!" I really never considered the rhetoric around her clothes, glad this came up. It wouldn't have mattered a ton how she presented - people would find a way to make that mean something. Like - I THINK SHE'S JUST DRESSED FOR WHAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE WORST TIMES OF HER LIFE. lmao

I recommend everyone listen to the new podcast Who Trolled Amber? It's a deep investigative dive into the trolls/bots and how it impacted this trial. Really important listen!

Fuck, I’m only 1:30min in and I need to hear this so much, thank you Sarah and Jamie

Just listened - thank you Sarah and Jamie for the insight

i just finally joined the patreon amd got to listen to this. thank you so much for talking about how upsetting and triggering it was to try and engage with the trial, let alone defend amber anywhere. i understand making this episode private but i do wish i could send it to everyone. the empathy you bring to the discourse is so needed.

This is such an important conversation. Thank you for the insight.

loopI've been abused by men and women throughout my life and I found it disheartening that the hosts decided that a "good" outcome equated to the jury finding in favor of the woman in this case without having detailed information regarding evidence. while I agree there's been problematic and inexcusable rhetoric aimed toward AH, I found it surprising that the hosts tiptoed around the concept of a woman as an abusive party. That does not mean that JD was not abusive. I believe both were and from my experience being abused by women and men I found that there was compelling evidence to shed light on this reality. Frankly I was triggered by both of them at one point or another. Neither of them are my champion and they both seem to have a lot of healing to do.

You reminded me of a trial I had as a defense attorney. One of the potential jurors said "I was trained by the CIA to see who's lying, and the defendant is a liar". I was stunned--and also, the dude totally had no "training", but all the rest of the jurors said they agreed with this so-called expert.

About to start this episode, but I will say as a WOC, raised in severe poverty and survived domestic and sexual violence. My problem with amber actually is her essay and how she portrays herself as a champion for people like me. You guys said your self during the OJ Simpson trials that rich famous people do not have the same relationships to the judicial system. A rich white woman has no place speaking as a champion for domestic abuse survivors in my opinion. That’s where my beef sits. Call me angry and a gate keeper but her story is not comparable to the majority of what poor woman of color go through and it was hard for me personally to derive a lot of empathy towards her for that reason. Or at least with the way her original essay portrays herself is what ticks me off.

this episode really should be public. the wider audience needs to hear this

I wish this episode was not just for subscribers because I think it needs to be shared with so many of my friends who don’t understand why anyone would think to defend Amber.

The Sun is a daily British newspaper FYI (not a magazine)

Woah, wait, Princess Weekes does videos on stuff like this, too? I only knew about her from Magic: the Gathering content, specifically guest appearances on other channels. What a small world. Thank you for linking her in the description, because I’ll have to check out her non-Magic works!

I'm so glad you did an episode on this! Scrolling for my FYP on TikTok while the trial was ongoing was really disheartening – it was wild to see how many teens in particular were just posting horrible things about it all. Unrelated, but I think a great Book Club deep dive ep topic would be Jeanette McCurdy's new memoir

Sarah Marshall, you are literally one of the greatest thinkers of our generation.

Thank you, Sarah and Jamie—I do want to say that your comment about feeling dissuaded to discuss this topic based on tweets giving the impression that YWA was less about reflection and preventing history from repeating itself and more about entertainment seems more pessimistic an interpretation than what I read from them. I think ppl wrote those tweets in the spirit of “we hope someday this debacle will be evaluated more critically and YWA is able to convey things so sensibly and with thoughtful research that by the time things settle down an episode on this might be able to change some minds and restore some dignity to those involved.” That was my take, even though the tweets themselves sounded glib I think it was in the spirit of hoping peoples’ minds can be changed, even if right now it seems impossible. 💚 love all you do and appreciate your work so much! As someone who had to take the stand once as a victim but didn’t “behave enough like a victim” to convince some jurors this whole ordeal has been so difficult for me. Really appreciate you.

