Radio War Nerd EP #441 — Why Germany Lost the First World War, feat. Mark Karau

I met an old Cockney wallpaper hanger who was a veteran of that Bulgarian campaign from Salonika ('the world's biggest prisoner of war camp' according to German propaganda). He drove a team of horses pulling a piece of heavy artillery through a lot of mud, from what I remember. "They were fierce fighters, them Bulgars, fierce fighters", he said, shaking his head, fiercely.

A bit late to this party but excellent episode. To add my tuppence worth; at the time, the royal houses of Europe were almost all German. Belgium in particular was Saxe-Coburg Gotha, the same as the British one. According to a book I read (the Three Emperors as I recall). Edward Grey was the most pro-German Foreign Sercretary the British had had for ages and even he was pro-war in the end. There are many anecdotes of life working with the Kaiser. Finally, one reason for the final German collapse I heard was to do with the situation in the Balkans. British soldiers withdrawn from Gallipoli and French troops were stationed in Greece, apparently doing very little and being much criticised for it. They were nicknamed the Gardeners of Salonika. They were up against a line contolled by the Bulgarians with some Germans. The German commander begged for re-inforcements from the eastern front but was refused. Under the cover of darkness, the French brought up and concealed many heavy guns. Finally, and attack was launched which allowed French Spahis (North African cavalry) to break through and find there was nothing between them and Berlin. According to Robert Graves, in Goodbye to All That, "it was hunger that broke Jerry" From the sound of this, I marval at the endless capacity of the Germans to be surprised! And they say the British were led by donkeys.

I don't know how pertinent it is, but as a young reporter the American press gadfly George Seldes interviewed Field Marshal Hindenburg on the battlefield when Armistice was declared: "Born in 1890, George Seldes was a young reporter in Europe at the close of World War I. When Armistice Day came, he broke ranks with the obedient press corps and drove behind the lines of retreating German troops. For the rest of his life, he remained haunted by what took place next. Seldes and three colleagues secured an interview with Paul von Hindenburg, the German field marshal. Seldes asked what had ended the war. 'The American infantry in the Argonne won the war,' Hindenburg responded, and elaborated before breaking into sobs. It was an enormous scoop. But allied military censors blocked Hindenburg's admission, which he never repeated in public. The story could have seriously undermined later Nazi claims that Germany had lost the war due to a 'stab in the back' by Jews and leftists. Seldes came to believe that the interview, if published, 'would have destroyed the main planks of the platform on which Hitler rose to power.' But the reporters involved 'did not think it worthwhile to give up our number-one positions in journalism' by disobeying military censors 'in order to be free to publish.'" Seldes's newsletter "In Fact" was religiously followed by the reporting profession, and they agreed that he usually proved right in his assessments. But on one issue they thought he was a little crazy. He had worked out by analyzing medical reports in newspapers that smoking was associated with lung cancer, but when he reported this, nobody believed him! https://jeffcohen.org/docs/mbeat19950712.html

One of the best War Nerd episodes! (mind you I say that about a helluva a lot of them...). The story of the German fleet was completely new to me - I always thought the Battle of Jutland was almost the end of the British navy rather than a bit of a blunder by the Kriegsmarine that was doing all it could not to get its "hair a bit mussed"... Another really interesting source on von Moltke is Correlli Barnett's "The Swordbearers", which describes how the Schlieffen-Moltke plan was almost aborted at the outset, when the British sent a diplomatic note to the Kaiser suggesting they might not go to war if the Germans slowed down their mobilization or something. Von Moltke had to spend hours convincing the Kaiser & the court not to as any disruption would throw all the mobilization timetables out & thousands of trains would simply not be able to move... Apparently von Moltke was so emotionally & morally shattered by the effort that he never really recovered, hence his loss of nerve after the Marne (all this from a very faded memory of the book). Ref also the storm troopers in Germany's 1918 offensive, apparently they got this idea from the Russians, who introduced the tactic in the 1916 Brusilov offensive, when the Russians smashed the Austro-Hungarian army & the Germans had to transfer many divisions from the Western Front to save the day (which gave the Western Entente armies some much needed breathing space). You're going to have to do a show on the the Eastern Front in WW1, one day, guys... Even less well known than the Eastern Front in WW2 (no doubt Annibale is an expert on it, though...).

