Radio War Nerd EP #366 — Seymour Hersh on US Bombing Nord Stream Pipelines
Guest: Seymour Hersh
Recorded: February 11, 2023
We talk to legendary Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Seymour Hersh about his latest bombshell scoop: the United States, on President Biden's orders, blew up the Nord Stream pipelines that were foundational to Germany's export economy until last year.
-Read Seymour Hersh's article, "How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"
Other articles mentioned:
-"HUGE C.I.A. OPERATION REPORTED IN U.S. AGAINST ANTIWAR FORCES, OTHER DISSIDENTS IN NIXON YEARS", Hersh, New York Times
-"Torture at Abu Ghraib," Hersh, New Yorker
-"The Killing of Osama Bin Laden," Hersh, LRB
-"Seymour Hersh and the Dangers of Corporate Muckraking," Mark Ames, Pando
-"LAPDOGS, REDUX: HOW THE PRESS TRIED TO DISCREDIT SEYMOUR HERSH’S BOMBSHELL REPORTING ON CIA DOMESTIC SPYING," Ames, Pando/Real News
Total time: 54:35
Comments (99)
Hey, Hersh references a documentary that he’s participating in, at the beginning of the interview. I’ve poked around online and can’t find any recent docs with him in it and he’s got commenting disabled on his Substack. Do you guys know if/when that doc’s gonna be released?
I’ve listened to this a half-dozen times now. It’s one of the best interviews I’ve ever heard. Everything about it is exceptional. Hersh’s “Are you listening to me? They KNOW what happened.” section stops me in my tracks every time.
Excellent interview
Just in -- https://www.revolver.news/2023/03/desperate-ray-epps-enlists-notorious-dem-clinton-operatives-to-threaten-tucker-and-revolver-news-for-j6-reporting/ -- March 31, 2023
NYT: "Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say" Mar 7, 2023 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html
smdh
What a get!
you idiots believe any tall tale as long as its anti american. seymore hersh is a hack. a fabulist. i feel bad for you morons
What's the tall tale here? That America, the only country with an incentive to secretly blow up the Nordstream pipelines, secretly blew up the Nordstream pipelines? Wow, what an unbelievable story. Good thing you're here to call Sy Hersh out on his bullshit. If people like you didn't push back on these stories, then who knows what terrible consequences the United States would face as a consequence of such lies. Instead of nothing happening, nothing might happen instead.
Did I listen to the same interview that the people complaining listened to? Hersh specifically said several times that the story _isn’t hard to understand_ and stands on its own. He refused to speculate or delve into psychoanalysis, and I think that’s to be commended. On the other hand, perhaps it’s a good sign it was so polarizing. Well done and well earned, you guys! You should be proud.
More like: Seymour Harsh. That's a good interview to catch new viewers, good idea making it freen on YouTube.
What a guy. Thanks Mark for the interview. Like you said, not easy
Way more crybaby bitches in the comments than I thought there’d be. People need to fucking relax
It was part of the Chicago Humanities Festival. I don't think it's been posted online.
Amazing, which event was this?
Q
Mark - he's not that scary! I briefly met Hersch last year at an event in Chicago where he was speaking about his career and memoir. He let slip his thoughts about the Ukraine war (~"Russia is not going to lose”). I asked a question at the Q&A at the end about what smaller blogs/journals/newspapers he reads since we all don't have firsthand sources. He mostly talked around the question with a long winded answer that mentioned the NYT and LRB. So like a true amateur journalist I walked up to him after the event and dogged him again for an answer. He was funny and intense and circuitous but quite nice in humoring a spectator like myself. Once I mentioned nakedcapitalism.com, he agreed he read that as well as The Intercept and Aaron Mate. I still don’t feel like I got much of an answer out of him though...
Just wanna shout out nakedcapitalism. Yves and Lambert and the rest are amazing. You could arguably say they are too pro Russia, but whatever man the discussion and analysis there is top notch.
Amazing interview. One thing about the article I’d still like to know: What’s up with the ‘covertness’ of this operation? It was to be covert, then it wasn’t because they had already kind of announced it. Then they were going to have the timer set to two days(!) after Baltops, not very covert. And in the end they picked detonators which could be fired at will (more covert).
