Episode 148 -- JD Vance's Communion with Jamelle Bouie
Weird troll and sitting Vice President JD Vance's last memoir, 2016's Hillbilly Elegy, made him a household name and a darling with some surprising corners of American letters and politics. His new memoir-slash-retread, Communion: Finding My Way Back to Faith reheats the Elegy-pie to massively diminishing return, and is likely to endear him to just about no one. In this episode, Moira and Adrian talk to New York Times columnist Jamelle Bouie about the book and the strange and deeply resistible rise of JD Vance.
Comments (36)
Wait....Vance says he doesn't go to mass and does it at home instead....but that's not actually allowed in Catholicism, is it?? (Or, rather, that's not actually a mass then, right?)
It's really unclear to me what he means by "Mass" at home (mostly because I haven't read his book and never will). You can definitely bring communion to people in their homes, but this is usually only done if they are ill, physically disabled, in the hospital or in hospice, etc. And as you point out, it's not a Mass in that case - it's usually just the Eucharist, which only a part (though an important one!) of a full service. More broadly. . . There's a pretty strong through line in the New Testament, and especially in the Gospels, that being Christian and practicing Christian faith inherently requires being part of a community! Like it's not spelled out as a commandment in those exact words, but it's hard to see how "By this everyone will know you are my disciples, if you love one another" when you are . . . explicitly not interacting with any of the other people in the community you claim to have joined. I'm not sure I have much to add to your point, except to say that I agree and that JD Vance continues to be a giant fucking weirdo in literally every area of his life.
As Bouie pointed out, it seems that our least favorite President has a sort of animal cunning, even if he's far from being the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I think that animal cunning is what made him pick Vance as a running mate. I believe Donnie's intuition told him that Vance would have zero charisma with MAGA cult followers -- or anyone else for that matter -- so having him as his VP would mean that GOP legislators would probably be *VERY* reluctant to remove Donnie from his perch (through impeachment OR article 25 proceedings), no matter how bad things get.
Gonna have to disagree with the jab at centrists for being the ones who view swing voters as “hogs”. Who are the ones saying that the reason Harris lost is because swing voters are too sexist and racist to accept a black woman as president? Not centrists. Who’s elevating “electability candidates” of the likes of Graham Platner, where the only theory of “electability” is that he’s a gruff white guy? Also not centrists. It was very interesting to watch the progressive Platner stans twist themselves in knots over Platner’s successive controversies, until it ultimately became too much. The Reddit posts were an “asset”, the Nazi tattoos showed “evolution”. What theory of the electorate does that suggest? And as it turns out, the median voter just might actually think that racism, naziism, and domestic violence are bad - and also that “woke 1” was bad. The Platner-apologists were clearly trying to moderate through the whole debacle, but their choice of where to give leeway to Platner reflects a completely upside-down view of the median voter.
I don’t think JD knows how to have fun but I remember seeing an interview where JD said his favorite song was fade into you by mazzy star and it completely ruined mazzy star for me…
This is probably niche (not sure how many Orthodox Christians there are in the audience lol) but I almost lost my mind at the BRIEF mention of Rod Dreher and The Benedict Option - IS NO PLACE SAFE FROM F-ING ROD DREHER?????
Um, I am also named Kathryn and was raised Orthodox!
I enjoyed the discussion, appreciated the little sprinkle of Wendy Brown, and am overall convinced enough by the analysis to be annoyed at one's manifest duty to concede that this...individual...probably does in fact have an inner life. I dunno about the "not personally a racist " part, though. In my experience, a lot of white people with nonwhite partners (a) think they have a pass to (b) believe in and promulgate baroque multidimensional racial hierarchies.
I loved this. Despite the torrent of memes making fun of Vance he isn’t called out enough. But why no mention of the bell hooks rip off? He might not be racist and just an opportunist, but this deserves analysis! He’s truly disgusting.
Jamelle and Moira knocked this one out of the park. Emotional intelligence maxxing. JD, Barack and Tricky Dick. But have to agree with Jacob: it’s ’Apple-atcha’, folks! Not that hard! I give everyone a pass on my last name but not Appalachia.
JD Vance’s audience are Californians who move to Idaho. California republicans who think they are better than Idabillies and also better than California liberal excess. Source: my parents. They grew up poor and then became middle class because of their hard work (oh yeah and their government jobs) and retired in Idaho. My mom likes JD. She isn’t a MAGA repub. I think they see JD as sensible compared to Trump
Thanks for the shout out to Brecht! "The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui" is an apt reference for this odious figure. Emphasis on RESISTIBLE.
I didn't read it but the thought crossed my mind that instead of assuming the target audience is regular voters, bc it is his opening bid for candidacy, perhaps the real target demographic is donors. When he's being condescending it is to the poors (i.e. the voters). The donors think highly of themselves that I don't think they would ever lump themselves in with any "we" that is being referred to with any negativity or derision.
I've been waiting for anyone from the "I read this shitty book so you don't have to" podcast camp to present this book to me and seemingly no one wanted to touch this one with a ten foot pole. But if anyone had to suffer through it for my enjoyment, I'm very grateful it was you guys.
