Radio War Nerd EP #154 — Brazil's Military Dictatorship & 2018 Elections
Guest: Brian Mier, editor Brasil Wire
Recorded: October 23, 2018
On the eve of Brazil's 2018 presidential election between the neofascist Jair Bolsonaro—a zealous fan of Brazil's military dictatorship—and leftist Fernando Haddad, the War Nerd invited Sao Paulo-based journalist Brian Mier on to walk us through Brazil's political history of the past 70 years, the military dictatorship that ruled from 1964-85, and Brazil's most important political figures from Getúlio Vargas and João Goulart, to urban guerrilla leader Carlos Marighella and Brazilian dictator Humberto Castelo Branco . . . Later in our interview, Brian explains how the "impeachment" removal of Brazil's center-left president Dilma Rousseff was actually a coup not dissimilar from previous Brazil military coups, and how the key weapon in this coup, Brazil's "Operation Car Wash" corruption investigation, got a lot of help from the usual suspects in Washington DC . . .
Read Brian Mier's work at BrasilWire. Follow BrasilWire on Twitter
Maps
* Brazil states & cities/population
* Brazil vegetation map
Total time: 2:27:31
Comments (41)
Wow Hadad sounds like an awesome mayor. Since he lost the presidential election sadly, can he come to the US and run one of our cities please?
I found this episode extremely interesting and enlightening when I listened to it but today Carl Bildt posted about Bolsanaro on his blog and now I'm confused. Bildt writes that the rise of Bolsanaro has nothing to do with right wing extremism. Rather, it's a healthy reaction to corruption in Brazils political system. Can Mark Ames please explain how I should take this new information. Carl Bildt wouldn't lie to me, surely.
are you f'in serious? I know Bildt is the Tony Blair of Sweden, sleazy and hollow, but - there are rules, dude.
I think Mark Ames mentioned that Modi is trying the same tactic of emptying the countryside? Considering the land size of India vs. the population makes this impractical, I have not heard this at all, in fact Modi is extremely pro rural in his policies and speeches
Landed gentry...
Great interview!
Oh, that time the Portugese exile government was actually in Brazil. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_the_Portuguese_Court_to_Brazil" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_the_Portuguese_Court_to_Brazil</a> But hey, its true that this is neo fascism. Its in these days, in case we havent noticed.
<a href="https://www.ianwelsh.net/7-rules-for-running-a-real-left-wing-government/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.ianwelsh.net/7-rules-for-running-a-real-left-wing-government/</a> Despite cordially fighting with him as a shitlib (meaning me, c. 1979-2012) against what my West Wing poisoned mind thought were MEAN and BAD ideas way back when I appreciated Ian Welsh's thoughts on morality and ethics even back in Obama's first term. Took me a few years to realize that those silly things might even matter in politics. So horribly aprapos.
Good stuff. Also: <a href="https://www.ianwelsh.net/what-jair-bolsonaros-unfortunate-brazilian-victory-means/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.ianwelsh.net/what-jair-bolsonaros-unfortunate-brazilian-victory-means/</a>#comment-100381 . (I think the abortion part is more projection of his interest than general opinion, but I'm in favor of all others, and would suggest even considering that one if politically expedient. About "the humanities", people trained in something directly productive should learn some of that, but I don't think people should be trained only in that.) That said, suppose you favor the 7 rules: how're you gonna do that, if Leftists have been tending to not be qualified for ANY part of those tasks, and indeed to think learning many of them is itself morally wrong?
An informative, if uncharitable episode. To attribute Bolsonaro's appeal almost exclusively to things like brainwashing and racism seems laughably simple.
? That's not what I heard. Biased perhaps, but this was all about the class interests of people with money.
god what a great but depressive episode! brian did a really good job introducing us. stunned by the facts coming up about the life of brazilians. good lord!