John, I implore you to be cautious with the netipot. Make sure it's fully sterilized every time you use it, make sure you're using distilled water, properly prepared. It isn't common but you can get a brain-eating amoeba from those things

It never really occurred to me to ask question "Why Germany lost WWI" . I always assumed it was because of manpower and resource shortages. This episode was very illuminating. Great job again, guys and Mark Karau was an excellent guest.

And now we're dunking on the Germans

Bismarck's personal style was apparently a mix of bullying and wheedling. (Kaiser Wilhelm I supposedly once said "Es ist schwer unter Bismarck Kaiser zu sein" - It's hard to be Emperor under Bismarck), and I often feel like his successors thought that this style was why he was such a successful diplomat, as opposed to his keen sense of what his counterparties might want from him.

“why does every ep start with twenty minutes on ailments?” [me five minutes later taking meticulous notes on netipots]

Could you imagine having a state and military so fucking stupid and arrogant?

Anyone else had the rwn feed explode in their app?

Very informative, very well structured. The best parallel with the Ukraine war may be the British loudly cheering on the heroism of an attacked people because it fit so neatly with British interests.

Why are the Germans so utterly convinced that they can take on everyone in the world at the same time and win? Are the English the only people in Europe who understand that you have to deal with your enemies one at a time? It's so baffling to me, even as an American. I mean, we antagonize more people than we should, from a cold-blooded realpolitik imperialist standpoint, but not everyone everywhere all at once.

Good episode. Yeah, I think when people say "the war was always unwinnable given the balance of power between the sides," that tends to gloss over the fact that the "sides" aren't a given, they're contingent. Germany in WWI did NEED to go into war as diplomatically isolated as it did. For that matter, a large part of the reason Germany got as far as it did in WWII was because it was so difficult to get everyone on-sides against them before Barbarossa. And it's not hard to imagine a scenario where Germany is able to survive the war because Churchill pushed through his stupid "let's bomb Baku" idea and poisoned the well on cooperation between the Western Allies and the USSR. I know you tried to avoid drawing parallels this episode, but this is all stuff that looks familiar as the US wills a Russia-China-Iran alliance into existence just by being so tactless and overbearing. Also, one last thought: it's a bit funny that the myth of the undefeated German army was able to persist post-war when you look at any front BESIDES the western front in the fall of 1918 and realize they were all in a state of complete collapse.

Great!

John & Mark! The neti pot thing is only dangerous if you use unclean water. Anywhere you can get distilled water, you're good, & they sell little mass-produced ones with packets of saline rinse (to clear them gunk off'n yr skull holes) at every big pharmacy chain in the USA. I'm sure they'd have an equivalent at whatever CVS and Walgreen's are in Italy (possibly also CVS and Walgreen's, at this late date).

Finally, getting to THE most important geopolitical event since Columbus didn't starve!

Final comment- the sinking of the Lusitania wasn’t what caused the US entry into the war; the senate Nye committee found it was bankers pressuring Wilson to enter, to protect their loans. The Lusitania and the Zimmerman telegram were useful cover for that

Also, Wilson was a naive bitch

Anglos first reaction is to blockade, with questionable effectiveness, dual use products; some things never change

I think I read somewhere that the Schlieffen plan was changed because the northern French road network couldn't support all the troops needed for it?

I can’t remember if it was Barbara Tuchman or Adam Tooze, but Kaiser wilhelm was also a big fan of Alfred mahan’s book, which probably just fed into his desire to make Germany a world power

I love that the sheer stupidity of this lib president, trying to do this 4d chess move, has fucked things up even worse

Brilliant episode. You could tell John was having fun.

Excellent episode - great guest. The stuff about the German navy is hilarious.

There's an excellent book "Blood and Iron: The Rise and Fall of the German Empire; 1871-1918" by Katja Hoyer that covers some of the pre-history of WWI. The contrast between Otto von Bismarck and Kaiser Wilhelm II is really something else.

What a insightful episode! Thank you for finding the fantastic guest. The book is now on my reading list.

I'm a Humboldt alumni, it used to be called Humboldt State University but the consultants got to it, tore all the copper wiring out of the walls, and rebranded it a Cal Poly school

University of $poiled Children (USC)

It’s cultural and genetic. That’s why they always make it to the semifinals of the World Cup and wash out

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam

Just be sure to use distilled water in a neti pot

neti pots: only dangerous if you don't boil the water afresh each time AFAIK! Glad you're getting some relief. Looks like a great episode!

Glad to see this topic!