SHOULD WE PRAY TO JESUS. THE NATURE OF JESUS
Jesus asked his disciples to pray, "Our Father..."
Comments (10)
"...let God be true, but euery man a lier, as it is written..." Hopefully, you will forgive my errors and typos, which, considering the volume of work I've produced, are very few indeed. But, nevertheless I will try to do better. Hebrews 11:27 references Exodus 33: 20-23 " 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see mee, and liue. 21 And the Lord said, Beholde, there is a place by mee, and thou shalt stand vpon a rocke. 22 And it shall come to passe, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rocke, and will couer thee with my hand, while I passe by. 23 And I wil take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my backe parts: but my face shall not be seene." Both passages (Hebrews and Exodus refer to the face of God). I'm not sure if you understand apprehension versus comprehension. Many things in the Bible we accept because God said it; often they defy human logic. We in the 1611 group all believe the Godhead is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thank-you for your comment.
My name is Jake Moran, I'm from Dallas, TX and I believe the AV1611 is the word of God- every letter, every number, every page, every part. I believe that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. I appreciate your videos, (especially the Block/Doerr interview series), and I've listened to several of your Patreon recordings and am nearly finished listening to all of John's lessons on A Lampe in the Dark (almost 18 months of listening). However, after listening to the speaker of this recording, and reading the comments above, the false notion of "apprehension, not comprehension" makes me wonder. If we who believe the 1611 can't agree on who God is, then we can't agree on who Jesus is either. Let me be clear: Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. It should be said aloud by everyone in this group. It's easy to believe this fact if you can believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is The mightie God, The euerlasting Father, The Prince of peace. Doesn't make sense? Quick question: How can invisible things be seen? For the inuisible things of him from the Creation of the world, are clearely seene... Please note: "seen" is spelled as "SEENE" in Romanes CHAP. I. of the the AV1611. ...being vnderstood ... Jesus expects us believers to understand that invisible things should be seen! Didn't Moses see him who is invisible? (Hebrews 11:27) ...by the things that are made, euen his eternall Power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse: • Did God say that we (mortal sinners) can understand eternal things? Yep. • Did God say that we (finite/limited) can understand his ETERNAL Power and Godhead? Yep. • Did God say that we (born flesh and blood) can see things that are invisible? Yep. He sure did. Iohn 14:9 Iesus saith vnto him, Haue I bin so long time with you, and yet hast thou not knowen me, Philip? he that hath seene me, hath seene the father, and how sayest thou then, Shew vs the father? ... Notice the way "seen" is spelled as "SEENE" in the 1611. Philip was actually looking at the visible image of God the Father, in the flesh and blood. Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily. Iob 13:6 Heare now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips. 7 Wil you speake wickedly for God? and talke deceitfully for him? 8 Will ye accept his person? Will yee contend for God? 9 Is it good that hee should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, doe ye so mocke him? 10 He will surely reprooue you, if yee doe secretly accept persons.
Human logic will invariably reject the Godhead. We accept that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God by apprehension, not comprehension.
Often this is a difficult conversation because of semantics.
Agreed. And I think the speaker's understanding about One-ness of God . . no contradictions in the Godhead, pure harmony . . is completely correct. Where I think we believers err is when we desire to reconcile the Godhead concept with the One God concept. You and I have talked about Jorg Glissman's YT channel where he cannot reconcile the Godhead with the concept of One God and now maintains that Jesus was NOT God. Glissman ALSO justifies his position on Jesus' non-divinity by saying that Rome teaches the "trinity" and we must reject the Godhead on that basis. Glissman ALSO refers to the Hebrew Shema Israel song for the premise that God the Father is the One God . . not Jesus Christ the son. The same mistake many Hebrews made when Jesus walked the earth, and they rejected their Messiah. Completely erroneous blasphemy. Along with outright lies, Rome promotes half-truths to destroy faith, with better effect in most cases. We are not believers in "Rome's opposite". We are believers in Jesus Christ . . the Word. We should not engage in Biblical argument on Rome's terms. The reformers who attended the Council of Trent found this out the hard way, specifically on the 'which day is the Sabbath' false debate. The serpent is the most subtle beast ( Gen 3:1). Rather, our response to the temptation to engage with Romish doctrine should be like Jesus' in the desert . . dismissive and to redirect to the Word. (Matthew 4:10) "Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him onely shalt thou serue." Your material has helped me re-learn this lesson :)
What we know about the nature of God is by apprehension, not comprehension.
Perfectly said
Agreed Terence. As always . . the answer is in the Bible. In this case, that answer does not seem to fit within our worldly understanding. We accept it on faith. Our focus needs to remain on Jesus Christ . . because he is the one who saves us.
I respectfully disagree with the conclusion of the speaker in this study. I understand the desire to answer every biblical question. But that is impossible. We can have no idea what God's throne looks like . . let alone "who" is "sitting" on it . . . because we can never fully quantify God or understand his pure righteousness. Paul said it perfectly when he said we see through a glass darkly. That is why we need Jesus. We will only be able to live in God's kingdom (i.e. co-exist with pure righteousness) after Jesus has given us our glorified bodies to allow us to be in God's presence. The "trinitarian" debate should begin and end with . . Jesus is God. When we start trying to define God, we are out of our depth. The Bible very clearly delineates the Godhead . . Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It also very clearly states that God is One. Our faith needs to cancel any dogmatic understanding or worldly logic we try to apply to God's being and this reality as set forward in the Bible multiple times in both ways. Consider Matthew 3: 16-17 . . . . after Jesus is baptized . . .involves all three persons of the Godhead engaged in separate activities at the same time. Jesus is present in the world . . . John sees the Holy Spirit descend like a dove . . and everyone hears the father say "this is my son in whom I am well pleased." So . . are all these three separate manifestations the same person? Is it just Jesus/God pulling a magic trick so he can remain viewed as a man? That reading is impossible. The reason Rome has seized on this issue to push the "trinity" is that Rome wants to destroy faith. It wants to create division and make us choose sides over impossible questions. So . . no . . we shouldn't just believe the opposite of what Rome teaches. That is not proper Bible exegesis. Rome creates these supposed contradictions and arguments in its Bible interpretation to undermine it. We merely play along when we take the opposite to their position without deeper reflection. So what is the "answer"? How about . . we have faith that the Bible is true. Lie flat on our faces and be humble. This is one of many areas . . perhaps the most obvious area . . where God's understanding vastly surpasses our own.
Roy, Appreciate your perspective. I do not think this can be fathomed by a man’s mind. Not even every brilliant mind that ever existed combined or even every angel that exists minds combined cannot understand. They are all fellow servants of the Most High. In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darknesse, and the darknesse comprehended it not. I do also see the design of the conflict of disagreeing with each other as you say. However I am so ignorant. I am realising just how ignorant I am every single day that I hear the Word of God. The angel had it right. And when I sawe him, I fell at his feete as dead: and hee laid his right hand vpon me, saying vnto mee, Feare not, I am the first, and the last.