Can you please do an episode on Dan Schneider, child abuser extraordinaire? It’s so eery to think about all the shows I loved growing up knowing so many of the actors were traumatized and exploited in their making.

watching a man who abused my best friend/ex while they were together, a man who we'd been forced to continue working with as a colleague and had to repeatedly explain the bad behavior of to close friends to explain why we only showed him base courtesy and weren't going to invite him out for drinks after shows, post in relief of the defamation decision... was infuriating. the complete lack of awareness of the actual parallels while still clearly identifying himself with Depp was incredibly frustrating, especially as this man is also an actor who's well known for talent but also being very difficult to work with. how is it so hard to believe that men who have barely acceptable behavior in public would be worse in private?

I would also love to share this, my younger sister in law said some TROUBLING things about Heard based on things she saw online. Very scary

Thanks so much for this episode! It's actually my primary source of information about this. Much like you and others hear, I didn't think it was important given everything else going on. I don't use social media, so I was able to avoid it A friend of mine did ask me what I thought about it at the peak of interest in it. First, I said roe v Wade is in danger, covid's ongoing, and Russia's attacking Ukraine, so I really don't care about a fight between 2 rich famous people. And second, with very little information, I'd guess people are quick to drag Amber Heard rather than see Depp as a bad guy. And without definitive proof either way, I always side with the person with the least power. In this case, Amber Heard, because literally no matter what happens Depp will be perfectly fine. Unsurprisingly someone who overhead immediately started saying a bunch of the stuff about her you mentioned and talking about poor him. Anyway, I had been wondering about it. Sad to see, my initial thoughts were mostly correct, except that it sounds like there actually was a lot of evidence

Is there any chance of this being released beyond Patreon? There are soooo many people I'd love to share this with. The glee with which people ripped her apart was so unsettling.

Thank you so much for giving us the nuanced discussion of this trial and moment in popculture we all needed.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for this episode. My social media was absolutely infiltrated by this trial despite all my attempts to avoid it. I had to actively seek out a couple of articles supporting Amber Heard to cleanse myself of the film of endless pro-Depp memes. At the end of the day I really just thought none of this shit is my business and I’m glad to hear the same from others.

Such a perfect YWA episode. Heartbreakingly true but ty for the uplifting takeaways. The dual victim argument feels very much like “she was asking for it”. Also appreciate not going into the gory details of he said/she said. I was also one of those ppl who had to actively choose not to engage and also felt guilty for not tuning in on her defense—so I loved your thoughts of tuning off as an attempt at resistance. But alas, it still feels like if we don’t engage….we’re ignoring what’s happening, which is def not the case here.

This episode drove home a completely different point for me- I really do think Twitter is trash and I'm really glad I've never had a personal Twitter account. I also think why prior retrospective episodes maybe land better is we do have distance from our initial feelings about something. I always love Sarah's point that an individual contains multitudes. That goes for each one of us. Humans are emotional creatures, movements and panics have been with us for centuries. I sit with the quandry if we can ever escape that, especially in a world of social media megaphones. I actually would be interested in a follow up episode in 2 years. I do believe there are some perspectives, resolutions, and takeaways that come only with time and distance.

Counter point: Jumping to conclusions and then defending yourself instead of apologizing is exactly what YWA is supposed to combat. If you only listened to the first couple minutes and wrote a nasty comment you should just apologize. You were wrong, it is actually embarrassing to share a patronage with people who so entirely miss the point of the entire podcast.

I can understand people jumping to the conclusion that this wasn’t as well researched when Sarah and Jenn stumbled on names or details and admitted their avoidance of the case in the beginning. But I think we forget not everyone has been inhaling this like oxygen since 2016 like i have. When I heard the initial details of this it became a battle I felt I have to fight and the constant consumption feels like it’s poisoning me. Sarah and Jenn both state they went back and did the work to do this episode even if their information isn’t as exhaustive as mine is after filling my brain with it for years. Johnny Depp is an abuser, full stop. Law tube grifters can say whatever but DV and IPV experts have almost unanimously come out in support of Amber Heard. You are wrong about Johnny Depp you are wrong about Amber lying and you need to wake up. Even saying she isn’t the perfect victim is almost untrue. She has a huge list of advocacy and humanitarianism she was doing for her entire life. The unsealed documents were released today and Johnny Depp tried to get nudes of her submitted and created a lie about her commiting vehicular homicide. He and his witness and his lawyers got on the stand and said pictures of completely destroyed property was just rearranging a closet and clear photos of someone passed out was just “taking a regular nap” No, my strange misinformed peeps in the comments, that is not a credible case. And it is absolutely fair to say a non sequestered jury in a giant celebrity trial would be influenced by outside sources. Please do not be chumps. We came to this podcast to not be chumps. You can take Sarah’s work and word for -everything- else and yet this time THIS TIME she somehow got it all wrong and forgot all her journalistic standards? It can be really hard to accept you made a mistake when you spent so long making it but no day like today, fam. I feel the stress, and disillusionment and constant triggering of my own abuse from this story killing me is body and soul, but I am extremely committed to justice for actual victims. I would greatly appreciate if the bile I was subsisting on wasn’t for nothing. Emily D Baker is a grifter, may her name and impact be banished from these comments forever.

