Air India 787 Crash

Greg, I know this incident is a very sore subject for you, and not really the topic your prefer to cover on your channel, but I would like to hear your opinion on the finding in the preliminary report that the landing gear lever was in the down position. Your video pointed out that the angle of the gear trucks showed the gear retraction sequence had started, and I believe it was your conclusion that the sequence stopped due to the fuel cut off switches being placed in the cut off position, stopping engine power production, which caused the hydraulic pumps to stop, and the hydraulic system to loose pressure required to complete raising the gear. Does the preliminary report finding that the gear lever was in the down position change your conclusion regarding the gear retraction? I don't think there is any doubt regarding the cause of the crash, one of the pilots deliberately shutting off fuel to both engines.

Good video, Greg. Well worth the effort to put out. Did you focus on the gear truck tilt as a confirmation of engine power loss thus hydraulic system pressure loss, or as a possible indicator of systems control malfunction? I'm not sure if you were trying to suggest this gear malfunction could have been another product of a control system malfunction that affected engine fuel valve control.

I saw the video. Good and to the point. A question: are logs from plane computers uploaded to the black box?

Just watched the video. It's great!

Just a guess, in regards to using military grade fuel, would that cause duel engine failure? We know India/Pakistan had a military flare up recently. IF that airfield was used as a staging area for the IAF, and they were accidentally giving military JP 5, or whatever they use now, could that be the cause?

Ok, it's 91 to 9, the video will be up in a few mins.

Yes and please focus on debunking the garbage

Good, make the video. I am a pilot and have friends that are constantly doing anylisis on every plane crash who sometimes jump the gun and get it wrong. I think I know whaat the problem was, definitely the flaps, but it had to do with the hydraulic system also. The RAT should be a dead giveaway on that score, but the how and why will be interesting to discover. I'll be watching here, Good Luck !

I think all of us trust your assessment better than anything were seeing on the news grid. A simple video explaining what you think are obvious misinformed statements coming out the media would be helpful for all of interested in what was a viable root cause to the accident...it seems from the video it coukd have been a power issue.

I'll make a quick video. I'll debunk two of the rumors out there. First, the plane didn't crash because they took off with the flaps down. Second, the pilots did not forget to retract the gear and yes obviously I know the gear was down.

After reading the comments, I'd rather see you spend the time on another warbird* analysis. Because there is no one else who does that! You know, with performance calculations and such. If I want to see a reputable analysis of that crash, there are others who already do that, like Juan Browne/Blancolirio. ---- *) Doesn't have to be a warbird. How about a comparison of early passenger planes, DC-3/Ju52 era?

The airplane just came out of a C or D check. I'll bet that someone left cushions or something inside of the fuel tanks that caused a severe restriction in fuel flow preventing the engines from developing full power.

Why I voted No: Juan Browne does a great job with current and recent events. Unless he's missed something in his video; which won't show up until the media frenzy has settled and the first official reports have been published; your efforts would be duplication.

One of the things I value about Greg's presentations is his ability to explain what is known and what is not known, and why that makes a difference. Mis-information is different from dis-information. I love a good dialectic.

I think the line pilots with significant experience have insights that are valid enough. Greg isn't suggesting that the proposed video would come to a conclusion, and I'm sure he won't suggest he knows something he doesn't. One thing that seems pretty clear is that there was a loss of lift. Whether that resulted from a loss of power is another matter. In some form or fashion the airplane was on the back side of the power required curve. While it's true that flap and gear levers are designed using multiple methods as to not be confused with each other, it doesn't preclude a mental error - like thinking ahead to flap retraction, and that expectation bias overrides the aural cue of the gear being called out. I think it was Captain Steve who indicated that the 787 is so advanced as to disallow an improper configuration at a given airport, or at least trigger the mater caution at both stations. It also seems as though the ram air turbine had been activated either automatically or manually, and the gear while visible, may not have been fully extended. The flight path was straight, so asymmetric power of flap / leading edge devices seems unlikely. The FDRs will clear up a few things.

‘No from me’ vote, it feels too much like ambulance chasing, and I’m apprehensive that it would be any use in a sea of garbage slop videos that say absolutely nothing. Whatever your choice, I’m sure it’ll be high brow.

While I would be interested in your thoughts, there are so many videos right now that it would likely just get lost in the noise.

