Patreon platform changes
I was going to wait until Friday to announce this, but I didn't want to overshadow the Status update, so I'm posting this today.
Patreon has given creators some bad news that affects everyone using their platform - creators and patrons.
You can read Patreon's announcement on it here.
TLDR
I'll put the TLDR here.
Don't use Patreon's app on any Apple device to sign up for creators; you may be billed 30% extra because of Apple, or the creator will have to pay Apple that 30% out of their pocket.
Creators using pay-per-creation or first-of-the-month billing are forced to change to a subscription model because of Patreon's deal with Apple, and now all of those creators - me including - must rethink our entire business models.
30% price increase on subscriptions made through Patreon's app from the Apple app store
Patreon sprung this news on us creators yesterday. We must adapt to the changes Apple is forcing on them because Patreon has an app on the Apple app store.
Apple wants 30% of every purchase made through the app, and Patreon isn't willing to remove the app from the app store and hasn't come up with an alternative solution, so the 30% must be paid somehow.
Creators are given two options: either pay for the 30% ourselves to Apple (a company that does nothing for creators and yet wants a third of the income), or raise prices by 30% for users buying through the Patreon app from Apple store, so that patrons pay for it.
Creators set their tiers to allow their businesses to run smoothly. We plan our months and expenses to keep our businesses afloat. Our tiers are adjusted accordingly, so most creators cannot pay those 30% to Apple and keep things as they were.
With that option, Patreon asks us creators to take a 30% pay decrease. Ask yourself if you would do that with your employer, and you'll get how we feel about it.
I won't pay for purchases made through the Apple app, so my tier prices will be 30% more expensive in the Patreon app from the Apple store. This will reflect badly on me, but that's my decision.
So, please do not buy subscriptions from me through the iOS Patreon app in the future. You will pay 30% extra and give it to a company not involved in my business.
The 30% price increase will affect new subscriptions made from the Patreon app on the Apple store. If you subscribe to me in any other way (Windows/Android/Web browser, etc.), pricing will remain unchanged.
According to Patreon, old subscriptions made through the Patreon app from the Apple store are grandfathered and should keep their same price.
The side-effects of this news
While the 30% cut to Apple is bad, the side effects for many creators are even worse.
Patreon is now removing its two original billing models, which many creators still rely on. We can no longer use pay-per-creation or first-of-the-month billing, which has always been available on Patreon. We are asked to change our business model because Apple does not allow payments to be processed in those two ways.
If you're subscribing to a pay-per-creation creator or any creator offering physical goods or merch, talk to them about how this will affect them and you. They got the short end of the stick with this news.
I've been operating my business on the first-of-the-month billing model for over six years, and now I'm being asked to change it. When subscription billing was enabled, I refused it and was even reassured by Patreon in e-mail conversations that this billing model wouldn't disappear —and now it's disappearing.
The side effects of this news are bigger than what Patreon wants to make it out to be.
Patreon gave me until November to switch billing models or until November 2025, but then I won't get any new subscribers through the Patreon app. I will keep my current system for longer than November this year, as three months is too short of notice for me to make the required changes, and I have a game to develop.
If you want to help creators and patrons affected by this, you can submit your feedback to Patreon here and spread the word. More voices being heard is always a good thing. Patreon has backtracked on big decisions in the past, and this one desperately needs to be reconsidered.
Thanks for reading,
Dr PinkCake
Comments (91)
It is crazy how many times apple has been allowed to destroy sites, companies, and apps based on their own greedy whims. I hate apple so much for all the bullshit they are allowed to get away with.
Yet another reason to hate apple. Like i needed any more.
It is a apple money grab plain and simple, i went to the local phone store thinking about upgrading from my X. i asked about this crap, i know the gal there she said it is a small issue to do but the Big wig's saw a way to make more$, as apple has always hated anything NON-apple on there phones or laptop's, pc's etc. She added that they will fix it but make us pay for it. Then started showing the newest and best phone I Need, Told her i think i will go look at the new Samsung i'll get back to you..