Thank you for doing this one. I really appreciate your show and it has really changed the way I think about controversial topics like this. I always felt funny about the whole situation between Amber and Johnny. I flip flopped and thought it was a mutual abuse thing at first, but I no longer think that way after reading Michael's article and listening to this. I'm trying not to write a lot here, so I'm just going to put the dumbest, most frustrating takes I've heard about the whole situation because I desperately want to talk about them and everyone I know thinks Amber is a villain. One girl I know is convinced that Amber is abusive to her dog because it recoiled from her at some point I guess. I do not know where she got this information or how she would know this. But because of this she is convinced Amber is guilty of abusing Johnny Depp. Another girl I know couldn't understand why Amber was looking at the jury while testifying. She said something along the lines like “It's like she's trying to convince the jury to believe her story!”. I think that's the point of trials with juries, but what do I know. This was all in one conversation on the first girl's Twitch and I talk to both of them frequently. I'm not going to handle it well if they say any of this to me in person. Anyway, thank you for doing this again if you see this. Thank you for all of your hard work. All of my bones still hurt.

This is the episode that finally convinced me to be a Patreon supporter after almost 2 years of dedicated listening to the podcast. I needed to hear a conversation about this trial that didn't make me feel actually insane, and of course Sarah and Jamie delivered. Thank you!!

Thank you for making this episode. This was the first trial I’ve seen since I started listening to “youre wrong about” that has proven this show has changed me forever. From the start, watching memes & tiktoks about Amber Heard made me sick to my stomach. Its like i was fighting everything society had taught me to believe up until this point. Watching countless friends and family members jump on the bandwagon disgusted me. Please release this episode on spotify so i can share it publicly!

I loved this. I love you Sarah and Jamie. I just want to add that even in your retrospective ‘you’re wrong abouts’ you are making an incredible difference and contribution to current affairs. You have increased my compassion / self compassion and awareness of unfair coverage particularly of women and marginalised groups ten fold. You have completely changed my relationship to current affairs in a really positive way, you have made me feel more connected to and care more about the people involved and I can never thank you enough for that. You’re doing important work

To Sarah's comment about "screaming into the void": Tha fact that you and Jennifer produced this episode is proof that the void isn't as deep or empty as it used to be. I heard you and agree (mostly) that Amber was treated WAY more negatively than Johnny for behavior that was WAY less troubling than his (all of which has been well documented). That said, I want to thank you for bringing this topic to light and for bringing nuance to an issue that we (society) have long glossed over ...there is no "perfect" victim and Amber shouldn't be made the poster child for "gold-digging bitches" everywhere. The public shaming and skewering of her saddens me and it just makes me want to work harder to push back against our culture's ingrained institutional misogyny.

Absolutely my favourite podcast but I don't think I can bring myself to listen to this episode. As an abuse survivor who sees my situation reflected in Amber's I just can't handle the rage I know it'll induce. The first YWA I've ever skipped and I'm sad about that.

A little late to the parade, but that was wonderful and I actually paused, rewound and painfully transcribed Sarah's last little speech about not loosing sight perpetrators' humanity on my phone. Just wanted to let you know that you're doing wonderful work

This was fantastic. I hope you release it in the main feed eventually. I do feel that definite motivation to take what I’ve learned from this show and try to be an engine for good but it’s so hard! Especially on Twitter. That note you end on is important to ruminate on. Thank you.

Worked as volunteer in women shelters in ME having seen 1st hand women abused Amber did not fit the bill. Rich women get abused and their experience are not different than any other woman.

