Dune Club Session 1 Qs

This question is about YouTube and not Dune, so feel free to either not answer it or use it to break up the other questions: Is the YouTube membership to a channel thing they are rolling out MEANT to kill Patreon? I would assume most people can't do both. As a patron loyal to the content and not a company I give few shits and would be down for either, but I'm not sure both is sustainable--to fund or honestly even to manage another stream/ money-go-to-thing in my life. You've always been brave enough to give your honest opinions about YouTube, so can you give us your honest opinions about Patreon and which one you would ditch if it gets down to it? It doesn't have to be your final say, just where your head is at right now.

I'll post fewer than 15 times next Dune Club session. I'll dial it back. I promise. I was just so excited! :)

Why Paul didn't "seen" that Irulan is given a contraceptive to Chani?

Literally posting this AS the stream progresses, so I understand if you don't get to it. My only question in reading this relates to the conspiracy in the first part. Why is that of all the conspirators we are given the point of view of the Face Dancer? Of each of the conspirators, his POV is the only one we have the narrator's assurance for regarding his motivation. I see a good reason for us to wonder about Irulan, and in fact we know Irulan at least doesn't begin committed because of the reasons you name. I think it's odd that Edrick and the Reverend Mother's points of view are considered not important or obvious (in that order). Maybe it's just in me to expect the unexpected though. Like I wouldn't assume anything about anyone's motivations there.

Couldn't think of a question. Hi.

I don’t really have a question, more a comment: I love the tactile feel of the Dune Club stickers you used for the box packaging!

Do you think Paul is justified in everything that he's done? Or did he ever have a choice?

I like how Paul had a moment of self-doubt when he's in his bedroom with Chani. It shows that he's still human. Reminded me of Adrien Veit in Watchmen when he expressed self-doubt to Doc Manhattan at the end. What do you think?

I think she wants to wait to talk about the Tarot till later but isn't it that even ordinary people with their normal abilities could affect prescience in "bulk" if enough of them dabble in prediction.

We hear now that the presence of prescients can block vision of the future from other prescients. When Paul wonders "why this particular future was not shown to him" while talking to Princess Irulan, is it because of this effect? In other words she is "shielded" because of Edric and her involvement with him, and so Paul couldn't see the conversation as a possible future. Edric understands this effect, but does Paul? In the past he has also experienced events he didn't foresee as has his mother (in the first book). Could this be the cause in those cases? Do you think Frank Herbert planned this before he wrote "Dune Messiah" and just never mentioned it in "Dune", keeping it "up his sleeve" so to speak? Or did he develop the idea after "Dune" was written?

Hi Danika, sending you lots of love and support from Australia. What is the importance and role of the Dune Tarot? Why would it’s popularity obscure Paul’s oracular vision? Even Mohiam uses it but I’m not sure of Frank Herbert’s intention or its purpose in the narrative.

Interesting read so far. The face dancers seem weird and sneaky. Questions: 1. Why have we not heard of them before? Have they kept themselves secret from the others, guild, bene gesserit, mentats and the empire? 2. On page 46, when Paul remembers and old vision, what is the meaning of this vision? (It’s not the one he had of Chani in the caves?) And what does “Adan released him” mean?

With just these first chapters, I already see parallels between the story in the novel and current geo-political events. The line « If we go on this way, we’ll die of stupidity » seems especially relevant. It is very difficult to talk about politics in public, but do you think it becomes easier when it is done metaphorically through works of science-fiction like Dune?

Is the jihad war still going on

Why do the Tleilaxu have to leave a way out for the intended victims of their plotting? Is this required by an honor code or do they do it for another reason?

So I’m wondering if the kwisatz haderach the Tleilaxu tried to make was Count Fenring?

He also wants to be free of his identities as the messiah he wants to not be recognized in the marketplace. He doesn’t want to be an icon, god, or leader it seems like he just wants to disappear and find peace but he is tied to all these lives that depend on him. He isn’t the strong badass leader we want to see- who is confident, but he is conflicted and in pain. Why do you think Frank Herbert decided to portray Paul as the Messiah this way? At least so far in the story.

