Radio War Nerd EP #628 — The Israel Lobby, feat. Eli Clifton and Ian Lustick

Don’t know where else to post this, but with John having been through Asia, I wonder if there could be an episode on the Iran war’s economic effects on the countries there, specifically on the Japanese economy. Seems like there is something cooking there

Who cares if it’s “dangerous” for Jews?

So good! Another great example of objectivity examining Israel from Jewish voices. I believe any potential path to a “peace-ish?” solution has to include a strong Jewish voice, particularly a strong Jewish American voice. I don’t know how accurate such things are, but from what I’ve seen estimates show over an 80% American Jewish approval of Israel, still. I think that number has to get much lower to make any lasting headway. If not, anti-zionism will continue to be conflated with antisemitism, and our collective march toward a panopticon of techo-fascism continues.

Uh… did Eli refer to Mark as Matt? He knows he’s not on Chapo, right?

Mark didn't read Karen Hao's book on AI

Alright, Nahm Coleman. My late father had two stints in the Minnesota Attorney General's Office, once in the mid-70s, once in the mid-80s, something like late 1973 to late 1978 and mid 1984 to early 1987. In this, he made the acquaintance of Norm Coleman, and got to see him at different phases of his career. Coleman had a picture of him onstage behind a microphone, fiddling with it, and walking onto the stage is none other than Jerry Rubin! (Slim chance it was Bill Kunstler; the ashes next to my television aren't taking questions for clarification.) In the 1970s, Nahm would introduce the picture with something like, "Yeah, man, you want wild? When Jerry Rubin came to Hofstra, I got to introduce him!" My father gets a couple of different jobs, we move around Minnesota a bit, but in the mid-1980s he's back at the AG again. Nahm had underwent something of a political evolution, and he'd introduce it with something like, "Well, when I was young, I was really wild. At Hofstra, I introduced Jerry Rubin!" However, my father noted that, in the picture, Coleman is *not* leading a crowd or speaking or anything like introducing someone, but instead fixing a microphone. He always said Nahm was a nice guy, but utterly fake, and this was his illustrating tale.

I’m about 25 minutes in and maybe this gets answered later, but I’ve been dying to know this for ages. I’m looking at this from a Marxist perspective, and what I want to know is: * What is the origin of the Israel lobby? Yes, I’ve heard the Blowback miniseries, but there’s just a little on the origin of AIPAC as a PR team. * What does the lobby represent? Not just Jewish Americans here or even Evangelicals; both groups are starting to break here. But what interests are represented? Someone is making money in the US over this. Are we talking about defense contractors making money over the loot mandated to Israel (and Egypt) by the Camp David Accords? Or is there something more? Yes, I’ve read the original Mearshimer and Walt essay. It shows its influence, but in it the Lobby comes across in it as coming from Mars.

John M erasure

One major part of the Israel lobby story that I haven't heard discussed in detail are relationships of non-Jewish Zionists like Rupert Murdoch and Axel Springer CEO Mathias Döpfner. Murdoch in particular has had a massive influence in the anglo-sphere shaping public opinion for at least a couple generations. These relationships aren't just about Israel per se, they have very much been about advancing a right-wing policy agenda globally. That might have been less true at one time, when Israel's survival was predicated on cultivating good relationships with center-left governments in places like the UK and the U.S., however, it is hard to tell a story about the neo-liberal era in particular, beginning in the 1970s, without including the role that Israel and its lobbies have played in a kind of mutual support program with right-wing groups and governments around the globe. As far as it relates to the U.S., I think a major problem that the Israel lobby is encountering now is that it has been too successful. Right-wing nationalists in the U.S. want to dominate the globe, they do not want to be dominated or even "equal partners" with a foreign government. At best the relationship with Israel only works to the extent that Israel is willing to accept its role as a junior partner. However, nationalism and national pride, are what they are.

I remember reading Mearsheimer and Walts Israel Lobby book back in 2010 and the insane smear campaign leveled against them and how coming out against the lobby then could be a career ender. Now it's safe and we are getting a deluge of these. Mearsheimer has got the biggest balls of any analyst in the game. Edit: does anyone know if this book adds anything that wasn’t already made clear in Mearsheimers book?

in 2017 oregon’s senator ron wyden introduced a bill that would have made it a crime for an american citizen to advocate for boycot/divest/sanction of israel. last year his security staff assaulted people speaking out against israel’s genocide at a campaign event.

Wow, the Citizens United v FEC thing hit hard - carefully planned consequences take time recognize I guess. Still, that's an amazing accomplishment that I didn't see in plain sight. Whatever.

"democritizing israel" just sounds like a backdoor win for jewish supremecists

What the hell

It's wild to me that foreign meddling this noxious has been permitted as long as it has.

Israel is the size of New Jersey.

I’m locked in