Radio War Nerd #325 — Modern Urban Warfare: Marawi, Raqqa, Mosul, Mariupol
Recorded: April 7, 2022
With the battle for Mariupol in its second month, we look back at some other recent examples of urban warfare, focusing on the battles in Marawi, Jenin, Fallujah, Raqqa, and Mosul.
Total time: 1:45:52
Comments (30)
At this level, the sheer scope and amount of "intelligence sharing" seems to go way beyond communication and coordination to outright command and control. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-intel-helped-ukraine-protect-air-defenses-shoot-russian-plane-carry-rcna26015
If the past is the key to the future? ----- HISTORY Alexander Pushkin: And, Frankly, You Are Hating Us In 1831 Alexander Pushkin wrote ODE TO DEFAMERS OF RUSSIA. It was his response to some voices in the French parliament calling for armed intervention on the side of Polish insurgents against the Russian army (up to 1917 Poland was part of Russia). In the poem Pushkin explained why the quarrels between Slavs must be decided between Slavs themselves. He called on Europeans not to interfere and made it very clear why they hate Russia. True as it ever was. Enjoy reading and make your own opinion about it. What’s that you’re trumpeting about, calumniators? How come you threaten us with excommunication? What has enraged you? Lithuanian unease? Forget it: this is Slavic beef among their kindred, Domestic ancient squabble, fate has long since figured, A puzzle, you don’t have whatever chance to read. These here contiguous tribes already Have long been feuding up to now; Each party, be it ours or theirs, Bent under gathering storm clouds. Who’ll stand the ground when odds are heavy: A haughty Lech? A faithful Russ? The question is if Slavic floods will ever Blend in the Russian sea or it’ll reduce. Leave us alone: you’re unacquainted With suchlike bloody sacred tablets; This family, domestic feud Is alien, obscure to you; For all you care, Prague or Kremlin; Instead, you’re foolishly entranced By daring courage of a melee – And, frankly, you are hating us… Why? On the grounds that, on the ashes Of blazing Moscow, we refused To buy the power of the brash, who You trembled underneath, subdued? Respond: because we sent the idol, Who’d been predominating kingdoms, to abyss, Thus having paid with our lifeblood For Europe’s freedom, state and peace?.. To hear you talk, you’re tough; then test yourselves in action! As if an aged hero, calm in relaxation, Can’t fix his Ismailian bayonet to a gun; As if the word of Russian tsar is but a trinket Or brawls with Europe any different Or Russians out of form to overcome. As if we’re few; as if from Taurida to Perm reels, From ardent Caucasus to Finnish chilly skerries, From Kremlin, shaken to the core, Up to the walls of quiescent China The Russian soil will never rise up And scintillate with her steel thorns. Then send your bellicose descendants, Defamers, over to our place! There’s room enough, in Russian grasslands, Among deserving of them graves. -Alexander Pushkin, 1831 https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/03/31/alexander-pushkin-and-frankly-you-are-hating-us/
Pushkin was basically a court poet at that time. He praised the bloodshed Russians caused both in Caucasus and Poland. Typical attitude of a jingoist - when the world's critique falls upon you you cry in pain as a victim. Adam Mickiewicz, polish poet, called Pushin out on his chauvinism and the betrayal of the decembrist ideals in his response "To our friends Muscovites".
There’s a book mark mentioned once or twice a few episodes ago about Gorbachev and the mistakes he made and how it lead to the collapse. I’ve tried looking for it but there’s a few out there and want the get the right one.
I think it was "Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union" by Vladislav M. Zubok
Mariupol gets a lot of press, but very little of the fighting in Ukraine overall has been urban warfare -- you might call it suburban at best. What's striking about this invasion is that is precisely the sort of war that The War Nerd told us (and I for one believed) would never happen: columns of armor (and everything else in your Jane's guides) battling it out over flat terrain on the Eastern Front. Saying "we got it wrong" about the run-up to the war and short-term predictions is boring -- everyone else got it wrong, too, including western institutions (they thought Ukraine would fall in four days). There's a much bigger and more interesting "we got it wrong" here: this wasn't supposed to be possible. The people counting tanks and plotting out artillery logistics on sand tables were supposed to be dinosaurs -- clown dinosaurs, even -- we all laughed and laughed at them, and yet now, somehow, they've got the war they always wanted. It'll take a long time to sink in, lord knows, but I hope some day we'll get to hear a long and thoughtful discussion of how and why The War Nerd got THAT wrong.
Twitter suspending RWA has really solidified how powerful and ubiquitous the censorship regime is. Seeing right-wingers, the most gullible losers, think Elon Musk is going to be their savior and the savior of free speech (Twitter will vaporize all pro-labor content) makes it clear that no one is saving us.
Oh man, 2022 me could not even fathom the reactionary retardation that will become "discourse" on Twitter. Even for the core of a dying global empire, what the fuck? Is there just a large class of people that are dumb, evil, and beyond saving?
It's strange hearing Gary say "Hey get out, we told you to get out. Ok our job is legally done" when the Russians then flattened the Kramatorsk train station killing scores of women and children who had GOTTEN OUT
I described the 'Get out' command on the show as legalistic, using that term as a pejorative. In my mind, at least, legalistic excuses are among the deadliest. That said, it's not clear who fired that missile. It seemed odd from the beginning. Why would Russian troops write 'For the children'? No Russian children have been killed in this war AFAIK.