Just to be clear, as a filthy Mac user, the Patreon website will not have the upcharge even if I sub using a Mac?
Exactly. If you buy through the app the price hike will be roughly +43%. You can still use an iPhone or Mac as long as you buy through a browser.
I already sent feedback Doc. So if we do business on PC are we affected by the price hike?
The price hike does not affect any platform other than iOS—and it affects those who sign up after November using iOS platform-wide. Windows/Android users are safe for now. However, everyone is affected by the changes we creators need to make to our day-to-day operations to be able to run our pages and distribute our rewards. I have until November 2025, at the latest, to figure that out - and for Patreon to give us creators new tools that would work for us. At the moment, I'm considering using the entire grace period to keep things running as you're accustomed to as long as I can.
I subscribe thru my Windows browser but will send them a message all the same. I despise big tech companies that throw their weight around just to make things easier for themselves and screw the customer.
So basically, Patreon is telling its creators- it's life blood and sole reason for being, to just deal with it? The fuck?
I sent my opinion on this to Patreon, recommending that they reject Apple's demands and sacrifice the app. Hopefully many others will do so as well. The real problem I see with all this is not the Patreon app, but Apple's mandatory subscription policy that gets rid of pay-per-update/creation and pay-per-product for creators offering physical goods. I don't know how many patrons are steadfastly loyal to using the app, but the forced change in the billing model will adversely affect everyone, but especially those developers trying to get started and patrons who are less affluent. Apple can't force Patreon to accept its terms. Patreon could tell Apple no -- yet they didn't do that, which leads me to wonder if other games may be afoot. If Apple has the power to dictate billing models, it is reasonable to assume they would also be able to exercise some control over what content may be subscribed to, and thus published through Patreon. Who's to say where the boundaries will be drawn if Apple gets to draw them? Whether Patreon is making a deal with the devil for reasons we are not privy to, or whether they naively believe Apple's deal will be beneficial, I don't see any good coming of this. I think we will see a gradual decline among both developers and patrons. Some may find other avenues for their business, while some may close up shop entirely if their efforts are no longer financially viable. If you haven't yet made your opinion known to Patreon, I strongly encourage you to do so before it is too late!
typical apple. wants money for nothing sry DPC that's BS
Thanks for the heads up. I access through a browser, so I guess not personally affected, but that's a horrible business practice, and I can see why you're completely hacked off. I'll be submitting feedback as requested.
So Android uses are fine until he changes the plan right cool
What a clusterfuck jfc
I just submitted feedback and will be voting with my wallet. I hope there are other means to support. I already have both seasons of Being A Dik on Steam and basically subscribed for updates. You were literally my introduction to Patreon, and I don't even have an iOS device. If Patreon wants to crackdown and bend over to Apple's will at the expense of creators, I'm going to remind them where their revenue comes from: the creators and their patrons, not Apple.
Well if apple is going to do this then they need to make non apple store apps that are purchased easier to install and use on their devices if they are on Patreon. Since they are charging app store fees for Patreon purchases
I'm think I'm good cause I dont use the app, I use the website for this stuff and not surprised about Apple being greedy
Subscribestar should be a good alternative if patreon is getting too burdensome as a platform , anyhow sucks for everybody involved besides apple -_-
This is why i dont use Apple, never have and never will, but i will ride this storm out with you Dr Pink and everyone here, dont let this spoil the good community that has been built around, a amazing gaming experience.
I don't use any Apple devices (I even don't own a smartphone at all). But I get that this is a very bad news for all apple users. Money is the only language such companies understand. Don't pay them, don't buy from them. The only way that works and, of course, only if enough people are joining. @DPC: I hope you find a good solution for your business and I wish for you that you master this challenge as you mastered the ones in the past, too.
Frankly it doesn't bode well that Patreon just role over this easily. Really hope they backtrack, because it is not a good look. They have an easy way around this, drop apple, drop app based subscription, do a decent web page that works on mobile.
