Episode 137 -- Catching Up with the Cinema of Cancellation

Keanu in Always Be My Maybe (Ali Wong) is peak deliciousness. We are agreed : he must be protected. Mostly he’s not great (My Own Private Idaho is an exception) but we love him anyway.

I often find podcast episodes give me earworms and this one's was Blame it on the Girls by Mika https://open.spotify.com/track/5HWVpUfQaK3anCJ4Eq4urP?si=_qM_VA5HQbKOtrxwSf7Evw

This may be a little out of scope for you but I’ve recently rewatched “God’s Not Dead” and watched for the first time the fourth (halp) movie in that series, and it’s really interesting as a sort of dendrochronology of the radicalisation of evangelicals: the first movie (pre-Tromp) is so blatantly propaganda, but you can see how they were still figuring out their talking points and had to obfuscate a bit more… by the fourth movie (post-Tromp), it’s so much more blatant. What really got me on this rewatch is that the first movie credits end with a list of legal cases “where university students and campus ministries” that “inspired” the movie… and the first three listed were all cases where a student was anti-queer (one was a counselling student who said that if a queer young person came to her for help, she would refer them to a conversion therapist)… which isn’t even remotely a theme of the movie! I think it’s interesting to see media that is made by and for the faithful, partly because it’s so funny (they are, fundamentally, badly made in every respect), but also because it’s edifying to see what they tell each other when we’re not around. Anyway, in case you haven’t seen enough terrible movies..! Maybe we could do a Patreon watch-party to make it more bearable 🤪

As a Marcuse scholar, I was happy to hear his concept of repressive tolerance getting a shoutout! It's such a useful concept, and yet so frequently invoked only in right-wing circles to mischaracterize leftists as crypto-authoritarian wokescolds who want to cancel anything fun or freethinking. I was wondering if you have read A.J.A. Woods' new book on the Cultural Marxism Conspiracy or have any thoughts about the Frankfurt School's function in the paranoid right-wing imagination, especially when it comes to Marcuse, who seems to be the puppet master of the sexual revolution in their minds.

Friends, I’m ready to empty out my savings account so I can pay Moira to watch and discuss Industry. It’s incredible television. It’s all gas, no brakes. Absolutely no fluff, no filler, entire season worth of material put in a single episode. The themes are dark, the show is unbelievably fun. Most importantly- smacks of gender. And class. And race.

Seems I'm the only one to have been sucker-punched by Adrian's Clive Cussler reference. Still not entirely recovered.

I’m autistic and think Rooster is trying to portray Steve Carrell’s character as autistic rather than as someone who is still trying to grow up. Doesn’t mean his awkward behaviour like the dance are excused by that, but I think it’s an important lens through which to analyze that character and his interaction with students and his colleagues.

I'm still enjoying the episode but I wanted to pop in with my televised (xanax? valium? I've never taken either) recommendation: Gardeners' World on BritBox. It's incredibly soothing to watch people talk about plants and gardening. It's been on tv for over 50 seasons, so there is a lot of it.

Gagging for the Lenasode!!!

I once asked guy at Hollywood DMV if he had celebrity stories and he said most actors skip the line but Keanu Reeves came in for license renewal and waited patiently while reading a book.

I watched the first episode of Rooster with my relatively normie family and we all disliked it— support for Adrian’s theory that the general public is just not buying these cancel culture stories anymore.

I'm going to admit, (don't take my smart-lady card, please) I enjoyed the Rooster. I laughed. And I can watch Danielle Deadwyler do anything. I just love the way she delivers lines. "Bumbling" in an idyllic setting seem to set a scene for me to not analyze it as much as I normally do. Another "movie" pod show idea: I just watched Running Man (so close to being good, but confused-ideology and dialogue terrible). I felt Hunger Games did a much better job doing the basic same plot. But I feel like the gender difference in these 2 leads, and the show was stark. And Hunger games got some of the community aspect, that is so important in a repressed society. Running Man was making small little gestures to the "union man" star, but he was more like a individualistic ("toxic masculinity") guy relying on smart "survivalist-style" who were all men. I was yelling at this show.

I find it hard to imagine that anyone would watch Tar and find their sympathies on Lydia Tar's side. Then again, maybe I don't know many people with institutional power. As someone who has been a member of relatively prestigious musical groups (concert and festival choirs), my feeling is that the film pretty accurately skewers the self-aggrandizement, abusiveness, and protection of power that permeate leadership ranks in much of the Western classical music world. I come away very unambiguously disgusted by all of that, and I'd think most viewers would too. What I feel to be the film's greatest failure is that it also has nothing but derision for music and culture OUTSIDE of the Western classical tradition. The ethnomusicology that opens the film, the unbelievably stupid confrontation with the student about Bach in the middle (seriously, no Julliard student would cancel Bach using those arguments), and the Monster Hunter concert at the end, are all presented on a spectrum between incomprehensible and laughable. With classical music hopelessly corrupted, and other music hopelessly unserious, the film is ultimately just purely cynical about the state of music-making as a social (institutional) endeavor. Which I find to be an even sadder statement than simply taking Lydia Tar's side.

Keanu in Dracula defence squad! rise up!

Sorry Baby immediately become one of my favorite movies when I saw it. It's such a good film - even feeling the tension Moira pointed too.

This is the not the first time a host has let out a paint-peeling laugh at the thought that antisemitism is real. Donegan said that *any* reference to antisemitism is clearly a reference to the crushing of pro-Palestine protest on campus.... which is only true if you know nothing about the 6,000 year history of Jews that preceded Israel. There are well-renumerated antisemites in government, in media, in sports, and beyond. To pretend otherwise is, truly, to get in bed with the right.

I would love to know how you guys felt about “Vladimir” (the book and the Netflix series)?

I mostly enjoyed The Rooster, but it definitely depicted a different reality from the one we live in. I loved the music, but then again, I'm old GenX, so it was made for me--but that's another way it's kind of out of time. By the way, Steve Carell has been doing some interesting dramatic roles recently, and he's been really good in them, even when the material isn't great.

Im glad you brought up Sorry Baby as a point of contrast for this genre of films. While I do see the criticism about erasing the abuser from that film, it seems like an unfortunate tragic reality that often low level abusers, far from celebrity status, can just slink away into the corner (another university) and never face consequences. Also by not choosing to show repercussions, the film opts to show the viewer the victims experience (which seems to be missing from these other cancellation films). That being said maybe a campus sex-pest revenge slasher film would blow up the box office

I have to go back and watch Tar again, as in my memory of it, Lydia Tar was painted as quite the monster. Yes, her accusers are not depicted very positively either, but she seemed very worthy of some form of justified cancellation. But it's been a while and I only saw it once.

My idea of engrossing is very different than Moira's I guess because I would not watch Ted Lasso while only half paying attention and on my phone. I really liked that show.

I do enjoy getting a peak into Adrian’s Seinfeld passion based on how often he references moments in Seinfeld episodes

I only have a lovely story about Keanu Reeves...while he was filming The Matrix in Sydney he was in the line to buy groceries with my friend's mum, who was a tiny grey-haired ball of energy who had no idea who he was. She heard his accent and struck up a conversation with him, asking him why he was in Australia. He said it was for work and she said she hoped he got some relaxation time and then told him all the best snorkelling spots locally. At the end of the conversation she looked down at the weetbix he was buying, grabbed his bicep and told him "you look like a ten weetbix boy" before heading out to the rest of her family who had been watching the interaction in horror. She said he was a nice guy so I also hope I never find out that he isn't.

Greg jenner a historian in the uk wrote a book on the history of fame called "dead famous" which traces fame and celebrity back centuries :)