Agree, well considered review. I was sure he would lose because of the previous losses, the timeline of the tanking of his career AND that she never said his name in those articles. In the end, if was a trial of who hired a better legal team wrapped up in the misogyny. (And anyone who has divorced a partner who is abusive in any way knows about how the legal system can be an extension and tool of that abuse, even if the abusive party doesn't wield it particularly adeptly, the rules are set up in a way that it just causes more trauma, not to mention the trauma of being bankrupted trying to, for example, keep your kids away from an abuser.)

Thank you both for doing this! I just wanted to share a little story that is relevant: I'm a server and more than once I've walked up to a table where the tweens are reenacting Amber's testimony for their parents, for comedic purposes. Like it's still happening, just last week.

Thanks, Sarah for your really insightful comments about abuse, about how we see victims, and about abusers.

This episode is beautifully laid out. I unfortunately had the wrong opinion on this for too long but I had a nagging feeling I was wrong. It really took the extreme amount of JD propoganda to get me to course correct, Michael’s article to set me straight, and this episode to help me understand how and why all the barrage of media influenced me and give myself some grace. Even when we know manipulation by media is possible it’s really easy to think we’ll be immune to it and really important to remember we’re not. Thank you thank you for this important episode.

Hi Sarah and Jamie! I too was initially like, I can ignore this! I have bigger shit to worry about! And then proceeded to be bombarded by the trial, not just by social media but by TEXT MESSAGES FROM MY MOM who was apparently sick in bed with Covid and glued to every moment of the trial. Unfortunately her takeaway once it was over was: HE WON SEE SHE LIED AND MADE IT ALL UP which, even tho I did not watch the trial I thought wasn’t the point?? How can someone watch the whole trial and miss the entire point. So thank you Sarah and Jamie for researching and watching the trial for me. Heavy sigh.

Anybody who is diagnosing people with mental illnesses in these comments, shame on you. You're helping to stigmatize mental health issues. You don't know what you're talking about, you've not met and consulted with these people to give them any kind of a diagnosis. I would also hazard a guess you're not mental health professionals. So stop it.

You don't know why Gen Z likes Johnny Depp..? He's Willy Wonka and the Mad Hatter........

I left this ep feeling like adulting is just unlearning black and white thinking. Side note, I really hope Sarah has a cat or at least gets to consume an hour of cat videos a day to keep the doctor away. Finally, I really recommend Zoe Whittall’s novel “The Best Kind of People” if you’re interested in some light reading re: people we love doing shitty shitty shitty things and trying to reconcile those two pieces.

Also YWA “We Are the World,” the OG and the 25 year anniversary

I don’t know here to post suggestions but a YWA about Eminem would be a good challenge and a joy to hear — from Moby to the “stanning,” to the almost redemption anti-trump freestyle. I foresee a 2 or even 3 parter!

I think there's a lot to reflect on in Sarah's comment that we can struggle to accept loving people who abuse others. I think it's harder for many of us than it is to accept that we can love people who abuse or harm ourselves. Thank you, Sarah and Jaime, for this episode. It's important to talk about these things as they happen, especially when a whole lot of the world is doing its reporting from 1994. Graphics might be the only thing that have come a long way since then.

I wish the ableist element of the anti-Heard mob had been brought up. They trot out people with BPD that are like "Yep, we're all narcissistic sociopaths that don't have souls!" the way Gamergate would trot me out to read a line and then shoo me off.

Great work Sarah and Jamie! For everyone who wants to talk about she abused him back I highly recommend (I’m 100% serious) watching seasons 1-3 of Jersey Shore. Watch Sammi and Ronnie, and then tell me straight faced that’s mutual abuse.

Quick, someone do a Venn Diagram of the “people claiming the hosts didn’t watch the whole trial” and “people who only listened to 30 minutes of this episode”. It’s gotta be as round as a clown’s nose 😆 Great work from Sarah and Jamie.

I’m still reading through the comments here, but since I’ve seen this mentioned a few times, I thought I heard Jamie say that she did watch almost all of the trial in preparation for this episode.

