Dune Club Session 5 Questions 🐛

Hey Team, I just signed up to Patreon for this. <question> Hi CBGTeam, I hope everyone is okay and last week wasn't a serious emergency. Hey, could you please post some warning on your Youtube channel if we'll be skipping any more sessions? I'm in Australia and it's a 6am start for me. Okay... <question> On page 314, Jessica takes mental solace from the OC Bible "a time to keep and a time to cast away..." but just two pages earlier on 312, she talks about how the Manipulator of Religion seeded Arrakis with Messianic prophecies. I can't reconcile how she can be so pious and yet know all about the 'behind-the-curtain' exploitative nature of religion. Also, 'Mercury in Retrograde' is some raw mauvaise foi. </question></question>

Hey CB19! Dune is my favorite book and I am so happy you're doing this book club. I had a question about the Bene Gesserit vs the Kwisatz Haderach, are the Bene Gesserit able to unlock the genetic memories of only other Reverend Mothers, or female humanity as a whole? Whose memories are there on the male side for the Kwisatz Haderach to unlock? Also, as we talk about the jihad Paul anticipates being carried out in his name, I'm left wondering this: what will be the Guild's response to this holy war? How is it Paul's warriors get off planet? Can't the Guild shut it down? And

During Paul's awakening, he considers the path of becoming a Guildsman and recognizes his own strangeness that this is even a possible future for him. "I have another kind of sight. I see another kind of terrain: the available paths." I'm not sure I understand fully the distinction between Paul's "available paths" and how it differs from the Guild's "possible paths" when they are piloting Guild liners. Can you go into this in more depth?

Do you think it is an appropriate reflection to say that the future DUNE proposes is one where people don't rely on technology for progress/evolution, but instead drugs? In our timeline humans have put all of our eggs in the technology basket, but in DUNE it seems like everyone put theirs into drugs. Do you think that's a better solution for human evolution? Is a mix of the two more healthy?

On page 288 the Baron makes reference of white on the utter emptiness of black outside the viewport: "Quite suddenly, the Baron's mind could conceive of nothing more beautiful than that utter emptiness of black. Unless it were white on the black. Plated white on the black. Porcelain white." What's the white represent?

Teacher! Teacher! Dune is one of those books with a glossary at the end because of its use of made-up words, often inspired by other languages such as Arabic, Latin and French. What are your thoughts on the use of this vocabulary? How do they reflect the evolution of various human cultures and customs into the supposed distant future in which Dune is set? How diverse is the Imperium? There certainly seem to be some distinct cultures left, such as the Fremen, but otherwise only factions, subparts within a single cultural entity.

Not sure if I misunderstood since English is my second language. In the desert Paul mentions that they can't leave Arrakis since they are now are addicted to spice in some way? Wouldn't they know about spice being addictive of spice beforehand so why even consume it? And even if they are addicted to spice, wouldn't they just be able to import it from Arrakis anyway? And did the spice contribute to Paul's awakening? I might have misunderstood this whole part so I would super happy to get some clarity on this.

Was Paul's enlightenment directly tied to the death of his father, as if he wouldn't have been able to fully ascend while his father was still alive? The chapter intro quotes make me think this may be the case. "There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and oppression to develop psychic muscles." and "Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's incomplete and saying: "Now, it's complete because it's ended here."

Do you think it's regressive of Frank to have put hyper-competent women in servile positions? Why wouldn't the most powerful and enlightened and knowledgeable people want to lead humanity to a better future? I personally think it's because they want humanity to still have free will, but as we see in later books, when free will is taken away, humanity actually experiences a peace that lasts for a very long time. So, if free will equals death and horror, and no freedom equals prosperity and peace, isn't that the better option? What is it the BG really see in free will, I guess is my question.

Sorry, two parter: 1. I was thinking of the Worms equaling Moby Dick, and the hunt for whales equating to the hunt for spice. Do you think Herbert used inspiration from that novel, illustrating man's greed and hubris to try and control nature absolutely? 2. Also, why wasn't Paul seduced by Jessica's Voice? Was he trained to resist her's but not the Mother Bene Gesserit? thanks for all you do! :)

(Note: Since this week is cancelled, I'm posting this question for next week.) Is it possible that the fall of House Atreides is the direct result of Duke Leto's failure to marry Jessica? The marriage may have put the Duke in a politically weaker position, but the Emperor may have felt less threatened as a result, and he may have never set the trap for House Atreides on Arrakis.