Well, just deleted Patreon app from my phone and I guess next upgrade I will look hard at another device. Didn't care for Android the one time I tried it and don't particularly want to support Google either.
Money grabbing massive corporations taking more! Apple should be boycott by Patreon and the masses, Apple don't use Patreon, I'm sure Patreon don't need Apple
Thank god i don't own an iphone. Apple can go fuck themselves
Feedback submitted, hoping this adds to more and more voices. We don't deserve this and you don't deserve this (no great creator does). As always, good to have you DPC and thank you!
If you registered on a PC, it is a problem to use the application.
Every corporation is out for money but Apple is the worst,
I really hate apple
I don't use any apple products at all. never liked them and the company keeps give more and more reasons to dislike them.
My issue with this is most of the things that Apple does, are usually followed by something similar or equivalent by Google. At this point, guys at Google will be watching closely and if they see that Apple is making money out of this, they will do it to Android users too. I really hope that day will not come.
I understand why the 30% is bad. But what's wrong with subscription billing? You'll get the same amount of money, just not all at once on the 1st of the month. Or am I missing something?
Many creators, like me, space out content evenly throughout the month. Having a month-to-month basis makes it easy to plan rewards fairly for all patrons. The new subscription model will be unfair to some patrons and beneficial to others, depending on the timing of their pledge. This creates a situation where the creator must now plan and distribute content more evenly throughout the month so as not to favor early/late pledgers, which causes more stress. Changing billing models also raises issues regarding economy and bookkeeping. Keeping one day of the month as payday instead of every day of the month is a big difference. Patreon is supposed to make life easier for creators, and this is the opposite of that. Creators who need to know the duration of someone's pledge now have to check the specific range of the pledge instead of instantly knowing they're pledged for the current month when granting rewards. Patreon currently lacks the tools to handle this. These are some of the issues with switching billing plans, which are even more severe for pay-per-creation billing as they remove the flexibility of when to release Patreon content.
Apple is top 3 worst companies on the planet. They have consistently chose the corporate greed option for every business decision they have ever done. Nothing else gets factored into their decisions other then which option makes them more money. Stopped using apple products a long time ago, never regretted it.
Isn't it with every company? The bigger the more obvious it gets. Shareholders must be happy everything in Excel regarding that must be in green and it's all good nothing else matters
Thanks for the info DPC. I'm not on Apple but I think it'll happen for other platforms at one point, we'll see. It's ridiculous anyway but that's just huge companies for you. They provide pretty much nothing yet as a middleman they want more money, more power and more influence over everyone's life. Forcing someone to change their business model and somebody else to change the way they're buying products/services, we're getting really close to Orwell. I'll give feedback
Is there a preferred alternative platform? I feel Patreon should be punished for this decision - best way to vote is with wallets.
SubscribeStar and Itch as far as I'm aware but as someone said it forces the creator the change a lot of things and thanks to Patreon everything is in one place. Apple should be punished so you can still use Patreon and not their app via Apple beside who knows other platforms app stores and so on will be probably follow eventually. Sad but true
As a result of the Epic lawsuit, I believe Patreon has the ability to enable creators to point to other payment methods through the app. This situation helps regulators prove consumer harm, and should result in Apple backtracking in the future. App Store pricing has been an ongoing legal battle for years.
Hope it's the same for users/supporters. Still legal battles might go one way or the other and take years. One other thing as a Samsung user I'm wondering if payment method almost doesn't matter as long as it's via Apple store (and therefore app made for Apple environment) they'll still have a way to charge what they want
Reading the announcement and the way they have it set up is just greed pure and simple. The way crApple wants it set up, especially with the payment methods, is just pure and simply ridiculous. No more monthly billing, just a straight up .. well sign up for a year, not the say one month, to see if it is worth it for you. What happens to the Patreon and their money that has something happen and needs to cancel the membership. Or for those to sell items they create, yeah "in order to make this one purchase you must sign up for this subscription for this much, in order to make your purchase." Isn't that kind of like going to the local supermarket, and being told to buy a Pumpkin Pie, you have to sign up and pay, even though you only buy the pie once a year?........... The 30 percent, well Apple will manage that, and raise the price on their end that much..... and in 2 years it will be 50%, 4 years 75%, 6 years, wow they double the price for the subscription, and wow wait you want to download from this Creator, you have to pay an additional fee of 2.99 for the download now. Worst case scenario, yet I can see them doing that.