I voted yes, but reluctantly. I'd love to hear more from competent pilots who have 787 experience. Captain Steve thinks the co-pilot raised the flaps by mistake instead of the gear; another pilot said the two handles are not next to each other and are shaped differently, and Captain Steve admitted having no 787 experience. Juan Browne played some audio of the RAT deployed which sounds like the crash videos, which has a lot of implications. If you do make a video, I'd much rather it were in the Juan Browne style, with real facts rather than guesses about co-pilots.

There is a theory out there that the copilot retracted the flaps rather than retracting the landing gear. I would be surprised there would not be a configuration warning that would be produced by such an error

Greg please no. For so many reasons which as a fellow pilot you know we have to put up with from so called experts until the facts are known. We don’t want you to become a Captain Greeeeg!

Yes, make the video. If only to explain the possible causes , debunk the others and add the latest info. For me it has to do with a lack of power- hence the "Mayday" call. Retract the flaps? No; too many warnings go off (nothing heard on the R/T I think) and the levers are completely different in shape, position and operation.

More frequent videos would be great! Even if they're shorter.

I find it highly distasteful when monetized "expert" videos appear all over the web to cash in on every major disaster. That said, I would give an uneasy "Yes" because I'm interested to hear the opinion of someone who has demonstrated time and time again that he really is an expert.

Looks like I'm one of the very few "no" votes. Too many spouting nothing but guesses masked as knowledge and I think you could get thrown in with that lot. I'd wait till there's a preliminary cause given and then perhaps dive deep on that.

Too early. Wait until the investigation comes out. If a discussion gets started, it'll invite speculation and nobody needs to fuel that.

It would be interesting to hear your take. C.W. Lemoine (Mover) did a pretty good first anaysis

The Captain Steeeve channel made a video about this yesterday that seemed plausible to me, He thinks the co-pilot or non flying pilot accidentally retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear. UPDATE from Captain Steeeve: He now believes there was a dual engine failure because a better quality version of a witness video shows the Ram Air Turbine was deployed (visual and audio) shortly after the aircraft left the ground.

Sure, it's good business. It will get some clicks from people that might not normally see your stuff, which could lead to some new subscribers. Pesonally, I didn't pay as much attention as I probably should have, so I wouldn't mind seeing a take on it that has a good signal:noise ratio.

A guarded yes: if the misinformation is bad and annoying enough to compel you to speak, then you might do yourself and many a service, but it might invite a lot of nonsense to either refute or BAMO (ban and move on). More thankless work, in other words!

considering the time it would take the feds to figure out what happened Please address your comments. I agree with Flap up rather than gear up but I only flew all versions off 737 so time will tell the truth Go for it

When a pilot uses derate for take off power, you still need to use the v1 stop/go procedure, right? Coming back from Vietnam 56 years ago on a stretch 8 we rolled the length of the runway with nothing to spare. They don't do that any more, right?

Greg, perhaps make your points again about what to do, or not to do, in the first hour, day, and week, and about when and where to get the best info. Make a more timeless video based on this concrete example

Surely it'll be a classy and useful contribution to any conversation. As you have found with other videos, the information you present often finds a way to make it to other creator's channels, even without asking.

Greg you have an especially good way of laying out technical matters that could help bring some clarity to this tragedy. If nothing else it could underpin the importance of not speculating and waiting at least for an interim official report.

Make it Greg!

This is a slippery slope. I'd wait to see if you think it would be adding to the discussion (or clearing up clear misinformation). For the most part - I'd wait and see....

Make any video you like Greg, we will watch it.

I guess it’s where you are looking on the internet. I’m not seeing much misinformation. Most of what I’ve seen has been focusing on a double engine failure and deployment of the RAT. Also, there are valid news sources with eye witness accounts from inside the building that heard the engines loud and clear before impact.. A mayday call, and clearly rotating just prior to the overrun area kicking up plenty of dust. Landing gear not being retracted. It’s such a bizarre set of circumstances. Edit: I haven’t seen many try and throw the blame at Boeing yet, nor the crew.

I'm not going to vote either way, I don't mind, like the channel does tackle misinformation, but I also feel like it's out of scope, and out of scope is something that has recently irked me about Mentor Pilot/Mentor Now. This isn't why I watch the channel

Greg, your analysis is the only one that I would trust.

There is also Juan Browne (Blancolirio). He is a pro, much like CWL and Greg.

Greg, your calm, measured, rational insights are always appreciated. Love your work.

Greg, I think accidentally voted multiple times somehow which skewed the results

CW Lemoine aka Mover did the same. (A 787 pilot, F-16 & F/A-18 pilot) Check out his video. He’s absolutely NOT one to speculate and usually waits for the facts and investigations to come out.