Episode 273: The Tartarian Empire
According to the Tartarian Empire conspiracy theory there once existed a massive, advanced regime that stretched over much of the Asian continent. This Empire’s power was so great that they built structures all over the world, including in Africa, North America and South America. Buildings such as the White House in Washington D.C. and the Great Pyramids in Egypt were built by the great, globe spanning Tartarian empire. They were able to accomplish this in part thanks to advanced technology that is lost to time, like batteries powered by the Earth which distributed electricity wirelessly.
This theory has spawned a community of people who pour through old European maps and pictures of 19th century buildings in search of evidence for this lost empire, then post their findings on Reddit and Tik tok.
But was there really a lost empire called “Tartaria?” Or have conspiracy theorists on the internet misinterpreted an archaic European term for parts of Asia then proceeded to desperately search for evidence of a better world that was lost to time?
REFERENCES
Inside the ‘Tartarian Empire,’ the QAnon of Architecture
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-04-27/inside-architecture-s-wildest-conspiracy-theory
Shaoxin, Dong. "The Tartars in European Missionary Writings of the Seventeenth Century." In Foreign Devils and Philosophers, pp. 82-103. Brill, 2020.
Graff, Rebecca S. "Dream City, Plaster City: Worlds’ Fairs and the Gilding of American Material Culture." International Journal of Historical Archaeology 16 (2012): 696-716.
Greenhalgh, Paul. "Ephemeral Vistas: Great Exhibitions, Expositions Universelles and World’s Fairs, 1851–1939." (1989)
CIA Document: National Cultural Development Under Communism
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP78-02771R000200090002-6.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walhalla_(memorial)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmenhaus_(Burggarten)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Hall_Post_Office_and_Courthouse_(New_York_City)
The Singer Building
Comments (129)
Debunking the debunker here :p both cathedral and cathode ultimately come from ancient Greek, but yes they are unrelated. Cathedral = καθέδρα < (κατά) καθ- + ἕδρα (kathédra) meaning "at the table" and later meaning simple "chair" and later meaning an important "chair", like that of a professor or bishop. Later incorporated into Latin. Cathode is a much later, scientific loan through french from = κάθοδος< κατά (κάθ-) + ὁδός (káthodos) literally "down way" or "downward motion".
My theory on this conspiracy theory is that it's driven by Americans who cannot fathom that we have buildings from like 1000 year just standing around over here.
We have Tatars here in Finland
Well you asked for it Julian. This is definitely that.
It is close enough to that, Julian is outta here
Yep, Julian, Jake is right. This is that.
It’s pretty close to that.
Sorry Julian, Jake is right. this is that.
This is that def
This is that. For every reason Jake said. Sorry Julian, acknowledge the overwhelming feedback
Yo Guys, tha new art FUCKS Can't wait for the new name now!!
I think this may be the closest it's ever been to that, but this still just isn't quite that
The Seattle World’s Fair was in 1962. Does that mean the Space Needle is actually a Tartarian relic??
Looking at it right now and yep it’s definitely tartan
This eps auto q made me feel violent
Asbestos has been used since ancient times. But burning man is not like the world expos
This is that, totally with my man Jake’s analogy THIS time. Julian stop being a dick lol
Someone needs to make a Waldo book with no people or Waldos just to mess with these guys
NGL I'm kind of with Jake on this one. This is that
Really seems like you guys are close to cracking completely. Glad you could let off steam here
Just got to the guy talking about Cathedral being from "cathode" I'm so disappointed in human brains, god damn.
As an art historian this episode broke me
I want Godzilla to eat Burning Man …then that would be this
Gotta give the burning man world’s fair thing to jake. This IS indeed that
The most popular youtuber guy straight up sounds like Kevin Spacey. First thought was like oh he's finally given up hiding behind that House of Cards accent at last, lol.
Fun fact: asbestos fiber has been in use by humans since at least 3,000 BC - we have Egyptian mummies from that era which have asbestos fiber woven into their wrappings. The ancient Greeks (as attested by Herodotus) would weave burial shrouds from asbestos, so that the ash of the pyre wouldn't mix with the ashes of the body wrapped in the shroud. Roman nobility would have asbestos napkins made, which could be cleaned by throwing them into a fire and letting the food residue burn off. So yes, Julian, they did have asbestos back then. It's actually a naturally occurring resource, and asbestos miners have been dying of asbestosis and mesothelioma to procure it for the bourgeois class for thousands of years.
