My Statement on ZR2's Story Content
Hey everyone,
Now that the ZR2 v1.0 update is out, there's been some controversy surrounding the story and one of the ending options as far as the content it portrays.
Warning: This post will contain spoilers to ZR2's ending.
Near the end of the game, there is a Z-Choice that allows you to pick two different fates.
The Fate of Lust portrays the villains dark intentions which includes influencing the heart of Meredith in order to draw out the main character's power in an attempt to claim this power for his own desires. There is a short-lived moment of mild NTR content (kissing) as Meredith loses sight of who she treasures and believes it to be Norman. After defeating Norman, she becomes free of his influence.
The Fate of Passion portrays the villain in a lighter tone, instead choosing to take Meredith, causing the main character to chase after them. The emotional weight of this path is much more light-hearted, created intentionally for players who prefer the story keep a lighter tone.
Both options are canonical and created with the intent to cater to players who want deeper, more intense storytelling as well as players who want the story to stay lighter.
In the past, people have asked me numerous times of my opinion on NTR content, and at those times, my answer was simple: No, I was not interested.
Today, NTR is still a theme that I don't find particularly enjoyable but I do feel like it offers a unique opportunity to tell darker stories in romance games. During development, I wanted to explore ways to make the villain truly despicable. How can I take a villain and make the player despise them in the context of a game centered around romance? Yeah, by exploring 'that' theme as his motivation.
I hesitated to follow through with this idea for quite a while. I knew that I would ruffle some feathers with this decision, but I wanted to leave my comfort zone in story telling and create a villain that truly felt upsetting if players choose to go with that route.
Have my opinions on NTR changed over time? Yes. I am human (Unfortunately). I've been making games for nearly 10 years now. But I wouldn't say they've changed significantly. ZR2 is still largely vanilla in theming. And future updates will remain that way. The rest of the content I have planned for the game is vanilla just like previous updates.
But Zombie's Retreat has always been a story about surviving in a world full of dangerous threats looming around every corner. And ZR1 has tackled similar themes with characters like Jessie and Ann. Meredith's core story is about how Meredith's love for the MC as well as Talia's influence help overcome this threat. The dramatic extent of the villain may have caught people by surprise but this plot point certainly did not come from out of nowhere.
Why am I typing this long-winded essay?
Because over the past few days there have been a few people sending vile messages targeted towards me as a result. Being called a coward, a rat, a ****, etc. I want to address that this isn't okay in the slightest.
But more importantly, there are several people genuinely asking why the story has the choice to play out the way it does when I said I was not interested in NTR theming in the past.
If you pick the Fate of Passion, that "promise" still remains true that there is no NTR content. And that route is intended to be just as canonical as the Fate of Lust should you choose it. I've made this as clear as I possibly can online and within the game. But it's clear that my attempts to cater towards multiple types of players has not worked.
I doubt this post will change anyone's mind. But I feel it's important to share my thoughts since there have been quite a few questions sent in my direction.
From now on, ZR2 will have a content warning that the story contains optional/avoidable NTR themes both on the game's pages and in-game with the next update.
I apologize for not making this more clear early on. I thought having a choice to avoid the content would be a reasonable solution but it's clear that this was not good enough. Of course, refunds can be issued if you are unhappy with your purchase. I will try to handle them all myself but if I miss them, Patreon will step in and confirm the refunds.
This post will have comments restricted to Paid Members only. I don't love doing this. But after seeing the sorts of messages I've had to sift through, I'd rather not do that again.
I will be taking a short break from the internet and will pick back up with some updates about the next ZR2 update soon.
Thanks.
Comments (23)
How can I report the bug
It’s been six years since I first picked up this game, and honestly? It doesn’t really feel like a game anymore, it feels like an old friend. It carved out my entire college life, four solid years. Even after long, exhausting nights in the lab, the moment I saw a new update drop, I’d be too wired to sleep.I still remember the early versions, supplies were always tight. To save food, I left Nadia and Stacy hanging for way too long before rescuing them. The first time I had to make medicine as Meredith, the answer turned out to be hidden in that color card. And when she got bitten by a zombie? I panicked hard (thank God she made it) Then there was that library level with Jenny, I honestly thought the game was bugged until I checked a guide and learned you had to step on the broken glass to lure the zombies away.Maybe this ending was planned from the very first update. Maybe six years ago, you threw Gungnir—and you were aiming straight at my heart today. And now that it’s pierced through, no matter how much I don’t want to let go… I have to walk away.
refund me.
Done
"I respect your artistic vision, but artistic ambition does not exempt a product from the fundamental rules of the market. When you accepted financial backing, you entered a contract to deliver a specific product experience. The introduction of the NTR branch system is a unilateral modification of that contract without prior disclosure. In a capitalist market, this is not 'artistic evolution'—it is a breach of the agreed-upon value proposition. By injecting these narrative elements into a project funded under the premise of a different theme, you have devalued the product for which investors paid. Artistic struggle is a private matter; the moment you take public capital, your primary responsibility is to the integrity of the product and the terms of your agreement. If you wish to experiment with themes that fundamentally alter the core experience, that should have been disclosed and clearly delineated prior to any investment. You cannot use 'artistic expression' as a shield to deflect from the fact that you have failed to deliver the product your investors signed up for."
I think this was an interesting experiment. It’s always a good direction to explore more diverse narrative approaches. That said, for the scenes in the Fate of Lust, building up the outcome through writing and letting players imagine what follows would be more impactful and tactful than showing it outright.
