INSTITUTING THE DEATH PENALTY FOR MURDER. EXAMINING THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION.
First we discuss the death penalty for murder, and how a society that does not exact a death penalty for murder is bound to sink into further depravity and ultimately its demise. We discuss the pre flood world in that context. Then, John gives a lesson on the corruption in the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and how the NWT matches the Roman Catholic Bibles. Please follow John's message with the attached pdf.
Comments (14)
I believe God marked Cain for HIS judgement. The mark, either way, would at least seemingly tend to repel people.
No wonder so many people don’t believe in the Bible if there are so many translations and modern apostate scholarly commentaries to sift through. There is no standard and it all boils down to whatever man’s word you believe the most. I was visited by JWs a few weeks ago. I wasn’t very prepared to talk to them, but I read the passages to which they were referring in a 1611 and gave a little basic reaction to what I thought it meant to my faith, and then I gave them a little card for accessing more resources on the true words of God in the 1611. I hope I didn’t turn them off. It’s just amazing to me how obviously made up a lot of modern religious teaching seems to me now. The general lesson I usually drew from the stories of Cain and Noah and such is that God is demonstrating how transgression just leads to more and more evil, with vengeance being repaid with vengeance, or justice in other terms.
Hi Thomas, Apart from the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, we would not be able to tell what's true. Sadly, many call themselves Christians, but are not, and therefore do not have the Holy Ghost. We too were like that once, so we must continue to pray for them and let God do the work.
I knew a man who would do anything he could get away with. When he was caught sexually victimizing a woman, he was terrified what might happen to him. The only thing stopping him from going on a sexual rampage was the law and the consequence of his actions. Still, if he saw opportunity and thought he could get away with it, he would do it.
My biblical understanding is that the death penalty would certainly be justified in this case to which you refer. God's judgment of Sodom supports this. The outrage at Gibeah and the ensuing destruction of the Benjamites also supports this (. . although the Levite's conduct was reprehensible to me.) In fact, if the guilty Benjamites had been punished by their tribe . . the broader destruction of the tribe would have been averted. There seems to be a point where God no longer suffers the failure of men to administer justice against individuals among them . . and visits his wrath on broader society. This certainly supports your conclusion on the necessity of proper administration of a death penalty for certain sins. There is also the case of the Rape of Dinah . . which, at first glance, seems to be an excessive reaction by Jacob's sons . . however, it cannot be denied that broader Canaanite society was just as sinful as Sodom. Shechem raped Dinah. This was a sin punishable by death even though Shechem offered to marry her. Shechem could not be the judge of his own crime. Hamor, Shechem's father, sought to mediate and protect Shechem from judgment. But, when Hamor did not judge Shechem properly, Jacob's sons devised a scheme to exact justice themselves. It cannot be denied that God's wrath was visited upon Hamor, Shechem, and all of the Canaanite men in Hamor's city for the rape. Jacob later fretted that the actions of his sons would bring destruction on his family that lived in Canaan and needed to interact with the locals. But it didn't. Many have speculated that the reaction of Jacob's sons to Dinah's rape was excessive and motivated by revenge. But I am not convinced by this . . and the AKJV does not talk about revenge as a motive. The Canaanite men agreed to be circumcised . . but their offer was for Jacob's people to become part of THEM . . not necessarily to repent. I think the extreme reaction of Jacob's sons to the Rape of Dinah can be seen as a powerful Biblical statement against syncretism i.e. conforming God's ways with those of the world. Jacob's sons do not escape the episode as righteous and unscathed, however, because, after they kill all the Canaanite men, they plunder their possessions. (2 Corinthians 6:17 ". . touch not the unclean thing"). Perhaps this was what troubled Jacob the most. He later rebukes Simeon and Levi (the leaders of the violence) on his deathbed.
Without codification of the law, there is nothing firm to follow. Thus, God spelled out the law after the flood.
Lesser point here. .but I think the pre-flood existence and survival of Noah and his family is Biblical proof that the "law" . . at least God's law that is written on our hearts . . has always been in existence. There is always a remnant in the world. Clearly God's law was not followed by the vast majority of pre-flood civilization. . and there was not likely not any civil authority that attempted to administer God's law. Your points were focused on this reality. But there were some lawful people who lived before the flood . . Methusaleh for example . . Adam and Eve themselves, Abel . . the line of Seth . Almost all of these righteous ones, except Noah and his family (probably not Ham), died before the rain started.