I have seen post about this theory on Facebook, the comments were wild.
I’m giving it to Jake! This is KINDA that bc BM started in SF and we do get their leftover ~monuments~ in our parks and public spaces, quite often!
AND I say this as a NON burner who nevertheless appreciates some of the hand-me-down art
This is NOT that! Down with Jake! All Hail Julian!
the recency of Tartaria is one of the funniest things, to me. in a couple years we're gonna get people believing in a globe spanning Phoenician empire that ended in 1996
I always feel challenged visiting places like r/tartaria because I can't tell if they're all just having a laugh. The Tartarian Cherry? Really folks?
This IS that
As a professor of architectural history, it is wholly unsurprising that I would never have heard about this smooth-brained subculture without your help. Thank you, QAA, for all the nightmares.
Tartaria still exists as long as we don’t let it out of our hearts
This one takes the cake as the dumbest conspiracy content you guys have ever covered. Flat earth makes so much more sense in comparison
I had the exact same thought while listening. Stupidest conspiracy theory in history, makes flat earth look like rigorous science.
Construction Architect student here: Jake is right. It is that.
I’m sorry Jake, but this is not that
Here to claim that this is, in fact, that. Also an anecdote- about a decade ago my very drunk friend misheard a girl thanking someone and angrily exclaimed “that b just called me Tar Tar!” and it became his drunk alter ego nickname. Between that and “Mud Flood,” this episode was viscerally triggering for me.
I agree with Jake, this IS that.
“Mogul/Mughal” is in fact derived from Mondol (via Persian). It’s still mostly an exonym.
That is, in fact, This.
entering this-is-not-that territory, but the idea of a cataclysmic event burying a prosperous society's structures underground basically overnight is a major plot point in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
The ‘86 L.A. Summer Olympics? Oh Jakey. I love you, but remind me to teach you Olympics Math. 😂
That was, indeed, that - I love Jake's enthusiasm and infectious humour, voice-acting, etc. Julian's always really hard on Jake! Travis is ever the grown-up. This is the only thing I pay for now, on the Interweb. Brilliant stuff.
Also this is like something that was pitched when they made idiocracy but the writers thought was too stupid for the film
The one British guy talking super low about buildings was incredible. For several seconds I thought they had contracted in Felix B to do an absurdly bad accent and I can’t believe they passed over without making fun of how he talks
This is not that
Now imagine the inbreds whining about Confederate statues because “that’s our history”. One of the same motives - ignore the primary sources and real history, don’t learn anything, just make up stories and bullshit each other about the stuff you can see without reading.
This is that
That *WAS* that! Jake made an entirely valid comparison with specific meaning! (Paul Greenhalgh would be disappointed by Burning Man, which DOES have similarities with the World's Fair.)
Woulnt chang it, but this is almost always that
That was that!
Wasn't Lenin himself a Volga-Tatar? That would make him a kind of Tatar Emperor 😆
He was part Kalmyk
This is not that for sure
This conspiracy really pisses me off lol. Are we really so poorly educated in our own history, that we’re willing to buy that idea that every modern city was just blundered upon (and that if we dig beneath the mud we’ll find massive skyscrapers?) Fomenkoism is all fun and games, but this narrative is so mindbendingly stupid that I really worry about where we’ll be 50 years from now. We are slowly turning into superstitious peasants, wandering the scary, mythic wastes of internet dross- developing weird, crazy explanations for things we are incapable of understanding. At least peasants had ample reason to develop mythic explanations for natural phenomena- we, sadly, are regressing even as we advance technologically.
Yeah, this is the end result of “we don’t need books, primary source material, historians or other experts, we have buildings and statues that we can look at!” The shitkicker inbreds who cry about confederate statues being taken down because “that’s our history” are the most vile racist iteration of this kind of thing.
There appears to be no limit to what alternate reality people will dream up to avoid confronting the fact that capitalism is driving our planet off a cliff and running the working class through a meatgrinder. Unionize. Build labor power! Build mutual aid in your community!
