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February 6, 2025

Rodrigo Borgia (with Patrick Wyman)

Our favorite historian and host of The Tides of History podcast joins us to ask and answer a question that's been on our minds since we started the show: Are popes mayors? The answer is: Kind of!

To do so, we talk through the Pope's very mayor-like role during specifically the Renaissance, and the most mayor-like pope of them all, Rodrigo Borgia aka Pope Alexander VI. Now pull out your sword, and get to stabbin'!

Also, if you're on the west coast of America, why not catch Mattie on tour next week!

Comments (39)

A
Australian Estuary Pirate · May 6, 2026

Of coarse November assumed it's a swingers thing, lol.

A
Australian Estuary Pirate · May 5, 2026

I misheard "the papacy is the juice" as "the papacy is the Jews" and thought this was some hardline Baptist reference of something, lol.

N
NowhereMan661 · April 29, 2026

It's important to know that every time a Cardinals "nephew" is mentioned, that's not their nephew, that's their illegitimate son.

N
NowhereMan661 · April 28, 2026

It's hilarious how the family beef in Romeo and Juliet is not at all an exaggeration for how life was like in Italy at that time.

V
Vaiva · July 7, 2025

God this guest is such a nerd🙄

B
Bex · November 11, 2025

He fits with the pod perfectly.

D
DrJKL · July 5, 2025

"Imagine you're building a golden dome"

T
Twi · July 2, 2025

your own. personal. simony

N
Nina · May 8, 2025

relistening to this today in celebration of the new pope

J
James Butler · February 17, 2025

The look of shock on my face when November casually mentions the Legionaries of Christ who ran the school I went to from 8th grade to 12th----great episode. Going to listen to Patrick's podcast now

M
Minna Ihalainen · February 11, 2025

Oh wow can't wait for the next municipal roundup. Mayors truly are teflon and Istanbul is always the first stop.

B
BluetoothThePirate · February 7, 2025

So there's been a lot of extra mayoral media appearances logged in the podcast so far, would you say that being the villain of an Assassin's Creed game is higher on the hierarchy than a guest spot on CHIPS but lower than a Turkish romantic comedy?

S
Syzygy · February 7, 2025

Northernmost Caribbean City is a nickname that already belongs to New Orleans. I nearly threw my Walkman across the gym when Patrick said that about Miami

N
Noblese Oblahaj · February 7, 2025

Mussolini could have been a mayor, but he performed badly at the poles

N
Noblese Oblahaj · February 7, 2025

All these boomer economists writing articles about how millennials are killing the stout trading ship industry

r
roland00 · February 7, 2025

so I google this guy after hearing the description, and the actors they had played him look nothing like the descriptions. *laughs*

Z
Zagreuses-toast · February 7, 2025

This new knowledge is putting Romeo and Juliet in a new light for me now. Italians were just doing that shit in the Renaissance huh

J
John Leavitt · February 6, 2025

🎵let’s have a conclave/ A conclave motherfucker/ I’m gonna make you Pope/ Let’s have a conclave/ Uh huh🎶

M
Mildly invested · February 6, 2025

Well I would say right up till the early modern period a bishop was analogous to a contemporary mayor and since the pope is bishop of Rome this tracks

M
Mildly invested · February 6, 2025

Also considering that puppet state he was in charge of before his death I would say Mussolini counts as a mayor too

A
Anggg · February 6, 2025

Wait, wasn’t the constantian gift a fake document?

J
Jeff · February 6, 2025

You are aware the root 'nepos' literally means nephew...?

A
Akileese · February 6, 2025

I love that Patrick was given an outlet to discuss how insane the Renaissance was.

V
Vanessa P · February 6, 2025

nepheudalism

V
Vanessa P · February 6, 2025

Just had a searing mental image of a talented Brescian gunmaker getting mad at someone, constructing a makeshift musket within seconds, shooting the guy, throwing the gun into a river, dusting his hands, and walking away

Z
Zach Sampson · February 6, 2025

I think the football player y'all were thinking of is Antonio Cromartie. He has 14 known kids and an unknown amount out there

d
duckyaisha · February 6, 2025

finally have some expertise to add to an episode: pour one out for rodrigo borgia who died of malaria, very sad, not mentioned in the episode, etc

H
Hedrigal · February 6, 2025

Did not realize that the Pope being in Avignon effectively restored the Roman Republic.

c
cavira cavidura · February 6, 2025

So now that we figured out that popes aren't mayor's because of various reasons I raise the question: what about bishops?

H
Hedrigal · February 6, 2025

The holy Roman prince bishops are definitely mayors.

N
Nemo · February 6, 2025

"A Pope's nephew dies twice; the second time like all men, the first time when his uncle dies."

M
Marjorie Zeager · February 6, 2025

Well if fictional mayors are on the table, I'd like to submit The Mayor from Homestuck

B
Borangehat · February 6, 2025

Great early career with Can Town, but his later political endorsements were naïve.

G
Gil the Gilded Dragon · February 6, 2025

Crack is derived from Coca, coca was a favored additive to papal wine. Egyptians weren't doing crack, they were doing Zoroastrian Haoma ie Meth USA Rome is Salt Lake City (theocratic, has imperial ambitions, cyclopean architecture, very clique-y elite, polytheist, unfriendly to Catholicism, built among hills) Wait... the donation of Constantine is a 9th century document. It isn't late antique in the least Edit: omg yes fucking Christ's Legion. prosperity gospel evangelical calvinism but Catholic

G
Gil the Gilded Dragon · February 6, 2025

May I introduce you to Simony 3.0; we have crypts, we have non fungible relics, we have the mitre verse

J
Jordan Minehan · February 6, 2025

The Nate Bethea extended universe is mostly befuddling history riffs and Patrick Wyman guest appearances now. I couldn't be more happy.

S
Shiv · February 6, 2025

No Patrick on MOOD this week: 😾 Yes Patrick on NGNM this week: 😻

M
Maggie+Al · February 6, 2025

Surely this is a slippery slope that lets you do everyone from Lee Kwan Yew to Sulla?

m
miramask · February 6, 2025

3 AM going back for more mayor hell yeah