100% agree. We can safely assume other companies will follow at one point. That's why I'm staying as far away from Apple as possible anyway. Devices are mostly overrated and the company itself well...
Let's kick Elon Musk's ass!! 🤬
😂😂
I got out of the apple game years ago due to them controlling what i could and couldn't have on my personal phone, i really dont see the lore to apple, what's the difference between 1st of the month and subscription billing?
I didn't get it, too. DPC answered it some posts below (answer to ilPazzo)
I use an iPhone and when I learned of this, I deleted the Patreon app off of my phone. It's theft, plain and simple.
I think you, like others I follow here, should change to other platforms. I also think. Whats next? Some others are kicked out because of content. Like Lust&Passion. Some are several places. Some have theire own website with some kind of payment or registration due to payment. I think that this new apple/patreon is bad and dirty. Creators are not big busineses with a lot of money. Find a way outside patreon and we will follow!
Apple's Tim Cook told me.
I wouldn't mind paying 30% more if the profit went to the creators, but for it to go to the company squeezing the life out of creators, that isn't happening. Support the creator, not the dictator!
I did my part and sent some feedback. Apple is acting like a mob boss asking for protection money. That's why I decided to stay out of their ecosystem back in the day. I will continue to support you one way or the other, be it on Patreon or somewhere else.
And this is why "apps" practically just wrapping a web interface are just plain bad. step 1) offer an "app" and advertise for it step 2) drop website support step 3) turn on the thumb screws on the app and profit!
is the simple solution for Patreon just not to be on the app store? plenty of other ways to access it these days and the best way for the likes of Apple to realise they don't have a monopoly.
You're right but I think at this point Patreon just follow Apple cuz of the numbers of Apple users or they thinks (maybe have some data for it) it won't affect their bussines much. The best way is vote with your wallet always and just not use Patreon App on Apple
It's always Apple.
For anyone who still isn't convinced that Apple is shit company, and still drinks the apple kool-aid. Hopefully this might be a signal proving the desperate and downhill trajectory the apple is taking.
Dr Pinkcake. How about you create your own website with its own payment so you can cut out all middlemen inclusing patreon. All donations will be yours. I will switch in a heartbeat. Dont forget that Patreon is actually not to be trusted and a backup payment is always a good thing. Please do it
Yeah Patreon is well known and wide spread platform. Independent platform would take years to gain traction and reputability. Other idea is to ditch Patreon for other existing platform but it might be that Apple is applying the same changes for every subscription platform so the only way is to stop using Apple apps. Still doesn't change anything for creators and those changes are the worst as far as I understand. But no middleman is always the best solution
Apple is applying to Patreon what it previously applied to Epic Games, it is such an ambitious and controlling platform that it bothers with its decisions. All our support Pink, we hope that the change in the billing model is reversed, Patreon must support its creators, They are what gives life to the platform.
Just letting you know, I just finished writing to Patreon opposing the changes. Fingers crossed they listen.
Me too
android ftw :)
Was thinking of buying an Apple IPhone. Changed my mind... No Apple devices for me. 30% transaction fee is scandalous. This will kill small businesses and certainly won't encourage innovation. Long term this will badly damage Apple as a viable platform.
They don't care about small business or innovation. Long term they'll sell you what they create for big money sos they can put charges on it and control what you're doing with the product you bought from them. They want to control every part of the chain, as long as their shareholders are happy it means they're doing good.