Links: Here is her story in Russian: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/historyyy/za-chto-viktoriiu-nuland-pobili-v-pionerskom-lagere-sssr-v-odesse-kogda-ona-tam-byla-vojatoi-po-obmenu-61f8ec7b99b6ce465058ccd0 And on Russian TV: https://yandex.ru/video/preview/14660265624724480854
According to the below, Victoria Nuland (Nudelman) (Kagan) got her ass whupped by another (female, teen aged) camp counselor at a Ukranian children's camp when she was a teen for disrespecting and laughing at the children. If the below is Russian propaganda, OUTSTANDING! If it's true (and was a formative experience for her?) It's horrible to think how many deaths that summer camp incident may have lead to. (I shall post the links separately in case THAT was the trigger for censorship.) ----- “It happened in 1982. I worked as a children’s camp guide (Russian: pioner vozhataya) at Molodaya Gvardia in Odessa. Sorry to say, but I had a huge fight in which blood was drawn, with one American girl. She was also a camp guide who came from the US as part of an exchange program. I once caught her entertaining herself by throwing semechki in the dirt under her feet and laughing when little Ukrainian kids picked up and ate these dirty semechki. I remembered forever the name of that b*tch. She was called Vicky. For that fight I received a public Komsomol reprimand and they threw me out of camp. Earlier today, I read with great surprise in Nuland’s bio that she worked in 1982 in Odessa’s Molodaya Gvardia as pioner vozhataya, being part of the exchange program, and that her impressions of the USSR were of the most negative kind. I always thought I did the right thing giving her that thrashing. I haven’t regretted it then and don’t regret today. Not enough though; should’ve given her more.”
Good episode guys. I never gave this aspect of combat enough thought.
one of the weird details about this new war, from what I heard, is that the initial russian offensive was made up of a mishmash of battalions drawn from all over. Instead of keeping battalion groups together, the force was amalgamated by taking one BN from here, another from there, this one and that one etc etc. No idea why you would do that unless you had a really dumb idea of how the army works, or if you think the guys standing guard at the border are enough to win the war.
spitballing here but at first everybody thought it was a training exercise, would it have made sense in that context to mix and match units?
Agree with yall on most points here . The detail was interesting and helpful
What really confuses me though is that the narrative that Russia is losing or doing some mass retreat from Kyiv is rather recent if I understand correctly? But as recently as this financial times article, it sounds like this was being planned well in advance: https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-d375-4817-be67-802b7fa77ef1 The article says they were considering pulling out of the northern front to facilitate good faith at the peace talks in exchange for Ukraine considering a neutrality agreement. And in fact, by the end of last month the US was leaking to the US press that they believed that their offer to withdraw from the northern front around kyiv was simply a ruse: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/blog/ukraine-russia-war-live-updates-delegations-arrive-peace-talks-n1293490 I mean which is it? Are they pulling out of Kyiv because of a peace negotiation and its niave to believe they will hold up their commitments at the peace table? Or are they retreating in utter shame? It feels like it can't be both.... two weeks is a long time in a war I guess. But its not like we've suddenly learned in this last two weeks any sort of indication that Ukraine was getting the upper hand in regards to like air superiority.
Russia made the (face saving?) claim that the Kiev attack was a diversion, my personal hunch is that Russia realized they were a bit overextended and so shifted operational goals from Kiev to the East where they have a stronger potential advantage, with the looming encirclement of Ukrainian forces.
Respectfully: If my comment re: Teenaged Victoria Nuland made less than an hour ago was beyond the pale and was removed by the almighty Exile censor, I can handle that. It's your place, your rules. If it disappeared for reasons other than Mark or John axeing it, we all may have a problem.
Robert, your comments are likely being deleted because Patreon has very strict spam detection. It’s happened to me many times. Long comments, and comments that come soon after others you make, are often deleted.
What a difference a week makes. I watched video of a bunch of marines in Mariupol surrendering this am. THEY don't have to worry about getting executed & are behaving like sane professionals who know they have 0 chance of winning or even holding out untill relieved. The Azov who survived last night's attempt at a break out in a convoy of military vehicles + civilian trucks & cars painted up with counterfeit "Zs" are back to hiding in the basement at the steel mill. While the Russians pump the basement full of water with all the local fire trucks they could commandeer.
It’s coming to a close. More than a thousand surrendered today. That’s huge. There’s no way there’s more than a couple hundred left at most.
This is getting ridiculous guys. Yes, just like everyone else you called the invasion incorrectly. We all did. Now all we get is absolute belief in every western narrative about what’s happening in Ukraine from this podcast. I’m not the only one perplexed by this, just read the comments that are starting to come in. We’re not asking for a pro-Russian view, but if all we wanted was the western side of things we would stick to the mainstream news that is blasted at us everyday. I have heard zero pushback from Gary on any of Mark’s takes - this is getting bizarre.
As westerners ourselves the only sources we have are going to be from the west. All you can do really is say your thoughts on what western media is currently saying. No one really knows anything, and RWN has made it clear they aren’t sure either. I don’t think that means they’re trusting completely in western narratives.
Re: the lack of urban warfare paintings, you are 100% right it is considered unglamorous, but also buildings are hard to draw. Empty fields! An illustrator’s dream!
Good point, I hadn't thought of that.
please please bring back putting the time in the description where you stop the takes and start with the history
And they used white phosphorus rounds at Fallujah, basically chemical WMD.
I'm glad they mentioned the depleted uranium in widespread US military use. I really don't understand how the US has the nerve to point the finger at anyone regarding war crimes or chemical weapons for that alone. Do a search on "Fallujah birth defects" if you ever want to see the real horrors of the Iraq war still visited upon innocents. Then listen to the war hawks on the Sunday talk shows calling for NATO intervention, and try not to vomit.
been waiting on this one for yyyyyyears lol