My husband and I had a big discussion about the trial last night. It's apparent listening to him that beyond any evidence presented showing abuse, the way his attorneys attacked her character and made her witnesses look like they knew nothing impacted him. He would have voted guilty. He watched a lot of the testimony (don't ask) and it's also clear that some key evidence was excluded by the judge. Also, the "faked" photos. Which, in reading about them and seeing them, if she did manipulate them it's obvious in the untouched photos that she has injuries. The expert seems to say she changed lighting and size, which I can see why she may want to to try to. My husband really bought into the idea that she faked a lot and was out to boost her career (look how well it worked!), which makes no sense since she pretty much stayed silent until Johnny started suing everyone. It's obvious that the jury was more interested in character assassination than libel. And how did this case even make it to the docket?

I felt really anxious to listen to this episode after looking through the comments, but the podcast was (as always) wonderful and insightful. If the comments give anyone else anxiety, hopefully this helps alleviate it!

I really appreciate you both covering this. Is the missing nuance legal definitions? I don't think someone has to watch every second of the trial to see how the legal system failed another victim. I experienced DV and was told by a family member (retired deputy sheriff) that no one would believe me and the police would think I was retaliating so I never came forward. I can't imagine dealing with a trial let alone a media spectacle. I would think in a community that empathasizes with "messy bimbos", we could see past this manufactured true crime adjacent JD propaganda. I'm holding space for others who have also felt isolated by the trial, family members, and this comment section.

Thank you for this. Worst of times indeed. I was surprised that no thing was made of the fact that he didn’t show up in-person for the verdict. It’s minor in terms of the overall story, but I felt like it was a major F-you to the legal system, to the taxpayers who pay for the court system and an F-you to the jury who had to be there for all of that time. He brought the suit in the first place. It speaks to his entitlement and power.

Sarah are you able to moderate comments on patreon? This comment section is really disheartening to see in a community where I thought we all knew better. Thank you for covering this with you usual degree of insight and empathy, and allowing room for nuance. I don’t care if you saw every moment of the trial, you don’t need to comb through every second of her reactions or testimony to see that the abuse was mutual, and that the media has maligned her in a way that would never happen to JD and has never happened to a male celebrity in this way. Your research is about a pattern of incidents just like this one. It doesn’t take tonya harding level research into every single case to see that this is part of a larger cultural phenomenon. That is not the kind of scrutiny or standard that I think your patrons should be holding you to, every single time you decide to discuss something publicly. I think you did this justice without claiming to be an expert source, and that’s responsible. I’m saying this mostly for the other commenters, if that isn’t obvious, because so many people have decided to call the ethics of this episode into question in ways that i think are unfair and implicitly in JD’s favor.

Thank you, Sarah and Jamie. Many others have stated their concerns with some of the comments on this post. My only additional contribution is that people really need to look into abuse dynamics and the fact that abuse is about power and control. When you examine this case through that lens, things become quite clear. I suggest reading "Why Does He Do that?" which talks about abuse, its dynamics, and how the legal system does a disservice to victims.

Reading through some of these comments is really disheartening. Some are fond of saying, “you needed to watch the trial.” Did you watch the entire thing? Did you miss even a minute? If so, maybe you missed something crucial? And if we needed to watch the trial, why do people keep taking five second clips, posting them online, and thinking it proves anything? Why can we conclude Amber is guilty from a five second clip, but not that she’s innocent? Further, the trial itself. So many people are pointing to legal technicalities which explain the verdict and critics just don’t get it. Are we just going to ignore years, and decades, and centuries of systematic misogyny in the legal system? Are we just ignoring that it was the patriarchy that set up this system? Are we all just now going to pretend that Heard must have been treated fairly by that system, that the system is all better now? Assume the verdict was correct. Shouldn’t that make us mad as hell that victims can still be treated this way? Or, because it’s Depp, do we just not care and make an exception for him?

Thank you so much for this episode. It’s reassuring that I’m not the only one who thinks this verdict is awful.

I feel like the "mutual abuse" thing should be the concluding piece of evidence here, and the fact that isn't leads me to believe that people/the jury didn't understand what this case was about. Mutual abuse (and let's remember that this was evidence presented by Depp's team) means both partners abuse each other. Which in turn means, Depp abused Heard. It also means Heard abused Depp. But Johnny Depp didn't write an article saying he was a victim of domestic abuse. Amber Heard wrote an article saying she was a victim of domestic abuse. That makes the only legally relevant part of this that Depp abused Heard. So logically, according to Depp's own lawyers, he did abuse her. That should mean that Heard didn't defame Depp in her article. Like, I'm glad we're talking about toxic relationships and male victims of abuse, but I feel like a lot of people are still treating this like it's an abuse competition of who was worse, and it's isn't. It's only about whether Heard was abused by Depp, not how bad it was, or what it was like in the context in their overall relationship -- simply did it happen. And the odd thing is everyone seems to admit it did happen, to some capacity. Everything about this verdict seems absolutely baffling to me, including the contradictory verdicts that Heard is both lying and not lying at the same time.