Good thing I don't use Apple. All Android, and I have my trusty laptop. What's going to bother me is the change in the billing models. I'll keep an eye on that and see how it goes from here. Edited Nvm, I'm good. My pledges are on the first anyway. Good thing I always wait until the first of every month before pledging (think of it as a Patreon's Bill Day)...
I'm on a laptop too but I'll keep close eye on PayPal (who knows what they'll come up with)
Fuck apple!
My fear is that it will only be so long before google does the same. Go through browser and don't give any of them money they didn't help earn.
Android allows you to "side-load" apps, so even if the app weren't available on the Google Play store, we'd be able to get it, have it updated, and then be free of any anti-competitive nonsense.
I never use Apple, but i will write to patreon.
That's not the only problem with apple, being a dev myself I know full well that even making updates with apple is a hassle these days. One of the reasons many devs simply don't bother unless they have to. One hope is that EU iHad enough of their antics, and have warned them about this behavior. Needless to say, I'm supporting creators through the website directly.
That is the strange thing here, none of the content goes through Apple, the app gets its data from the Patreon servers, the games/projects come from Patreon servers, and most of those aren't even going to work on Apple devices. It's just the payment processing that is basically stealing 30%. Would you be willing to pay by card in ANY store if it makes the price go up by 30%? Patreon should have told Apple that since so few projects are even going to work on Apple devices, that the Apple version of the Patreon app will just have purchases turned off, so the app would then be free, but subscriptions would have to be done off the Apple store(which does nothing, no one looks to an app store to DISCOVER Patreon, we all know what it is). What will be next, that projects that Apple doesn't approve of can't get updates via the app(which might then make Patreon clamp down on content even more than it has already been doing)?
Yet another reason for me to never touch an apple devices again, not that I really needed another reason in the 1st place.
Im an android user, so the whole iphone issue dosent affect me, and even if i did, i dont use my phone for patreon, but my computer...............but im going ahead and saying this will be the death of patreon, agreeing to iphones demands.. at least that is my prediction.
Why does Apple ruin everything? This is why I am an Android person
Yet another good reason not to use Apple products for ANYTHING. To be honest, I always subscribe via the web page on my computers ANYWAY, then I'll just use the app on my phone(Samsung) to get updates when I'm not at home.
It was inevitable as this is what all app creators pay to have their app listed in the store if they are not a free app! I know several developers who no longer develop their apps for apple anymore because of this. They earn far more than they lost by ditching apple.
It depends on an app and what market/end user you're targeting
Everyone get shouting about this. Let’s make one hell of a noise about it. It’s not like apple needs any more money.
Apple is desperate to have growth on their books for their investor meeting, or else investors will sell and their stock will tank. So instead of creating a new and innovative product, they decided to milk everything they can. Appreciate the heads up DPC. I have no problem giving money to a content creator whose product I enjoy like yourself, but I despise giving it to a corporate stooge that does nothing like Apple has decided to be.
Exactly
Glad I don't support any apple products, but the price thing does suck.
Sorry to hear doc. I knew I hated Apple for a reason!
Crapple gonna crap :(
Even tho its shit its not your fault and I will be keeping my subscription just done it through the browser with my creditcard so it shouldnt be a big deal
Brothers unite!
This is purely daylight robbery of a creator's work.
This isn't capitalism, it's just stealing. Patreon via app doesn't really provide the content as much as a way to keep up on projects we donate to and follow, so subscribing via the app, it's just Apple taking money from a secondary store. Remember how the EU had gone after Apple for this crap where Apple wanted to block other "app stores", then were forced to allow them, but then, Apple changed its fee structure to take money ANYWAY? This is entirely the same thing, except that most of the projects don't make a phone/tablet version of their app, so Apple is stealing money for apps that aren't even running on Apple products. The EU and every regulatory body should hit Apple with huge fines for this anti-competitive behavior.
And this is why, people. Samsung Galaxy is better than fruits
I have been a android guy from the start. always hated how restricted iPhones are!
Wow, what cooperate greed...
100%, were subscribed to a content creator and they want to charge 30% to chime in on a successful creator, absolute greed!