This by rodrigo nunes is quite good on the immediate circumstances around the rise of Bolsonaro, including the PT handling the protests badly: <a href="https://www.acast.com/politicstheoryother/26-rodrigo-nunes-on-a-victory-for-fascism-in-brazi" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.acast.com/politicstheoryother/26-rodrigo-nunes-on-a-victory-for-fascism-in-brazi</a>
I liked the show and I don't know how you could balance this unless you can show that Haddad was financed by equally shady financiers. I'm guessing there is another side to the argument but I don't know what it could be given how awful Bolsonaro is based on simple viewing of his own words (translated to be fair - I don't know portuguese) but the rage in his eyes can't be healthy. Yet people vote for him. Maybe because they hate the left and the poor. This is increasingly the divide we see elsewhere sadly. I guess it is a form of reaction. I read Late Victorian Holocausts after the episode where you discussed it. The book had a lot on Brazil and the famines in the North East and also the War of the Canudos which someone else asked you to cover here. What I fould interesting in the book was the divide between the North and South where, while the North was starving, the South was experiencing a Coffee boom which lead to a strong currency which further depressed the North because its main crop was sugar and the strong currency made it too expensive for the market. I read the wikipedia page on Jim Jones recently which was at pains to point out that Jones was a communist. I took it at face value but can't help wondering if this doesn't make a weird story even weirder, if that's possible. The Mitrione kidnapping was dealt with in Costa Gavras film State of Siege, though given what a monster he was, I couldn't help feeling that he was given too much respect. We talk about fake news now but I had a relation who went to his death believing that Mitrione was a poor, helpless victim who was just an agricultural advisor. On Garibaldi, I can recommend Jasper Ridley's biography of him ( <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garibaldi-Jasper-Ridley/dp/1842121529/ref=sr_1_18?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541328700&sr=1-18&keywords=jasper+ridley)." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garibaldi-Jasper-Ridley/dp/1842121529/ref=sr_1_18?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541328700&sr=1-18&keywords=jasper+ridley).</a> ) There is a more modern one (Lucy Riall's Invention of a Hero) which is said to be critical of him (I haven't read it). Tim Parks wrote an article in response which was good ( <a href="http://timparks.com/garibaldi-the-fighter/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://timparks.com/garibaldi-the-fighter/)</a> ) Fun fact: Garibaldi went to fight in the Franco-Prussian war and was undefeated at the end (though I suspect his engagement was limited). Garibaldi fought in the 10 year siege of Montevideo on the Colorados (Liberal/Urban) side. They were fighting the Blancos (Conservatives/Rural) who were supported by Rosas in Argentina. This is interesting because the same divide led to the war of the triple alliance where the Colorados, supported by Brasil this time, overthrew the Blanco dictatorship and Paraguay came to the aid of the Blancos.
If if matters, the Workers' Party has gotten campaign money from at least 1 oil-rich (with a miserable population) African dictator (Equatorial Guinea, I think Angola too). Voting for Bolsonaro is indeed proportional to wealth, but the richest aren't many, and we know that his base level of support (among the poorest) is not in fact low. What do they hate? Common crime first, political corruption second. Neither of those is Workers'-Party-specific (and there's propaganda to make it appear they are, yes), but haven't been solved, lots of people got tired, and those people aren't much for complex solutions (pro-Bolsonaro people have been bragging that voting for Bolsonaro is proportional to education, but it's mainly the types of education not-necessarily-"intellectual" richer people have to stay richer).
The arc of history does not bend towards justice.
Not that there isn't some predictability to history, but yes, it doesn't point to any specific direction called "justice".
I gotta say I'm not happy the dude never mentioned the stabbing which it seems, arguably, was central to Bolsonaro's election. Would've tied nicely into last week's discussion of the utitlity of leadership decapitation strategies. Though the culprit was possibly insane. I found out after the podcast, and I think it explains a lot. Has a politician ever NOT benefitted greatly from a failed assassination attempt. I was all ready to chew into the guy for praising Mao for doubling life expectancy too, but it turns out he was more or less right about that LOL
He was on track to a likely win before the stabbing - nobody could prevent the Workers' Party from getting 2nd place in the 1st round, and too many people got sick of it (besides Bolsonaro's anti-common-crime promises) for it to be likely to win the 2nd (the previous win was very narrow, more corruption was uncovered since then, and Bolsonaro is more charismatic to typical Brazilian sensibilities than previous opponents).
looking forward to a Mao episode
^^ This.
Yeah this guy Mier seems like a second-rate communist crank. Never discusses the obvious problems that Brazil’s left has created, such as too much street crime, violence, kidnappings. There’s a reason people voted for Bolsonaro, and it’s because Brazil is a shit-show. But, Mier gives a take that like some straight-out-of-1960s boomer-tier communist fogie.
Yeah, that’s sort of true, but they’re smart enough and interesting enough to rise above their “boomer-tier-iness”. But this guy Mier is like pure 1960s leftist fogie, much more so than Ames or John Dolan.
I do agree that the guest left some things out and I didn't agree with him on everything, but I will say that you can't be neutral about Bolsonaro. The dude is a total monster. That being said, I thought it was an interesting episode and covered a lot of ground for listeners who are unfamiliar with Brazil. Honestly, Radio War Nerd had neglected Latin America and they should do more episodes on Brazil because it is so complex and has such a rich history. They should do an episode on the War of Canudos with readings from Os Sertões for example. That would be a perfect War Nerd show.
Who are all these fucking nerds criticizing this episode for having an opinion on Brazilian politics. Did you lose the remote? Ask your grandkids to change the channel back to MSNBC.
Do you know the name of the podcast?