Paul debating the death of the ‘few’ verses the ‘many’ in his first chapter was interesting. He feels hemmed in by his love for Chani and the jihad visions. Is Frank Herbert saying love is a weakness or choosing to care for oneself or a loved one over the larger idea of the other is the ultimate path to destruction? It seems like anytime people truly love each other (duke Leto and lady Jessica) they are punished for it in the Dune world.

are the prayer cards already re-sold-out or are they in a different spot than the main comicbookgirl19 store?

I'll post a better question once I catch up on reading, but let's start with this. Now that I live in California, it has shown me exactly 2 temperatures: comfortable, and Arrakis. I hear LA was even more like Arrakis recently. How would you compare your experience in LA to that of Paul on Arrakis, and can you draw parallels between your situation and that of Paul at the beginning of Dune Messiah? EDIT: And now that I read the chapters: Paul and/or Irulan and/or Chani.

I think you may have a point Ox where his great power sort of inspires the conspiracy to spring into being as formidably as it is, where each faction of the imperium sends their best and brightest.

...and just generally wanting Irulan's development to be on a slower arc (to continue my last comment)

A couple questions: (1) on page 38 - talking about Fremen woman sharing their men. I remember during one of your discussions talking about men needing to get over this barrier and being chill about tits. I think that loosens the grip on jealousy, but it feels like Paul holds onto this idea of 'Mine' with Chani. Understandably he is above others and basically a God, but wouldn't he want to rid himself of that sense of enamor to bring himself closer to the man he daydreams about being? Or is the act of holding onto that sense of 'Mine' facilitating that? (2) I love the talking about Fremen superstitions with the evil smell (on page 40) and then this talk about the oracle not telling, but making the future (on 47). And then the axiom that states "To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers" - is that basically describing the paradox he finds himself into like Batman or Goku contend with -- the fact that they are so strong, stronger opponents come to challenge them just because they exist?

It may also be that Frank felt that Irulan being regent and refusing to kill Paul would be too similar, too soon after Fenring refusing to kill Paul at the end of the first book. Since the regency would happen almost immediately thereafter.

it's almost as if Face Dancers as 'sharp' as Scytale are in the 10,000 years of the Imperium so far, a relatively new occurrence, compared to clumsier ones that are just entertainer types, like just in the last couple hundred years or so, like how hunter-seekers are mentioned in the Encyclopedia as a relatively new development. So there could be a broad spectrum of 'products'.

when I mention Brian above, I am aware we're dealing with the original series here. I'm referring to how 'Paul of Dune' was handled etc just briefly. Sorry about that.

er, struck not stuck, sorry

I wasn't going to get into Scytale so fast but with Mario's comment above, just to stimulate dialogue, and maybe this question could be tabled until later in the book, but how rank-and-file is Scytale among Face Dancers. I mean it's more dramatic for him to be "just an average Face Dancer who happened to get a plum assignment" but obviously he's buff enough that he considers Edric's intellect to have 'severe limits'. Not just how average is Scytale among Face Dancers but how high ranking socially are the F.D.'s among the whole of Tleilaxu society. Remember just because you're on what looks like possibly a suicide mission going up against Paul doesn't mean you're necessarily low status. That's all too relevant today with people in terrorist organizations, where they're expendable but they're 'blessed'. Has Scytale been modified personally for his task, or are all the Face Dancers as a unit during this time period nearly-as-formidable as Scytale himself. They never stuck me as being particularly numerous.

concerning the Jihad and the brief description, I think Brian Herbert missed a golden opportunity for Irulan to actually be the regent of the Imperium for a full year in 10196 like the original appendix to the first book says. Or even just for twenty four hours with Mohiam basically screaming 'use your power, take out Paul now!' and Irulan refusing to do it repeatedly. I think the tension from that could be or have been much better. Or not just Mohiam saying that but the other players in the conspiracy. Sorry that's more of a comment than a question.

Why didn't sensors pick up on the poison that's preventing pregnancy?

Why would Frank Herbert shrink the description of the twelve year holy war, down to just a few lines in Messiah?

Yeah, what's up with that historian character? Was he really necessary to the storyline?