Nah. I think I'm just going to argue with weirdos on r/Tartaria who are trying to say the Empire State Building construction photos are fake (true story).
These Tartarian YouTuber's comments remind me of that old YouTube show Neature Walk: "You can tell what it is by the way ot looks"
That is not this. So, don’t do that if you want this. Tartarian doesn’t exist. So don’t do this, either. Ps: the auto Q dude sounds like AI.
That WAS that
Also, when I was a little kid I would do something kind of like this where if I came across an old, stone barn or farm wall I would imagine that it was the ruins of an elvish manor, or a faerie kingdom, but like....I grew a little older, and realized it was silly. To pursue this as a fully grown adult blows my mind.
I don't know why, but this one- this one broke me. Probably because I have a weird fascination with all of the wild scams that were popular around the turn of the century, and with the architecture of the time. It made me think of the Cardiff Giant. Just, wow, if only the believers knew.
For reasons I can’t disclose because I was on a mission for the CIA (😶), I haven’t listened to QAA in a month at least. I’m here to say two things….1. you guys create a LOT of content (awesome!) and 2. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This was so fanciful it got me thinking what conspiracy would I make up?
This is that
Yet another deep cut Ghostbusters reference by Jake in this one. The other guys will blow right past them, but I hear them, Jake. Every. Single. One.
This is NOT that 😜
I think in the encyclopedia source that mentioned moguls, that Julian says is a misspelling of mongols, is actually referring to the Mughal empire that was located in South Asia
I came to make sure some one else mentioned it. I used to get them confused. The Mughal empire is typically not covered in US schools.
This is that. Excited for the rebrand, this topic was a nice send-off.
This is kind of that but you definitely have to go there man!
This is this that is that! This is not this is not that!
Burning Man isn't the present day World Fair because the World Fair still exists, the next one is in Osaka Japan. The theme of the 2025 fair is "Designing Future Society for Our Lives". This is strongly not that, massive L for Jake.
These people's brains aren't just melted, they're completely liquefied. Maybe even vaporized. Also, the original sections of the Art Institute of Chicago, and the Museum of Science and Industry were constructed for the Columbian Exposition of 1893 and still exist today.
The concept of a big world government hiding the true history of the world is an anime plot line. Seriously. Whats next. A troupe of pirates lead by a straw hat elastoman?
This is not that.
Old school burner here and this is pretty much that.
Jake was right! This is that.
Fellas. I’m right here.
Really great ending song. Good vibes! Haven’t heard of this conspiracy theory in quite a while.
Justice for Jake! This was infact that
Naming different nations/people/countries different names than they call themselves has not been historically unusual and continues today. Just look at what we call countries in English and what they call themselves, then switch languages. Every language does it. A notable example is that the Greeks call themselves Hellenes, but we use the Latin term for them, Greeks. Some examples in history. Greeks called the Persians "Medes" based on the country Media which has previously ruled much of the Middle East. Crusaders and likewise all Europeans were simply called "Franks" by Middle-Easterners.
For a more modern example you can look at Canada. The world calls them Canadian but if you’re actually in Canada you’ll never see that word!
I believe "mogul" is derived from references of the Mughal Empire in the Indian Subcontinent.
Oops wrote my comment before seeing this! I thought the same
Dance for me Tartarian Women
The problem I have with the Tartaria theory that prevents me being at least a little bit sympathetic is how fundamentally uncurious it is. It seems this way therefore it is, and any argument that complicates this is a lie, and thus by extension all history is a lie. At least with Lemuria, Atlantis, etc there's worldbuilding and attempts to tie into actual history, which to me makes it all the more interesting to hear about. Where other pseudohistorys have mythology, when I look into Tartaria I just see a big blank hole of nothing. Just people pointing at history they didn't learn and baking out of thin air to fill in the blanks.
TFW “new population began”
I'm giving this one to Jake. This is near enough That.
“Why do many countries have roads made of tarmac? Even today! They all have these….paved, flat, roads.”
You did it. You found the world’s dumbest and least creative pill.
Technically I don't think a mainstream news organization or any sort of political figuring ever came out and denied that giants ever existed so...