On a more serious note, I didn't find it too difficult to filter what Mier said through his lens. He's a pretty obvious partisan for PT, but so what? He wasn't trying to hide that. There have been a number of RWN guests who have different politics than I hold, but often that's who I find most interesting. Eg, Jack Murphy. There is a striking dearth of English language coverage of Brazil outside of the inane mainstream consensus, so I found it interesting to hear his perspective. I certainly disagreed with some points.
Read my reply to Ames' comment. Mier left so much out of his explanation of the election that it almost amounts to lying.
I'm shocked. SHOCKED that there are political opinions expressed in my war podcast by outspoken journalists that covers current events. How could this happen. Really though, I feel like I learnt a hell of a lot this episode even if I for some reason was to discount the more opinionated parts. Oh, and if you want to continue this discussion on left nationalism then that Garibaldi episode is an excellent idea.
War Nerds 50 or 100 years from now may look back at this momentous point in history, with the turn towards authoritarianism and out-right fascism, and wonder which voices stood up against it. Not the mainstream media for sure. The guest wasn't neutral, impossible to stay neutral, specially living in Sao Paolo on the eve of a potential disaster for the largest country in South America.
"São Paulo". Might as well clarify we do *not* speak Castillian.
Hahaha...if I heard a "neutral" or NYT/BBC/"objective" stance from either of you on an obvious shit like Bolsonaro, I'd worry that the Raiders season was starting to make you crack. Jesus, having Dolan crack a joke about the NFL was almost jarring. I had no idea he followed ANY sports. And I'm such a big fan that I even own a couple books of his poetry. I actually whispered to myself, "My God, are the Raiders really THAT bad?"
I'm liking the episode so far, but maybe in the interests of balance next time the guest should be from the other side of the spectrum, for instance a Proud Boy or a member of Atomwaffen
(Haven't listened yet.) I've nothing against interviewing "Far-Rightists" or possibly even actual ones, but something that didn't sound immensely stupid might be a better choice.
Strike me dead if I take a “neutral” stance in Bolsonaro or the military dictatorship
There's a difference between not being centrist and just listing the mean things Bolsonaro has said and calling it analysis. I could find lists like that in any Anglo newspaper. Brazil has been suffering from a recession since 2014. Unemployment was at 13% just last year, which was worse than the 10% unemployment at the peak of the Great Recession in the US. There has also been a huge murder epidemic, with 50,000-60,000 people being killed every year for the last five years, which is worse than Syria. This guy makes no mention of either of these issues because these problems started when the PT was in power, and because he wants to condemn Bolsonaro voters as racist and brainwashed morons, which makes him sound exactly like a centrist Democrat in the US making excuses for Hillary Clinton. This is really unfortunate because you and John missed some very rich veins - there was very little talk about the history of extreme police violence in Brazil, and no mention at all of how the markets have rewarded the Temer golpe. Investors love Temer's austerity, and stocks rose after Bolsonaro was stabbed last month - another important part of the election which went unmentioned. All that is to say nothing of his whitewashing of Getulio Vargas, who gets a pass for 15 years of fascism. Sure, he locked up some integralists, but others were incorporated into the government. Guys in Vargas' orbit like Filinto Muller also had close connections with fascists in Portugal, Germany, and Italy, and he looked the other way while they built concentration camps in the interior for political dissidents. To gloss over that because of labor reforms (that were never enforced in his lifetime) is far worse than being neutral on dictatorship.
I feel about this show the exact opposite of the above comments: FINALLY a realistic view instead of a the centrist slant the show has taken lately! This was excellent, one of the very best RWN lately.
What do you mean by "centrist", other than Landis? Or was the criticism of (a really stupid, in fact familiar-feeling to me as a Brazilian) French Left insufficiently Leftist for you?
Disappointing show. It is good, as you said at the beginning of the show, to try to understand other cultures in their own terms and to move out of the Anglo culture where you grow up. But instead of getting a neutral observer to comment on Brazil, you got an… Anglo observer. And a really bad one, I must say: bad diction, use of the word “shit” as an argument, calling “fascist” to anybody he disliked. Besides, what is the point of inviting a supporter of Haddad to comment on Bolsonaro? Come on, the entire show was predictable from the beginning to the end. Hilarious also the fact that your guest was constantly complaining about North American rightwing interference in Brazil and he ends up doing exactly the same sort of interference, but from a leftwing North American point of view. Anyway, RWN is getting increasingly political and moralising and moving away from the classical War Nerd material published in The Exile, that is, a witty analysis on militar history and, in particular, a nihilistic view of humankind. Get back to the original War Nerd. As far as I am concerned I am not interested in the political platform in which RWN is increasingly becoming. Best regards
Well, bye.
It's really disappointing that you guys chose such a crank to discuss these subjects. This guy sounds like he's being paid to whitewash the PT - or maybe make it look bad.