Radio War Nerd EP #517 — Trump's Trade War, feat. Jeff Stein
Guest: Jeff Stein, Washington Post
Recorded: April 24, 2025
We talk to Jeff Stein about Trump's trade war on the world, and America's decades-long economic wars on much of the world...
Check out RWN EP #446 - John Brown's Insurgency, feat Jeff Stein
Read Jeff's articles at the WaPo. Follow Jeff on Twitter. Check out Jeff Stein's podcast American Carnage.
Non-Alignment Pact by Pere Ubu
Total time: 1:12:59
Direct link to this episode's mp3 here
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Comments (51)
John, I am listening to this episode a couple days late because I was also in the Yucatan, you need hydrocortisone for the bites. I must've gotten 25 bites on each foot and that stuff made it better within 10mins. Get picardin based bug lotion, it doesn't smell, it's way less harmful than DEET, and it doesn't give you the weird icky sunscreen feeling.
I for one welcome our Chinese overlords, but I don’t expect them to ever come. We can inflict a century of humiliation on ourselves without their help.
one of the biggest problems with covering anything related to this trade war is how quickly the Trump regime changes course. on one hand they are extremely dumb, on the other hand it feels like they’re trying to keep us all off balance.
It’s both
Industrial policy really isn’t enough to get manufacturing back to the west. To get manufacturing back, you have to be competitive. To do that, wages will have to fall dramatically. Living standards here would have to approach those in countries where they do manufacture goods.
Or the government would have to provide financial incentives to companies that make it worth their while to pay higher wages. Or, here's a crazy idea, the government could just create public non-profit entities to carry out domestic manufacturing. But obviously those options would not appeal to capitalist morons.
Can you guys cover russias admission of North Koreans in kursk (which is consistent with Russia and north korean arrangements ) in the next show?
How long has Mark and John known each other? Love it. A best buddy story for the ages with plenty of Lewbowski calls. And let's not forget Dunning Kruger was formulated in 1999, and Lebowski with "out of your element" was in 1998!
At least the early 80s I think. Maybe mid 80s? I think Mark had John as a professor lol
Raw Dog Theory
great guest
stein is so smart and really good at explaining things. internet leftists would be really well served reading him, and people like him, to actually understand the global financial system we’re trying to critique
With respect to mosquito bites, I recall an article in "Scientific American" several years ago that explained why hot water works to relieve the itch. If I recall correctly, the mast cells that produce histamine, which in turn results in the itch and swelling, increase the production of histamine as they heat up. They do have a limit, however, so you can essentially exhaust their production for several hours with intense heat, as in a very hot shower. Not a bad treatment if you have access to a really hot shower.
On the economic issues, it seems to me that one underestimates Trump's venality at the peril of all predictions. The only thing Trump cares about is money, particularly and only money in his pocket. The thing to truly fear is his moves and Congress' to support cybercurrency and arrange to have cybercurrencies backed by "the full faith and credit." This is a pyramid scheme that will equal or exceed the mortgage backed securities that nearly took down the global economy in 2008. And Trump will make billions from meaningless assets, further advancing the financial gimmcrackery that is the US economy.
If you're so sure about that, why aren't you buying crypto? As long as you make sure you're not left holding the bag once everyone sells, you could make money too.
Wow, lots of China stans in the comments... Guys, just because the anti-Chinese propaganda has nasty ulterior motives doesn't mean it's not true. The PRC isn't some workers' paradise, and the CCP is gross and corrupt. Just because they're opposed to the empire (through no fault of their own; they were very happy to be America's biggest business partners for decades), doesn't mean they're champions of the poor and downtrodden or something. Yes, the PRC has achieved some impressive things in turns of poverty reduction and improving their infrastructure. That's why the people of China tolerate their greed, corruption, and authoritarian BS. But they are paranoid in quashing any possibility of organized dissent, including labor unions and even harmless things like pride parades. And their facade of democracy is a sham (the fact that other countries' democracies are also a sham doesn't absolve them of guilt). They look good right now compared to the U.S. and its regime, but they don't deserve much credit for that. That can all be true at the same time as the Anglo-led empire being awful. There don't have to be goodguys in this story. You don't have to be on any of these competing nation-states' sides. They're all bad. Even if they aren't equally bad, none of them is worth rooting for. The only reason to trumpet the cause of China is just to outrage American nationalists. Which, okay, is a pretty good reason. But still. Anyway, just remember the most important lesson about China: we must not *overdemonize* them. That might be dangerous. Always demonize in moderation, folks.
this comment section is completely degenerate, I'm embarassed to be here sometines
Quick question: if you’re a small country that wants to stabilize your currency, you buy dollars. With what?
