What do you think of this video

someone made a very annoying argument in the comments, under a reply: "this is because incels’ problem is fundamentally born of mental illness, not sexism" what i find weird is that women literally deal with the same mental health issues while also being targets of incels' misogyny, so being told "it's the depression not the sexism" is just strange. to paraphrase a reply i made, yes untreated depression can lead you into dark places, but recruiters are building on biases and privilege that already exists, not conjuring it from the depression itself

Its an ok vid but not great

YES!! More of this please. Deep cut, but I found your video about Jordan Peterson's take on Yumi Nu's cover shoot very powerful, when you pointed out some people actually enjoy having sex with people who look like her and want to do that. Although I workout daily, I'm extremely curvy and have gotten a lot of shit for that from trolling men at the gym for not having a different body type. When I watched your video and heard you say that, I was like "Fuck yeah! Some people prefer having sex with curvy people, and that's fine, and we all have our own personal tastes so screw them!" I've actually gone back to that video more than once when I needed an inner pep talk. So, I say, YES BIG JOEL, Please keep on highlighting the fact that Different People are attracted to different things and (to quote Big Joe) THAT's FINE. :) <3

I agree with many of these points but I feel necessary to add a few points, 1) people find different things attractive. As an overweight woman I have never had difficulty finding people who are sexually attracted to me. You just can't assume everyone will be. 2) People do chose who to date and form relationships with based on personality. When I see two attractive people dating I still assume they like each other, until proven otherwise. I've dated attractive people but been turned off by personality. 3) Dating is just hard, especially in this modern day. Dating apps do not prioritize happiness but time spent on app.

There was another tweet in response to this one that makes the point that some people just find fat men attractive. They don’t find them attractive in spite of their fatness but because of it. Like, it’s not impossible for women to just love a fat guy and his body.

I say go ahead a post it. It articulates a lot of similar feelings I have with these types of statements like I get what they’re trying to say but 1. Looks don’t matter isn’t true and 2. It more or less secedes that perceived ‘attractiveness’ is totally one size fits all and objectively agreed upon which is also not true. But those are points that would get argued from different sides and just kind of get lost in the shuffle.

Point 1: eh… this is a bit weak. All it would take is a couple words of clarification on the tweet, focusing it away from fat people in general and just at incels (“obviously beauty standards have a real influence on dating, but when incels think…”) for that point to get absolutely obliterated, and I personally read that specificity into the original tweet anyway. I never read this as denying the influence of beauty standards on dating, just that generally peoples personality is more important than incels give it credit for, which I think is undeniably true. Point 2: why do our normal person opinions suddenly have a responsibility to conform/appeal to the black pill world view? It’s my honest opinion that how cool a person you are actually does matter more than your attractiveness when dating, and just because incels don’t agree, doesn’t mean we should hide that truth. Point 3: fully agree. There is definitely a double standard here. Go off king.

I enjoyed this video, but I found the first two claims a bit confusing on my first watch. It was definitely interesting enough to watch again, but my first time through, I found myself struggling to connect your reasoning about fatphobia and incel logic to a position that the commenter might actually hold, since as you acknowledged, their comment does address a real and common incel attitude. Ultimately I understood and agreed with your points, but until it occurred to me that the commenter was being weird by treating a video of a couple dancing as some big lesson for incels, I felt like you were saying a lot about a pretty innocuous tweet, and I didn't really get why you were talking about it until I thought about your points as "unpacking" that weirdness.

Hi apologies for the long response! Interesting points but I think you’re thinking/speaking too broadly and being a little unfair on OP as a result? This tweet is responding to a specific group (incels) and how a specific video debunks their specific world view (this being: “it is impossible for a man who is not a chad to date a conventionally attractive woman”). I don’t think OP is saying “if you (a fat guy) can’t get a date *generally* this is because of your bad personality” they are saying “if you are an INCEL” (IE: if you are part of a self-identifying misogynist hate group who is obsessed with muscles and chad skulls) “Your personality is the problem not your looks”. The overweight man in the video is the kind of man incels themselves mark as unable to access “attractive” women — the tweet is highlighting that this video challenges Incel logic. I’d also challenge your statement that incels want women to care less about looks. I don’t think this is true. Nihilism is a hallmark of incel logic — it is self loathing and hateful. Incels do not call for a world which is kinder and less shallow — they merely resent their lack of access to the upper echelons of this cruel, shallow world. Incels approach looks as if it were some kind of caste system — the image you showed in the video is evidence of this. Their rage comes from the fact that they see female “threes” who are able to date male “fives”, leaving only “ones” behind for male “threes” etc. Incels don’t want women to care less about looks, they want women to join them in obsessively categorising and cataloging looks and to date appropriate men, so that men can have an appropriate access to sex. They see women as sexual gatekeepers who ought to be distributed to them like a state ration. There’s a point to be made here but I think you can find better examples of women feeding into this sort of logic. There’s a really good chapter in ‘Get Rich or Lie Trying’ by Symeon Brown where he discusses the toxicity of women influencers who engage in this type of labelling of men as ‘not worth shit’ etc. Though more focussing on their economic status than their looks.

At first I was like “huh?“ then i was like “oh!” then I was like “yeah”.

personally I do think that if an 'attractive' or indeed any person is in a relationship, then they're probably a nice(ish) person. this isn't just something i think about ugly people

I fucking love any incel discourse, I think incels are hilarious. You need more umbrellas tho.

Off to Little Joel you go

This is great! I can't remember if it was a tweet or a video or what but you were the first person I heard say that the whole "just take a shower" rhetoric actually gives in to the idea that being desired in the sexual marketplace is the solution to incels' problems. Attraction is a complicated thing - people couple up for all kinds of reasons - but we shouldn't deny that certain people will have an easier time doing that.

post it

I agree that you should post it. I think you make great points.

I think its a good video to release but I also feel like there's more here. I personally feel slightly differently from you but I think its a valuable perspective to put out. As a fat, I do agree its a somewhat fat phobic tweet and while I'm not sure its DENYING reality its a dramatic oversimplification. I think the angle that could be more interesting to add is to take it up a level and examine how this pattern occurs in this kind of discourse in general. People have this tendency to respond to lack of nuance with more lack of nuance. Incels have this ridiculously reductive and simplistic and false view of the world and its like some people's instincts are to counter with with the same level of nuance but just the opposite view. I feel like there's some interesting factors to look at there as to why this instinct happens

I like this one a lot. One of those vids that just makes you sit and ponder for a while on the nature of life, love, and discourse. A certified classic

You make good points. 👍

Release, we have to deal with the world as it is not as how we wish it to be

I think you should release it, your second reason in particular is a good point to bring attention to because I think there’s a lot of engagement bait on Twitter like that making people feel bad about themselves and it’s a real problem