Also, the gas station is also the only place I see Maria Menounos 😆

Thank you for this episode! I am so grateful for YWA as it has inspired me to become a better critical thinker. I started out watching this trial as a strong JD supporter. But not long into it, I started to recognize the all too familiar signs of maligned women in media and society. I feel like because of this podcast and Sarah’s work, I was more aware of what was happening which allowed me view the trial and evidence through a critical lens. The treatment of Amber Heard has been appalling, and if nothing else, I am glad that there are some influential people who are helping to bring attention to it now and not 10 or 20 years down the road.

Great episode. Thank you for covering this. I’m a DV victim myself. I will admit, I at first bought into the idea that they were both equally bad. Michael Hobbes and lots of reading on this turned me around.

Opppfff didn’t know JD stans who ignore DV to justify nostalgic thirst would be here

This is/was QAnon for Disney adults.

Even if everything Johnny Depp said is true - we know for a fact he openly called the mother of his children a c* and joked about assaulting his ex’s corpse, has smashed up hotel rooms, and been violent towards crew on productions. This isn’t someone anyone should be gleefully celebrating.

I loved this episode, but some of the comments here kept me up last night. It is extremely disheartening to come to this community, built around a podcast that specifically sheds light on the horrifying way the media and public opinion treat women, and find someone thinking they can diagnose someone (with a controversial diagnosis, nonetheless) based on their public presence and the content of a trial. I’m also stuck on this idea that Depp’s addiction somehow means he shouldn’t be held accountable for his actions. People in addiction are deserving of empathy and care, but that doesn’t mean that there should not be consequences for their actions. Thank you Sarah and Jamie for putting this out, it’s an important discussion, proven even more so by the fact that even fans of the show don’t seem to see the forest for the trees.

Thank you so much for covering this. I am former victim/current survivor of intimate partner violence and hearing the constant victim blaming and hatred toward Heard has been so triggering and I can only imagine the same for other survivors and current victims. I have chosen to not engage with that kind of media and was hesitant to listen to this but I’m so glad I did. It was really comforting to hear.

I’m surprised how many YWA listeners are still eager to condemn Heard or support JD. Throughout the trial, I kept being reminded of YWA episodes- tonya, Nicole Brown,etc, where a woman is just torn apart by the media and most of the public seems to join in gleefully. Sarah made the excellent point that had Nicole Brown survived and sought justice, the press and public would have made a mockery of her. It’s not until a woman is found dead that she is taken seriously.The point is that the lesson wasn’t learned- we still collectively hate women.

Honestly he didn’t even make a good Grindlewald 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm glad someone is speaking the truth, because so few have about this trial.

Thank you for being my friend. I needed this!

Thanks. I didn’t realise it, but you two are the exact people I needed to hear unpacking this hideous thing.

Can’t wait to listen to this - I’m going to try to save it for when I go for a run 😀

Thank you for the episode.

Great cover photo.