Stay strong Siren, you are doing great work. Don't let those vile people get to you.
I've been following your work since ZR1, and I must say I really enjoyed your game. Now that ZR2 has ended, I still love it just as much. I wish you success in whatever path you choose. You don't need to listen to criticism from people who haven't even read the warnings you wrote in the game. Don't let those things bring you down. I wish you good health, and I will continue to follow your new works.
Just wanted to state I don't like NTR as much as the next guy but I just saw the scene as comedy relief. I chuckled at his entrance with the whole dramatic name pop up and semi stripping of his clothes. Though everyone is different and process games they play differently. I don't comment much (rather at all) I'm more of a paying lurker. I enjoy your work, keep at it. Do what you enjoy. Unless you start dipping toes in gore and stuff, I'd have to pass on that myself but do what you want to do.
While I dislike the content of path of lust you certainly shouldn't receive hate for it. Very sorry that happened and the people doing it are insane. The only thing I will say is I would not be interested in any future games exploring anything further NTR related even as a storytelling element if you are considering doing it in the future.
Even if there was a misunderstanding, anyone sending insulting messages like that was totally uncalled for.
I did the FOL path, just out of curiosity, I, too, am not an NTR fan at all, but the way you did it was not in the "normal" sense of it either. Just kissing her was extremely tame considering how much further you could have taken it. I applaud you for at least trying to please that crowd, and I'm glad you won't be doing too much more of it in the future. I don't need a refund personally. I chose to play out that route, and I am not offended about it one bit.
One I understand it's not for everyone, BUT It's your story, you should write it how you think you want it, I agree with your statement of making Norman T. Reeves a bit more dislikeable by making him kiss Meredith. Optional Ntr is fine, sooooo many other games do it, ntr as punishment for game overs and failures. Now Would they be saying the same if say all the women weren't single and Mc was still doing mc stuff? Rest well, and don't let this get you down.
I love games that give an avoidable ntr path. It really does make the game so much more rewarding having to fight off an ntr antagonist all through out. As an enjoyer of both vanilla and ntr content i was very happily surprised to see that ending included. Would love to see the route expanded on. Thanks for all of your hard work best wishes to you!
Don't listen to those clowns man it just like the first one with the main character finding out the scientist lady doing it with L-001 you gave us a choice see him doing it or don't and she keeps it secret
Damn that’s just sad. Sorry to hear you are dealing with that. I’m not a fan of NTR but honestly i didn’t think it was a big deal. Some people are just sad don’t let it get to you the game was amazing
I hope you're able to get well rested during your time off the internet, sorry that jerkfaces had to poopoo on your creative choices, but don't let that stop your creative flow. Me personally, so long as NTR isn't gratuitous, it's fine 🫂 Not to lead you down a dark path of making Full-On NTR content, but would it be possible to make "implied" NTR Game Over Screens for when the MC is killed by zombies while having a follower? Like, the follower says "Oh no! The Zombies are Cumming!~" as the screen goes black? Or would that be too much? Also, I hope this doesn't come off as gratuitous 😅 (Also make it optional in the settings?)
It is a shame that you as a creator have been put in a position where you need to "defend yourself" because of your work. Personally, I am still in the process of playing ZR2 and haven't gotten to the controversial issue, but whatever the issue is it doesn't justify agression and/or harassment. I think that as an artistic creator you should have the freedom to create whatever stories you want and I am willing to give you 100% of my support to make sure you do. Keep being awesome!
Love your games, and looking forward to what comes next.
Optional NTR will increase story replay value over vanilla wincest game play. Should end with NTR pregnancy if player doesn't switch back to vanilla and get all NTR checks complete. It opens up the slutty wild side of the female characters. Bought it just now.
The creator is actually not a fan of NTR, and the closest it gets is when it was Implied during a specific game over screen. Though I think "a little bit" of implied NTR for Game Over Screens in general would be nice tbh, at least without it being overt NTR, ya know?
People are forgetting something pretty important: This. Is. Just. A fucking. Game. I'm sorry you had to go through that and feeling like you needed to explain yourself and apologize, you made an amazing game for us to enjoy, so about 2 minutes of NTR is something that will ruin it? Fuck no. Yes, the NTR thing triggered me a little bit, but that's it, it's just a game and this is what *I* chose, even given a warning and I stand behind my choices as everyone should. And for anyone who thought sending such messages to Siren is a sane thing to do, you should be ashamed of yourself and get yourself checked, this is literally just a game and it gives you no right to speak to anyone like that. And if you are so "terrified" from NTR... then you are probably the type that will get c***ed and don't wanna face it, so suck it and get some more self confidence instead of throwing your lack of confidence at someone else. Thank you Siren and keep up the good work, hate is everywhere and the hand is always light on the keyboard, don't let it affect your spirit.
As someone who doesn't enjoy NTR, I found this update to be very fun and probably the best way to handle NTR. I very much enjoyed the "twist" when the name becomes NTR. While I didn't like watching the kissing scene I found it to be hardly challenging. I guess people don't interact with this type of content to be challenged any amount. Your work is easily some of the best content I've seen and I'm glad to support. I've seen tons of comments online for other content that ask to make these themes "optional" and for multiple routes. You've done a great job I'm sad to hear that there are people who are willing to go to such measures to hurt you, even if it's only a "threat". I wish you the best and I hope you have a support group that helps you get through this. I'm looking forward to the next project/update.