DUNE CLUB SESSION 5 IS CANCELLED THIS SUNDAY DUE TO MEDICAL EMERGENCY. DUNE CLUB WILL RESUME NEXT SUNDAY.

Was there a great ethnic cleansing in the Dune universe? Where are the people of color?

Ok, I should have asked this back for week 1, but I'm just now getting the hang of how book club works, so here goes: If Paul had failed the gom jabbar test and been killed, what would have happened? Would Jessica have had Mohiam imprisoned and executed by Leto? Would Jessica be forced to help Mohiam escape? Would she have been unable to tell Leto what had happened, the way Paul couldn't discuss the test and what Mohiam had said about Leto? Would Leto & H. Atreides just kept moving forward with the move to Arrakis, or would they have rebelled against the emperor? It seems like all of the emperor's big plans to undermine the Atreides would have been severely jeopardized if the emperor's truthsayer had murdered Leto's son on the eve of the move, no? Plus, if word got around the empire about what had happened, it would generate even more sympathy for House Atreides and against House Corrino. And since Mohiam knew about the emperor's plans to eliminate Leto on Arrakis, giving Paul the gom jabbar test before getting to Arrakis seems kind of foolhardy. Did she & the emperor have a backup plan if Paul failed?

I see, in this trade paperback, there are three books, from which we're reading, but last night I was visiting the Easton Press, web site, and they had the complete collection of five hardcover books, for sale. Why are we stopping at three?

One more thing: on the "meta-subject" matter... Before I started into Chapter 1, I read the Afterward by Brian Herbert. I don't think I ever realized the impact of what this book had on the Herbert family - Frank probably walled himself away from his family in order to complete his masterpiece. You can see some of this reflected in the writing - the relationship between father and son. Lots of comparisons between Leto and Jessica vs. Frank and his second wife Beverly.

I know this is maybe a very large subject - Is it possible to highlight all the philosophical topics covered in Dune? From Zen to Existentialism, Frank Herbert seems to quote and borrow a lot from some philosophical masters. Loving this series and despite reading the book 20 years ago in my teens, I'm getting a lot out of Dune Club and following along each week.

Dis my favorite part. Paul finally gets his powers. From where do you think they originate? Seems like the trauma of losing his father tears away his conscious mind, exposing subconscious precognitive dreams. He has mentat logic and Bene Ges. organic analysis and a mind altering drug. He could be calculating everything that ever happens. BUT he dreamed the future. He knows about the Missionaria and knows Alia's name. TL:DR Psychic time travel or super logic? P.S. sorry for long questions.

Why does Paul say that he is not the Kwisatz Haderach but instead something unexpected when even his mother thinks that he is? At that moment in the tent it's not clear whether Paul has gained access past memories or maybe as he says it is something else like actual precognition?

I'm a little confused on how far and what side of the family Paul can view past memories. I understand Paul is able to view the past memories of both the males and females. However, does that mean he can only look back on his mother's lineage of males and females? So far the book only mentions visions from his mother's side males describing his grandfather being Harkonnen. Will we read about the Atreides lineage of memories?

Would you consider Dune more Fantasy or Science Fiction and apart from Dune do you like Fantasy or Science Fiction better? Thanks for making Dune Club it's awsome. Florian

The portents and predictions that the Missionary Protectiva set down on Arrakis that Paul seems to be fulfilling are uncanny. Doesn't this imply that the Bene Gesserit who slipped these predictions and signs into Arrakeen culture were able to actually see the future? Or were they just that good at predicting the future through means of planning? Like maybe they knew where their breeding program was ultimately going and foresaw all of these little factors as inevitable. Which do you think?

Who would you cast in the live-action dune movie or show, (whatever their going to do)? I'd prefer you choose people who are currently alive, but if have any interesting picks of those who are dead, go ahead. I’ve always thought that Jimmy Smits, (played Bail Organa in Star Wars films), would be good as Leto Atreides. And I would have thought Orson Wells would have been amazing as Baron Harkonnen.