I'm only about halfway through so far but I have to say I'm with merendalorian here. I know Sarah said she only watched about an hour? And Jaime mentioned watching on law and crime but not how much. My observation is that almost everyone who watched the trial--even those who came in strongly believing that it was ambers case to lose legally and factually--eventually ended up concluding that the jury verdict, at least on the initial three claims made by Johnny--was absolutely correct. Further almost everyone who relied on the media for information reached a conclusion in line with their own general political leanings. This was certainly the case for me. It feels REPULSIVE to be on the same "side" as mens rights advocates. And I'm not. I don't believe she's an intentionally manipulative shrew for one. But uncomfortably their ideology and my feminist parsing of the trial itself led us to the "same" conclusion. At least superficially. All the legal experts I followed throughout the trial said this was ambers case to lose--the legal standards are almost impossibly high for celebrity defamation cases--but she managed to lose it fair and square. Critically a big part of why she lost was had nothing to do with evidence (both sides had things that they wanted in but that were excluded as not meeting the standards of evidence for a trial) but rather with her legal strategy and her own lack of credibility on the stand (not the "fake tears" and "cocaine snorts" of tik tok but things like giving a detailed and graphic account of her alleged physical and sexual abuse such that no reasonable person could believe that the resulting injuries would not require immediate critical care--care she herself says she never sought). I'm also deeply disappointed that you blew off the idea that mental health was an important part of the story in less than a sentence. Mental health is more or less the ENTIRETY of this story--both his and hers. Both amber and Johnny are deeply damaged humans, haunted by their own past traumas and acting out the patterns they learned as children on each other in a deeply damaging way. Johnny very clearly has anger issues and major substance abuse disorder. I wouldn't argue that he wasn't sometimes verbally abusive to Amber. Amber very clearly has borderline personality disorder and was acting out her own past trauma on Johnny as well. They both need empathy and help, Amber especially, not ridicule and derision. A truly feminist reaponse to the whole situation would be to focus on getting Amber (who does not deserve, but also can't seem to help herself from provoking, the public humiliation being heaped on her) the help she needs to disengage and get appropriate mental health support. Borderline is notoriously difficult to treat. And it's not her fault that she has the disorder anymore than it's her fault that she suffered childhood trauma. But by continuing to center her in a media narrative of victimhood we are doing her no service in finding true recovery. For anyone interested in nuanced, progressive leaning, empathetic, expert analysis of this case I would point you to Emily d baker (former da who now covers pop culture law) for legal commentary and dr Kirk Honda of psychology in Seattle (who is an expert in cluster b personality disorders with a highly nuanced take). Both are on YouTube and also have podcasts And both have watched the entire trial.

Oh my gosh I so appreciated this conversation. It’s so full, how do you fit so much into an episode?? As a mom of a GenZer it’s totally Pirates of the Caribbean. “Someone you love can still be an abuser” ++

thanks guys. glad to hear about this from you

Don't think Jamie was the right person to speak on this. She didn't seem well informed. Understandable people wanted to avoid this, especially if they found the subject triggering. Just feel like if you're going to do an episode on a subject, it should be with someone who can speak on it. The fact that you both just assume the jurors broke their oath is pretty alarming, especially when most criticism of the social media following is the idea of vibes. Like, you guys just assume based on vibes too. And the example of Colleen Stan that Sarah gave was super disingenuous because as she said, that man was found guilty.

I haven't finished all of it yet but I am so glad to have this take on it all. I've found myself nodding and laughing along with so much of what you two have said! Thank you for giving such a thoughtful, nuanced, smart, and HUMAN view on the case. I wouldn't expect anything less! I believe YWA is one of the reasons why I was never on the witch burning train I feel like so many others jumped on so quickly. People are doing the same thing that they've done so many times before and yet they say it's "just Amber" that they would treat this way. I hope there's a reckoning in the future.

32 minutes in so far. I am loving it and was excited when this popped up because I haven’t been following the trial at all and was excited to have an explainer but I had to pause - you guys keep mentioning how you couldn’t avoid the trial. Sarah even just mentioned algorithms as if the algorithms made it unavoidable - but I think you guys are both being uncharacteristically myopic on what information people get on social media. I know this is a HUGE cultural event, but it was not hard for me or any of my close friends to avoid it. The same algorithms that put it in your face kept it out of mine.

FUCKIN FINALLY!!!!!!

Haven't had a chance to listen yet, but the caption saying "Do your bones hurt?" hits different when I'm recovering from an actual bruise on some of my bones.

I didn't really follow this, I read about the UK trial and the recent verdict. This is horrifying. Thank you for this, can't wait to discuss this with my husband (who I'm pretty sure was on his side😳). I guess I thought that the verdict was sort of a "tie"? But it's obvious the whole case was designed to publicly shame her.

Omg I have been WAITING FOR THIS FOR SO LONG!! 🥲

I yelled when I got the notification - so looking forward to hearing this 🥹

I’m so glad to see Michael’s article in here! Thank you for this!! ✨

Oh my god YES

Yes. I’ve wanted this for so long…🥹