It only has to be 'covert' enough to avoid anyone being legally culpable, if that. Nobody could stop the U.S. from doing it, and nobody can do much to punish the U.S. for it, so any attempt at secrecy seems like it's just to help the German regime save face.
Any update on Germany population reaction to US act of war/terrorism against Germany?
55% of Germans want a negotiated settlement... Dec 2022 - https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/poll-large-majority-of-germans-want-negotiations-between-ukraine-and-russia-now/ 46% to 43% Germans want to send tanks Jan 2023 - https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/europe/germany-mood-leopard-ukraine-intl/index.html
Interesting. Nowhere does Ames talk about Sy being an initial sucker for the Seth Rich conspiracy theory. Nowhere does he discuss Sy, or himself, almost certainly being wrong on Skripal. Here's Jeff St. Clair last Friday: https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/10/roaming-charges-81/
Seth rich conspiracy theory? Lol. The Russian hacking has been debunked. Completely possibly his rich story was true. Skripal? I’d read Craig Murray on that.
Man he really doesn’t like you guys. He was so nice to Jeremy scahill a couple years ago. And to Aaron mate. Also wtf is with his “idk why presidents start wars, I think it helps their ratings”. The greatest investigative journalist ever doesn’t understand economics or imperialism? Unbelievable.
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but nobody in their own head acts according to the dictates of 'imperialism' or 'economics.' Those are academic concepts which don't offer any insight into individuals' psychology. They're not particularly useful except as propaganda talking points. Nobody thinks of themselves as an imperialist, just like nobody thinks of themselves as evil. Hersh did actually explain the reasoning behind why they blew up the pipeline. He just can't tell anyone what's going on inside these people's heads because that's impossible for anyone to know. Probably even they don't fully understand what they're doing or why, even if they claim they do. Dolan has talked about how he gets hung up on the question of consciousness, and the whole reason it's a subject that invites speculation is because there are no real answers to be had. You can either obsess over it, or you can just ignore it altogether.
Great interview and it showed he was not easy to interview. But the show provided some nice backgrounds. While still letting the article stand on its own.
Great interview - one unsolicited broadcasting note mark. Punctuating every sentence from your guest with an affirmative mutter , right… ya, is a bit excessive.
I am a geriatric trailblazer of an investigative journalist known for the powerful truths I tell. Now, on death’s doorstep, I have the power to avert WWIII by naming and shaming all of the malign actors I can, to stop nuclear armageddon. Nothing is more important than stopping the reckless drumbeat of war and malign actions of those who desire it, but doing my Senior Journo’s duty of Protecting the Source(s).
Well, for one thing, if "malign actors" were hellbent on causing "nuclear armageddon," they certainly wouldn't hesitate to silence someone like Seymour Hersh if they thought he would somehow be an obstacle. But for another thing, who do you think the 'malign actors' are? It's not the Illuminati or the Elders of Zion or whatever. They're not hiding their identities or their job titles. Many of them ran in more or less open, more or less democratic elections. One of the points Hersh made in this interview is that nobody is really hiding their intentions or anything. They might resort to some level of secrecy for practical or legal reasons, but often they don't even do that much.
This was extremely stressful to listen to.
Really awesome ep, cool how you admire him and I think you got more than anyone else would.
I see RWN has been quoted on rt.com! https://www.rt.com/news/571420-seymour-hersh-nord-stream/ No more evidence is now needed that RWN is a Russian bot factory paid directly by Putin's mistress in nazi gold ;-)
Mark did a great job with a pretty slippery guest. Great interview, great guest, awesome!