The Conspirtuality podcast also did an episode on it (if you wanna hear more folks dunking on Vance) https://www.conspirituality.net/episodes/314-jd-vance-rebrands-as-church-dad-for-prez
I hate being a bitch about pronunciations, but as 1 of probably 3 listeners in Appalachia, the "ch" sound is the same made in the word church. You'll get laughed out of the mountains if you pronounce it like a Frenchman. (Also, they are the Apal-Chin mountains in most of the native langs in the area, so Anglicizing a hard ch makes more sense than the soft ch of French)
Tagging onto this comment to say that Beijing should also have a hard "j" (per Mandarin)! There's a tendency for Anglophones to pronounce non-English names using French rules, probably because it "sounds more foreign that way" 🙃
I listened to this at 1 am, so I’ll have to give it a second go while not falling asleep. But! I thought it would be interesting to share the Cincinnati perspective on Vance, as someone who’s lived here for 7 years. Basically the entire time he’s been a prominent figure there’s been a sense of contempt at the ways in which he poses and the ways in which he denies his connection to us. We know people like him far too well. Middletown is close by, and many, many people here have a grandparent who moved from Appalachia. Middletown is a former rust belt city. That’s what’s shaping him, not the Appalachia thing. These days, there’s a combination of grudges. The most petty is that OUR STREETS GET SHUT DOWN FOR HIM ALL THE TIME. He’s always on vacation, back visiting Cincinnati. While of course not claiming Cincinnati! And no, no one was particularly impressed by his conversation to Catholicism. This is a deeply Catholic city, and again, the sense was that he was acting like a Protestant. I am not Catholic, and I don’t live in his neighborhood, so I don’t know what the reception would be at either of the Catholic churches near him. There’s also the Maronite Catholics nearby, but I think I could actually pin that reception down. One of the benefits of living in our city is the gorgeous Catholic churches. At least attend mass in one!
Updating this to say that there is a church in the Cincinnati metro area affiliated with the Society of St. Pius V that does mass exclusively in Latin, as I was reminded of when taking the bus home from Quaker meeting. So he could even attend with the tradcath freaks if he wanted. Obviously, I’m glad he doesn’t, because that would interfere with me going to Quaker meeting. https://www.iccnorwood.com
Storytime: I have met someone who has read this book and thought it contained the key to alleviating the malaise of the contemporary voter and the key to Vance winning the next presidential election! Yes, really! I was flabbergasted, too. Even more strikingly, I met this guy (of course it's a man) at a meeting of the local chapter of a storied European social democratic party (which is currently in the dog house with voters, but which storied European social democratic party isn't...)
I am so white so apologies in advance but literally every time JD comes up in my life I have to yell to euphoria by kendrick lamar like i just hate everything about his fancy butthurt little spiritually weak ass. Unmarried two cats and i have a rich life every single day he can suck my dick
It's episodes like this where I feel less that I'm supporting independent journalism & analysis and more that I'm paying firefighters to go in and shovel radioactive material for 12 seconds at a time at great personal cost
It’s a tough job, but somebody’s got to do it.
Weird choice for someone to share communion with, but OK.
Wow, is my grandmother a "Heritage American" since her Spanish colonizer ancestors were in New Mexico at least as far back as the 18th century?
Yes. Arguably most of the families in my part of the country (desert Southwest) are more heritage American than your average white person, since some of them can trace their Spanish ancestry in the region back to the 17th century (or, very rarely, 16th).
still listening (it’s great) but re: the part of the discussion on how vance chose which part of the christian tradition to hone in on…thinking in terms of american history, kind of a world historical bag fumble for the episcopal church (tradition of the founding fathers and the gilded age robber barons alike!) to not corner the market in “evil american conservatives with an intellectual streak”. i mean, granted, i’m also grateful (we’re already stuck with tucker carlson) it’s just…interesting when you think about american christianities in terms of messaging and branding. anyway, great episode, only thing missing is john ganz.
also he prefers “flipping the couch cushions” to going to mass yeah i bet he does
loved this episode but I do have a specific comment for y'all here & it's really to your credit, as I think you steelman Vance a bit: JD Vance is not an intelligent man, profoundly so. I see him and know him because I am very nearly him in so many ways. cis white dude with a blue collar (dare I say 'white trash?') background & a chip on his shoulder about "elites" & "high society." in so many ways, JD is me in a fun house mirror. I do think I'm a better liar - and I definitely am more self aware - but it's a "there but for the grace of god go I" whenever I think about him / people like him. I've been writing & promptly deleting sentences here that are just me trying to convince myself of our differences, but that only speaks to how they're vanishingly few & far between. Vance is what you get when you take someone (rather too much) like me and remove all potential empathy, self awareness, and make 'em really mean & self centered, thirsting for avarice & power. I'm no saint, far from it, but I see him and I know we have far more in common than we have in difference. shit keeps me up at night. frankly, it's a horrorshow.
JD Vance is indeed a profoundly stupid man. He is also a staggeringly un-self-aware one. If it helps, Dear Internet Stranger, it does not seem to me that you suffer from either of those problems. Far from it, in fact.
Oh lord, I misread the episode title due to lack of italics and thought I'd somehow missed news of Janelle Bouie simping for JD Vance... Just about lost my last shred of faith in humanity...
I misread it as some kind of seance
i haven't listened yet, but THANK YOU for dropping this as i was debating sending my crush a possibly poorly thought out text 😅 the notification distracted me long enough to think better of it
Yesssss the Jamelle IBWTR debut hell yeah
I WOULD GIVE ALMOST ANYTHING FOR A JAMELLE JOHN MOIRA AIDRIAN COLLAB ON VIENNA BY RICHARD COCKETT
Oh hell yeah what an episode drop notification to get