Evil Neuroscience Part 1: Popping Whale Brains and Suffocating Dolphins (Premium E335)
Before marine mammal song CDs conquered mall kiosks and the slogan “Save the Whales” appeared on bumper stickers nationwide, one scientist became obsessed with the idea that dolphins might be our closest nonhuman intellectual peers. In part one of our two-part Evil Neuroscience series, Jack dives into the life and work of John C. Lilly: neurophysiologist, dolphin researcher, SETI-adjacent dreamer, and the man whose attempts to bridge the interspecies communication gap proved to be more horrifying than illuminating.
We follow Lilly from Biblical ideas about language and human supremacy to the Green Bank conference, where astronomers, NASA advisors, and future SETI legends formed the secretive “Order of the Dolphin.” Then we head to Marineland and Dolphin Rock, where Lilly’s research involved whale brains, suffocating dolphins, dolphin vocalization experiments, LSD, Margaret Howe’s infamous live-in language study with Peter the dolphin, and the tragic collapse of the project.
Along the way: Bob Dylan’s worst song, existential elk, horny dolphins, Cold War science funding, animal language research, and the birth of the New Age dolphin obsession. Next time, Jack unpacks how Lilly’s search for nonhuman intelligence turned inward through isolation tanks, psychedelics, MKULTRA-adjacent research, and the Earth Coincidence Control Office.
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Produced by Liv Agar & Corey Klotz. Theme by Nick Sena. Additional music by Pontus Berghe. Theme Vocals by THEY/LIVE (https://instagram.com/theyylivve / https://sptfy.com/QrDm). Cover Art by Pedro Correa: (https://pedrocorrea.com)
QAA was known as the QAnon Anonymous podcast.
Comments (71)
These Jack episodes are cracking me up
A sad story of emotional and sexual dolphin abuse. Great episode though :)
Jake, the guy from Jackass you’re thinking of is Lance Bangs
So glad you all did a deep dive on this story, haven’t laughed this hard at an episode in awhile. Instant classic. Though by the end it was also extremely sad, tragic and disturbing. Especially hearing the doomed dolphin at the end mimicking her speaking rhythm.. makes you glad for the modern ethics review process in research
This truly was evil. A coworker tried to tell me this story about LSD experiments on dolphins and a woman falling in love with her test subject. Apparently I was supposed to find this amusing. My coworker didn’t understand why I was so disturbed.
Why do they always give the fucking animals LSD?!
Well, Jack, after all these years, ya did it. I think this is the most bizarre story I have ever heard on this show.
To answer Jake's question, chimpanzees in the wild will mate with baboons and falconry birds that are imprinted on humans are only attracted to humans so breeding them requires a special falconry sex hat. Sirocco the kakapo is also imprinted on humans which is why he tried to shag Mark Carwardine. Also my family's male dog tries to hump out cats sometimes.
I thought I knew what the frog video he was referring to was but I've unfortunately just learned there's more than one
I believe the shark movie being half remembered may be Sous la Seine (Under Paris)
The saddest thing about Babe: Pig in the City is the use of real chimps owned by the woman who bred and sold Travis.
Thankfully 2/3 of them were sent to a sanctuary. One of them was sent to a roadside zoo pseudo-sanctuary but I'm unsure if he's still there
Love Jack, but this was one of the worst feeling episodes. Bottom 3 for sure, along with the Cuck movie night ep and the Hell Houses ep. Eurgh.
I cheered when I realized this episode will be about John Lilly. Reading his books sparked my interest with weird shit many years ago. He might be flawed but he is fascinating figure nevertheless. I guess it was his willingness to test his wildest ideas on himself that sets him apart from his contemporary weirdos.
Jack has such an interesting accent
I'm curious about if the next episode is gonna discuss Nim Chimpsky and Koko and Kanzi
“3 tickets to Jumbalay” is a classic grandma story.
Jack: I definitely watched Flipper.
Jake Rocketansky // Lights the Menorah 🎶🎶
Jack AND Jake. What could be better?
Going to need a pan galactic gargle baster to get through the next episode if there's any more animal abuse. Fascinating episode but that shit is harsh.
Jack teleported me back to my childhood with the Flipper theme song. Wow.
I think I may be in the minority but I just can't get into the more recent episodes. I want to like them. I love QAA, but the last couple months, more often than not, I lose interest and don't finish the eps. Could just be me I dunno. It does seem like a lot of commenters are enjoying the recent eps. I really do love the show and appreciate the work in general for whatever it's worth.
I like that Jake clarified it was the original Jumanji. As if your 100-something grandmother take take middle-aged men to see Kevin Hart’s jumanji
Weird. After listening to this podcast today, I heard about the dolphin jerk-off sessions again from two different, independent sources.