Exactly. Slippery is the word
Germany should still be called west Germany
Or the west’s Germany
I'm sorry to say it, but this was really underwhelming in terms of meaningful content. I listened in hoping to know more about the Nord Stream story, but most of the interview was just old stories and internal journalism gossip. Which can be fun, but when you've got 30 minutes with the guy who has just written the bombshell story of the year so far? The only thing substantial that I got out of this which at least in my opinion strenghtened the story was that 1) Hersh has been working on the article with an editor, 2) that he sort of hinted to there being corroborating sources that do not appear in the article, and 3) that at least one of these work within the pipeline construction industry. However, no material evidence has still been presented, and this interview isn't gonna convince anyone who wasn't already persuaded by the original article. As a (self-obsessive) Norwegian I was very curious to hear some substantiation on the role of both the Norwegian navy and Jens Stoltenberg in this. The story doesn't match publicly available data on the flight pattern of any of our Poseidon airplanes, so there are obviously some inaccurasies in the article. I also find it very hard to believe Stoltenberg was a CIA informant when he was just a young teen. An informant to Norwegian intelligence? I wouldn't put it past him. But I don't see why the CIA would bother, nor have the resources to interfere in the local youth wing of a Norwegian center left party. (And before anyone accuses me of defending Stoltenberg, let me just add that I think no politician since WWII has had a greater deleterious impact on Norwegian society than him.)
I guess you either believe Sy Hersh is a truth teller or you don't. I most certainly believe him. And George Seldes. But you can put your faith in "public data" if you like.
Hersh made his career exposing the My Lai Massacre and Colin Powell made his career covering it up The arc of history is long but sometimes I really wish it bent towards justice at a steeper angle
Come on guys he's a crank. He's rested on the laurels of 2 stories his whole career. Don't trust him and he's damn near 90
Trying to imagine believing anyone but the US was behind this and can't
That was spectacular. Really great. This article and interview contrast so much with the deafening silence of the mainstream (non-) coverage of the bombing these last months. I'd guess the US were counting on that silence and on the fact that that would negate the 'downsides' Mark was talking about. Kinda like a bully slapping you in the face and saying "what are you gonna do about it?" Also, I think I saw someone on here talk about the (US-) propaganda situation in Germany. I think it's probably similar to the Netherlands. The mainstream here is completely dominated by the US/NATO narrative. Like 100%. (Twitter plays a really big role in synchronization of accepted/elite opinions between the US and the Netherlands, I feel)
More like Seymour HARSH! Good job, Mark.
Incredible episode!
Well done for getting this interview and well done for putting it up for free on youtube also. This has gone a significant way in repairing my faith in you both. Although Hersch clearly didn't want to distract from his story I'd take very seriously his hints on the difference between how the war is being reported and how it is actually going. You guys have been far, far too credulous of the MSM narrative generally, not just on the Nordstream bombing.
Putin messed up by not going for a full on war at the beginning. A limited scope SMO with a cheaply funded army has delayed things and raised the anger levels in UA society. Mark had good reasons to be sceptical of Putin's warmaking
I'm glad you guys got Hersh. It's a feather in your cap. The Nerd bailing was lame but Mark held the fort. 😉 It's pathetic that no other news outlet has interviewed him and shows the uselessness of the MSM.
Wait, was John talking about Nina Jankowicz? The former head of Biden's Disinformation Governance Board? Oh lord, did you miss a story! Google her. Just Google her.
no he tweeted about this lady's article her name is Mia Jankowicz but if they're related that would be quite hilarious.
Why did Seymour Hersh treat Mark Ames like that? Completely uncalled for and really really stupid. Anyone who hears this isn't going to want to have that happen to them. Sure he is old, sure he doesn't care because he is a legendary news guy who did and continues to do great work but fuck his behaviour on that show.
He's *85*. And he's Seymour Fucking Hersh. It's fine. Mark is great, I'm a long time fan but it's truly an honour to to be the first person to interview *Hersh* after *that* story, politesse be damned. Mark's in the history books and 3000 years later when some historian studies the 2022 Nordstream Pipeline bombing they'll hear Mark's interview.
Thank you guys for this!
Also I have to eat crow, I thought it was the uk. I guess not.
US, UK … what’s the difference nowadays?
Germany is a completely cucked nation. They knew who did it and they won't do anything about it.
This is what I can't get over. How utterly mentally dominated is Germany. Any other country there'd be riots and the embassy besieged.