Great background song before the Auto Q. Also This is kinda that
This huuurts... It would be so FUCKING easy to learn just a LITTLE about historical architecture and everything would be explained... Neoclassicism isn't that fucking complicated... 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Plus, in the 1700s Encyclopedia Brittanica entry, Moghuls was probably not referring to the Mongols, based on the geographic descriptions, but the Mughals, erstwhile conquerors of India who originated in the area of Afghanistan
Came to say the same thing
If you believe cities in old photos were empty, you must also think they were black and white and 2 dimensional?
Julian's bits about Italians reminding me of when I found in a graveyard in Bologna, the name: Guido Panini
The Adderall shortage isn’t funny … I thought this would be a place where I didn’t have to hear people talk shit about ADHD … guess I was wrong
qaa confirmed ADHDphobic. sad!
The Tartarian conspiracy theory strikes me as extra depressing because unlike alternate chronology or ancient aliens there is no path back to the good times. Even the Lemurians had their mystic schools and ancient masters. The whole drive of the Tartarians is their sense of loss. We can’t do this anymore. They can’t even imagine a government that would invest in public works or new buildings. Obviously, they are sublimating their climate anxiety and economic precarity so I feel bad even calling them stupid but where are there dreams?
Also, I was strongly reminded of Prester John. Everything has happened before.
Everyone search for the Stolen History message board! It both unhinged and 90% of the posts are effort posts!
This is great! I've lived in Ulaanbaatar for 10 years and actually know what they're talking about! 😄 Incidentally, in lots of Mongol texts there are references to "Tatars" but they're kind of non specific and generally refer to the bad guys in a given situation. For example, some early translations of the Secret History claim that it was the Tatar tribe that poisoned Chinggis Khaan's father Esuhei when they were returning from their journey to meet Borte. The tribe pretended to be offering hospitality, poisoned the hero Esuhei and enslaved his son Temuujin who would later become Chinggis. Later on, the Tatar tribe harry and attack the emergent Mongol force as it expands and in some accounts side with the villain Jamuqua against Chinggis. I'm not a scholar but Tatars do crop up all over the place as a kind of all powerful, but ultimately doomed, opposition to the ascendant Mongols. Anyway, I'd always assumed that Tatar was an actual place until it was destroyed by the Mongols.
Bit as far as this episode goes, this is not that.
This is one of the most arbitrary "theories" I've heard yet. What, literally, is the point and if all the people were wiped out by the mudslide, where the hell did we come from? The guy who can't figure out why there were no wires everywhere one hundred years ago nearly killed me.
Leave it to a bunch of dagos to come up with a new slur.
As someone who wrote a term paper on medieval accounts of the mongols way back in 2002, this one really tickles me. Next, they'll be saying that the "Muslims" misplaced the once great civilization of "Saracens". Also, This is totally that.
I get the impulse to think the past was better but we just have to accept that civilzation is just a bunch of messy bitches. Always have been, always will be.
My family always told me that they are proud descendants of Tatars and by that the actually ment Mongols that invaded our lands in 12th century because. In german Tatar doesn't mean specific turkish people but any people that came as conquerors from the east. They always spoke about tatarenflecken (mongol spot) that my acestors had as proof of this lineage. We made dna test recently and it was all bull or it was no longer traceable. I'm starting to believe this was part of some weird belief from 19th century. I will definitely listen to this episode to learn more about this idea, thank you
Also please do a podcast on Lemuria if you haven't already
I love Tartaria conspiracy theories! Easily one of the funniest and dumbest theories. It's basically the easiest way to tell if someone is a dumb rube.
The next QAA series has to be This Is Not That. Doesn't matter what the topic is. This must be its title.
This Tartarian mythos reminds me of the fake histories told by Nordic cryptofascists and Alexandre Dugan/Vladimir Putin. Scratch below the surface of most of these Tartarian believers and you'll find they believe they are descendants of these supposedly superior ancient people.
Burning Man is that. Jake 1, Julian 0.
Noo! Who the fuck is Richard Martini??
As Travis says, this was refreshingly old school QAA
This. Is. That.
This was not that
Vibes for my dnd setting
I coulda sworn QAA already did a Tartaria episode wtf
Mandela effect!
Fuck yes, I’m in about a hundred Tartaria Facebook groups and they are full of the stupidest people imaginable. I can’t wait to listen to this
lol same, hyped
This show rules