Everything referenced: Weezer ✔️ Ghostbusters ✔️ Teddy ✔️❤️❤️❤️ And Hitchhiker 's Guide as well as a bonus ! Yay!! 🙌 Certainly helped me through a troubling episode !
Tell me you didn’t watch Nick-at-Nite as a child without telling me you didn’t watch Nick-at-Nite.
Jake was driving me crazy this episode lmao he's so funny
There's an SNL sketch about talking to dolphins that's pretty close to what was described in the podcast, up to using silver bodypaint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zq5kWvp528
Jack: ..it’s also where patch adams was assaulting his patients… Julian: (quietly) um. Oh. It’s wrong to laugh about these things but this was a truly funny moment. 😂
Pretty disappointed in how this was treated. Bestiality isn’t wrong because it’s disgusting — it’s wrong because it’s animal abuse. I understand the silliness of the whole situation, but the story Jack described was psychological torture. Lilly essentially proved his theory that these animals have complex inner lives by driving them to suicide. The amount of air time given to Jake’s guffaws undermined the horror of the situation.
You guys really should do a bonus episode on John Prine and the anti establishment folk scene cause "Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Anymore" and more seriously "Sam Stone" are the greatest antiwar songs ever recorded
Big fan of Jack episodes ☆
I forget the name of the Netflix shark movie jake was talking about, but it was pretty sick so far as streaming original films go. Not Paris; like Carolina? Huge hurricane brings in flood waters and a meat truck crash leaves a tanker of blood in the water… pregnant girl about to birth in the mix, traumatized youth, etc… it was a fun movie particularly if you have a kid, my 9 year old and I had a good time with it
Can confirm Jake’s comment about Teddy- papillon are clingy animals, and will follow you everywhere. I’ve heard boys tend to be real Velcro dogs 🐕
Maybe she was huffing paint and that's why her mouth was silver. It was Florida after all
So much love for the podcast but I… really don’t like the Jack episodes. He’s really difficult to listen to. It makes me want to skip any one that they’re in. I hope that they move away from him as a regular contributor.
absolutely not, this esoteric zoology stuff brings a whole new angle to the pod that i like
The bit about attempts to teach cats and dogs to “speak” with buttons reminded me of our late queen of the “mad” button, Billi: https://youtu.be/0005sK02q2k
Ya big dork! Flipper ruled, it's Lassie with a dolphin.
Jack is so good, holy shit
I could have sworn they already did a John Lilly episode and forgot it. I know every other podcast has covered, but still. Maybe he came up in an Astral projection or telepathy context.
Right off the bat Jake confuses the names of Evil Dead and Army of Darkness. Completely UNLISTENABLE!
Bruce Campbell and the Necronomicon were in both though ?????
Jack supremacy!!!!
Jake: Thrash
I misread this at first
If you're interested in John C. Lilly's crazy story, can't recommand enough Atrocity Guide's youtube video about it
If you like Project Hail Mary and are curious about Weir's books- avoid. They start interesting, but drag too long. They don't have any real themes or ideas, the 'extra" bits that make a book more than the sum of its parts. You'll get about halfway through and realize it is just a series of events.
Fantastic synopsis! So true
I read the Jakeronomicon wrong and a bunch of skeletons showed up and threw dreidels at my house
Posadas was right
Having listened to the old Dollop episode about Lilly’s experiments, I had to really steel myself for this. What happened with Peter the dolphin is so upsetting to me. 😢
I was also familiar with this story through the Dollop. I considered skipping this one, but I'm glad I didn't
I’ve been loving how Jacked QAA has gotten.
This episode is dark as fuck.
Excruciating but essential listening☹️🥺
Ok the way it's written looked a lot like Bob Dylan's worst song was called existential elk. And I cannot accept a title so humbly majestic to be part of anyone's worst anything (here's a very Sunday morning vibe exploration of the existential elk theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mY_YUUdRBk )
Im not saying we are a hitchhikers household, but I cremated my husband with his og towel he took to fan events in the 80s
Serious question: Is this episode safe to listen to for someone hyper sensitive to the pain of animals and other non human creatures? 🫣
No. Totally No. Im 28 minutes in and might have to nope out.
Whalestep
I have a 3 hour train from Lisbon to Porto and a new Jack episode just dropped. Hell yeah
Never mad at a Jack episode.
The Jack animal science episodes are my favorites
Jack, you cant be talking about what Lilly did to these dolphins. Its too on the nose
Jack!!!
Such a good addition
Yall the best
Hell, yeah.
NEUROSCIENCE MENTIONED 🧠