Exports, labor, your own currency or natural resources if either are valuable enough, or through complicated arrangements of obligation with capital institutions like the IMF
John, for whatever punk means or says, I don’t think it’s a very exclusive club. You’re punk as fuck, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise .
the magas say they want to bring back the factories because it makes people vote for them
have you guys ever heard of politicians lying?
You’re both way smarter than that to accept an Econ nerds opinion about China, who’s paid to have that opinion against China.
And also highly disappointing to hear you both ham it up with an agent of capital like that
I think the critical thing missing from your analyses in this episode is that this strategy is being driven in large part by people who don't just want to wreck china, they want to cut off the fatty edges of the empire in order to focus on building some kind of fascist autarky, no matter the pain it causes in the short term. That is the only way the empire survives the coming century that they see, shutting our borders to the world and focusing inward to make the country as white (or at least white dominated) and christian and obedient as possible. They are drooling for an excuse for the insurection act, and if that happens the whole game might be over depending on how succesful their purges of the military and government have been so far. We have to face the reality that a significant part of trumps admin is licking their chops for these policies to trigger an utter collapse of the economy and status quo so they can rebuild the state as they like. I dont know if there is enough of the cabinet and people that matter to force trump down that path. But for God's sake, we're shipping people to concentration camps. So many on our side have already been jailed or deported. The democrats outright support some of the most evil acts of this administration so far. I think that a lot of us thought a point like this would come relatively soon, another enormous crisis for capitalism that will trigger another rise in fascism and horrific crisis across the world as the planet boils, the 1920's with nukes. However,I thought we'd have a little more time
Not to say this is certain to be the beginning of the end, who knows, but a whole lot of people sure want it to be, and who the fuck is there to stop them?
To attempt to answer John's (very good!) questions about "why do Trump admin/elites want to bring toy factories back to Waukegan?": - I think they're a lot more scared than they let on over Ukraine: specifically seeing Russia's ability to outproduce US/EU weapons (like shells) domestically. - Similarly, they're scared of China, and belatedly realizing that the Chinese economy benefits from long-term, centrally planned decisions to favor certain critical industries, and they want to imitate that (without ever using the C-word obviously). - Culturally, manufacturing-type jobs build a solid middle-class base of people who are stable, orderly, not overly educated, not "woke", etc--not saying this is true (or otherwise), but it's how they see it. - Finally, greed. A substantial minority of the American capitalist class seems to think that it might be more profitable to go into partnership with the US security state, and gain subsidies/protection in the market here, rather than compete globally. A very non-exhaustive list of examples includes SpaceX, Palantir, Anduril etc...
I think you're forgetting the most important answer: "They're really, fantastically, dangerously stupid." Like, to achieve any of the goals you list here would require a lot more than tariffs. I don't know if tariffs would even help accomplish any of these things. Ames is way too naive to ever think that Trump and his whole crew (and the Democrats and the rest of the American ruling class) are anything other than colossal idiots who combine a total lack of understanding about even the most basic facts of reality with a blinding overconfidence and utter faith in their various dumbass right-wing ideologies.
His point about the uaw is hilarious
One of these countries spearheads a global system currently facilitating a genocide. American labor has done next to nothing about this but won’t somebody think about how Chinese labor practices represent a danger to American workers hahaha
Would love to hear an episode with Greg Grandin to discuss his new book
JFC, the economic system in the US ISN’T SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR THE MASSES. Its sole purpose is to enrich a small elite. Oh, does that lead to short term decisions that gets you more golden eggs now, but kills the goose faster? Damn, almost as if capitalism contains the seeds of its own destruction.