The law was written in our hearts, not meaning the entirety of the Mosaic Law.
I think your take on why Cain was spared is excellent . . and one that I had not focused on. Clearly, God wanted Cain to live as a BAD example of how sin ruins your life. Although it is pure speculation, the "Mark of Cain" could have been something as simple as his constant shame at killing his brother and defying God. Clearly he was accursed and wandered about. Maybe everyone he encountered asked about his family and background . . and he was too ashamed to give any details. Or they knew who he was and what he had done. People would have been uneasy around Cain for the remainder of his life . . his "mark" . . because his origin was either secret or he was a known murderer. The Devil, not God, was his father (John 8:44). . again, the "mark" . . and that may have been better known when there were fewer people on the earth.
is there a reason we aren't linking Cain's mark to the mark in revelation? it's just an unchecked assumption on my part though
You always pick the easy ones Reg! Noncontroversial. (Ok . . Ok . . my sarcasm off/joking aside. ) So many ways to go here . . but I will try. My skeptic worldly acquaintances have told me many times . . . the "God of the Old Testament" will kill you for "everything", including: murder (Exodus 21:12), kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), bestiality (Exodus 22:19), adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5), prostitution and rape (Deuteronomy 22:24), and several other sins. And Jesus told us that hating without a cause/mocking our brother is murder (Matthew 5: 21-22 :21 "Yee haue heard, that it was saide by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill: and, Whosoeuer shall kill, shalbe in danger of the iudgement. 22But I say vnto you, that whosoeuer is angry with his brother without a cause, shall be in danger of the Iudgement: and whosoeuer shall say to his brother, Racha, shal be in danger of the counsell: but whosoeuer shall say, Thou foole, shalbe in danger of hell fire; also see 1 John 3:15 "15Whosoeuer hateth his brother, is a murtherer, and yee knowe that no murtherer hath eternall life abiding in him.) So, even though you distinguished John's comment here . . I think he has a point that none of us will escape God's penalty of death without Jesus Christ. In this regard, it is of note that three of the greatest names in the Bible . . . Moses, David, and the Apostle Paul . . were guilty of murder (in God's eyes) during their lives. And yet, so much of what we know about God's law . . including the death penalty for sin . . comes from their writings. From a worldly perspective, it may be possible to distinguish David's and Paul's murderous acts . . given that, technically, Uriah the Hittite died in battle, and Paul (as Saul) was acting under the authority of the Sanhedrin while persecuting Christ's followers. Moses' killing . . while more spiritually justifiable . . was more likely than David's and Saul's acts to be considered murder from a worldly perspective . . . killing an Egyptian in defense of a Hebrew. From the authority of MANY verses, however, I agree with you that a worldly/civil authority death penalty IS justifiable by the Bible. Is it spiritually justifiable? Jesus himself rebuked those trying to carry out the death penalty . . unrighteously . . against the prostitute (John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, hee lift vp himselfe, and saide vnto them, Hee that is without sinne among you, let him first cast a stone at her."). My understanding is that Jesus knew that the men attempting to stone the prostitute were guilty of the SAME sin of adultery as the prostitute, not that they were merely born into sin. But Jesus also proclaimed the coming destruction of Jerusalem . . so he was not against a RIGHTEOUS sentence of death. Man's vengeance is never spiritually justifiable (Deut 32:35; Romans 12:19). The fact that many deserving of death escape a worldly death penalty is just more proof that man can not adequately govern themselves without God/Jesus Christ. We need our Savior. Hebrew law even allowed for "cities of refuge" whereby those deserving of death penalty could escape and seek to repent to save themselves. Another Old Testament precursor to Jesus' coming. These are all just issues to ponder on this topic. We are ALL worthy of death without Jesus Christ . . as John pointed out.
I do volunteer research on suspected wrongful conviction cases for an innocence organization and sometimes for private attorneys, and our corrupt legal system definitely secures convictions of innocent people, far too often, sadly. I've had a role in the exoneration of a few, and I know of people who were proven innocent after their executions. So we can't trust man to impart the death penalty with certainty of guilt, that's for sure.
Indeed all roads lead to Rome. The Iter road is a metaphor for how the world actually works. And, it is the simplest answer for what appears to be a very confusing world.
Truely fascinating how all roads lead to a certain location... That is why no-one believes it. However if you apply Occam's razer it all just fits nicely in place. (Someone wrote a book about that...)