German Green party , Nuland , and Biden had only mentioned scrapping NS2 in public. But in the end they scrapped NS1 as well
An honor for the show and for the listener. In this world of cynics nice to occasionally see someone like Mark's dedication to the spirit of journalism pay off in something like an audience with a legend like Hersh. Thanks so much, guys.
Years ago I was a young journamalism student and met Hersh after a talk. That whole moment just came back when I heard him speak.
Wonderful interview. It was like hearing a wise man from ancient times. Even the accent, probably remains in only movies now.
Awesome!
Looking forward to this one! My hunch was that it made more sense as a US/Western attack than a Russian one, but war is weird and I wasn't (and still am not) going to pretend I knew for sure
God damn, *I* feel bruised coming out of that interview, Jesus Christ. Bloody stellar job there Mark. Absolutely fantastic episode
Hersh was super cantankerous in Wormwood so I was shocked later to hear him refer to Errol Morris as a good friend. I guess he just gets really testy when the topic of sources comes up, which is entirely understandable. That said, that little bit he gave about the pipeline industry insiders was one hell of a catch on Mark’s part.
Big get boys, let’s go
Well done!
This is the happiest Ive ever heard Mark Ames on this show. I don't know if I've ever heard Dr. Dolan call somebody Mister on it before this episode
Yaaaaaay!
hell yeah dude
Well, the CIA greenlighted killing Diem, nothing particularly new.
I'm Waiting for poor Zelensky to find out he's not hanging around to spend his retirement fund or live in that Florida estate. Wonder if his wife will get to?
What a catch!
Incredible scoop guys, second only to Hersh's itself of course. Kudos to Mark for drawing out some really fascinating (and comforting) statements, and great insight into the intelligence reporting business too. Congrats!
Amazing interview Mark! What a character. It didn't sound like he was going start into ridicule just a bit testy in responding to everything? Or he really wanted to get lunch 😅 Glad you pushed him about the possibility of multiple sources corroborating what is in the piece. That was useful to hear from him.
Hersh at 85 is sharper than most journalists in their 40s. The key phrase to me was his, "the war I know about isn't the war you are reading about." It took Mark four months and an article from Hersh to come to grips with the otherwise seemingly obvious Occam's Razor conclusion about who blew up the pipelines. I wonder how long and what it would take Mark and John to move from their stubborn insistence that the war is "stupid" and a disastrous Russian mistake to a more nuanced interpretation of the realities of what's been going on. Another article by Hersh maybe?
Yes. After them going 'Oh, makes sense" to that last guest who was misinforming them that it must be Russians breaking their own toys, I've been quietly thinking about why some newly minted writer types vidding as unlikely to get a job at NYT or WaPo would have (otherwise inexplicably) headed for the starving shit show of Yeltsin era Russian Federation and started a contrarian/fratboy hybrid "newspaper", glorifying all that was wrong in the ruins of the freshly crumped in center of the old USSR. The answer wasn't making me feel good about MY OWN level of gullibility as I'd been following these guys since way before "The War Nerd " was outed as not being a fat cubicle crawler from the asshole of CA, AKA Fresno.
Dolan: "Mister Hersh, I'm old enough to remember when My Lai broke" Hersh: "Oh my god - why are you still working? You're too old to work"
😂
Very good! I’ve been critical lately but thank for humans like hersh.
Seeing this pop up in my notifications made me scream as well - way to power through the interview!
"Lets fucking go" Seymour Hersh
so freaking great. your persistence was epic. your integrity shone through and you got the job done. i was expecting an ep on the story but the scoop with Hersh is one for the ages.
thank you Michelle
He’s intense, great interview
Ooooooh lets go!!!!!!
First time I've heard Mark scared. And Mark faced down Russia in the 90's.
Felt like a KamAZ was doing donuts on my brain
I LITERALLY SCREAMED
😮😮😮
My dick is out already
Jackpot interview. Great job Ames!
Wowie looking forward to this one
Hell yeah let's go
LFG
Quick turnaround. But was anyone really surprised who the guilty party was?
It's being too clever by half – but at root it's a good impulse. If you're more inclined to believe something, you're susceptible to motivated reasoning. So as skeptical people, we probably should try to find answers that go against our initial assumptions.
oh yea
Wow