John, the Trump elites want to bring back manufacturing because they’re stupid. We can’t have a completely unnecessary war with china if they make everything for us. Plus, figuring out new things to manufacture in the rust belt and using federal investment to make it happen would be gay communism
“People in China can’t afford imports because of how devalued the renminbi is” Despite China being the worlds biggest exporter, Chinas economic growth is more feuled by domestic consumption and investment not exports. The Chinese don’t want or need imports (unless we are talking about low value goods like soy beans from the US). Like many mainstream US economists, this guy doesn’t understand Chinas economy. If he did, he wouldn’t have said that alongside the “horrible labour practices” mantra (meanwhile China has reduced more poverty internally than the whole world combined). Also, blaming China for US deindustrialization because of their devalued currency or labour practices is also a canard. As Mark pointed out regarding his appearances on Dylan Ratigans (once great) show, its Wall Street thats to blame. The US economy financialized decades ago, which is predatory by nature and stifles production, innovation and job growth. Same thing is happening in Canada and all over the west. Still, interesting episode.
I thought the deal struck between the U.S. and China was our businesses move all their factories to China in order to make more stuff for less, wages in China go up (but are still relatively low compared to what American workers demand), Americans get their greedy mouths stuffed full of cheap consumer goods to muffle their complaints about losing their good union jobs, profits of American companies go up, China gets a bunch of foreign investment, and the Chinese are also able to get their hands on American machinery and engineers in order to modernize. And, from a national security perspective, binding our economies together reduces tension, allows for more diplomacy and cultural exchange, and generally makes the world a safer, more stable place. And then, even though it's a great deal for everyone involved, once the guys who struck this deal got too old and retired, their dumbass nepotism-case kids got it in their heads that it's a bad deal because China gets something out of it too, so they dedicated their lives to undoing it. And now they might actually undo it, and it's really going to suck for everyone.
About Chinese labor practices, I really don't think any political leaders anywhere in the world today care a lot about the plight of laborers. And, frankly, American *citizens* might get a better deal than Chinese workers, but it's been a long-term project of the U.S. ruling class to institute slave labor in all but name here in the form of hyper-exploited migrants, refugees, and victims of human trafficking. Not to let the Chinese off the hook, but the idea that America is some champion of workers' rights is hypocritical propaganda BS. And to pull the camera back, in a globalized economy, *everyone* profits off of whoever's being exploited the most. Some countries export suffering onto others in order to mollify restive citizens, and other countries import suffering onto their least liked populations for a profit. Unless and until the workers of the world unite, and stand in solidarity across all lines of color, creed, ethnicity, and nation-state, this rent-seeking bullshit will continue. (Which is to say, the rent-seeking bullshit will continue unabated, just like every other horrible institution, until we finally kill ourselves, because it is impossible to build the necessary amount of solidarity to do anything about it.)
I like the episode pic of Trump at da club
Doin the Kamala
Great episode guys
WAUKEGAN MENTIONED!!!!
My recommendation regarding severe allergies is this: see an allergist. I’ve been getting allergy immunotherapy for a year and a half, and it’s been working great. Your allergist may or may not recommend the same sort of treatment, but it’s useful to get professional medical advice, specifically in allergy and immunology.
Trying to “mad dog” the country whose leader once proclaimed, “China can survive a nuclear strike”. I personally think most of trump’s strategy is to pretend he has deep plans as a cover for the absolute stupid shit he impulsively goes with
Yeah idk I think marks hatred of centrist democrats -which is warranted- makes him say stupid shit about trump regularly. At the end of the day trump views trade deficits as the other country "ripping the us off" which is pretty objectively stupid and divorced from reality. I think it's safe to use the r word on Donald idk why mark thinks he's anything but an imbecile
I’ve heard supply chains are two weeks out from feeling the tariff shock- lot of dipshits about to learn how their beloved “supply and demand” works
Dave Thomas is incorrect to say there are no elections in China. There are elections in China which have very high rates of voter participation.
Jeff stein is the one who said that and he works for the Washington Post. What do you expect lol
John: you want something called "Anthisan" for your mosquito bites, the active ingredient is mepyramine maleate, I'm in New Zealand so no idea if you can find it wherever you are. It's what my skin specialist wife buys for us. Picture here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QJoSVBRHokU3U1ZD7
Goddamn loved Dave Thomas
First track I ever heard was “Breath”. Thought it was just a pop song at first but by the end it gave me the inkling that I had to go deeper.
Well I saw carcass with cannibal corpse. They closed with HAMMER SMASHED FACE and I went Jim Carey mode a la Ace Ventura
https://youtu.be/CFeKucMwnyA?si=VFUb7fZzTUn2qVk_