Should we display ads on HDRI Haven?
Hey all, I've done some research into the possibility of displaying a few unobtrusive ads on HDRI Haven using Google AdSense.
Before you throw me under the bus, understand this is just an idea and I'm now reaching out to you to hear your thoughts before proceeding with any decision.
At the moment HDRI Haven is completely ad-free. This decision was made early on for three reasons:
I don't like ads. I use an adblocker myself, and I hate the fact that they've become the defacto monetization method for nearly everything on the internet.
I think that if we put ads on HDRI Haven, a notable portion of newcomers will believe that this is how we earn our income, and thus be less likely to become a Patreon supporter.
Originally I believed (based on past experience) that ads don't make a lot of money, so accepting donations on Patreon is a better way to go.
The first two reasons haven't changed, but after some research and number crunching I've estimated that displaying one or two unobtrusive banner ads on certain pages will result in approximately an additional $1000-$2000 per month from ad revenue.
Add this to the Patreon donations and that's an increase of about 50%, which would significantly help us produce higher value HDRIs and expand the platform.
For the second reason (ads discouraging donations), I think it's still valid, however we can counter it by enabling an ad-free experience for all patrons, which has been proven a successful idea in the mobile apps world (paying a small amount to remove ads). This way, I think the patrons gained from those who become a patron just to remove ads may balance out those that are lost.
Finally, if we do implement ads, there will be absolutely no attempt to discourage the use of adblockers, and the ads will be implemented in a way that does not affect performance and load times on the site. There will be no popups or ad-gates that prevent access to any content, just some simple banners or boxes that don't get in the way.
So I'm torn two ways about this.
On one hand, I hate ads, and I feel like it's an easy way to anger our community and be perceived as being greedy, which could hurt us in the long term.
On the other hand, the additional income would help us progress our craft. Sergej and Andreas are both currently experimenting with new techniques (flexible flare reduction and video backplates respectively) and these additional funds would likely help them achieve their goals.
Additionally, I'd like to hire an assistant to help us spread HDRI Haven further in the 3D community, on platforms where we're not active yet and to create a presence in communities where other immoral users are attempting to resell our free content for their own profit.
To be more specific about my plan for the extra funds: Half of it would be added directly to the patreon donations, the majority of which goes to HDRI authors which should help us produce more valuable HDRIs. The other half would be set aside for savings and hiring additional help. This is not a final decision either, so I'm keen to hear your thoughts about this in the comments below as well. Whatever we do with it, it'll of course be described in our usual monthly finance reports.
But, I've wrestled enough with this idea on my own and I'm not comfortable making the decision without your feedback. So I've decided to leave the decision up to you, my patrons.
You can vote in the poll below. The results of this poll will decide whether or not we display a small number of unobtrusive ads on HDRI Haven.
The poll will run for two weeks, after which I'll announce the results and respect your choice either way.
Please only vote if you read this post fully. Knee-jerk reactions that don't consider the arguments above are not very helpful.
Comments (33)
First was buying HDRIs from other photographers. Now Ads. What next? Free HDRI heaven and your Greg's way of capture HDRI rise quality level for all commercial HDRIs. Now HDRIHeaven have a lot of HDRIs made by someone also, and no way to check what workflow they used. For free HDRIs this is not a issue if it was made from JPEGs, but for Greg's HDRI Heaven standards this just destroy of trust for quality. Now Ads... And this is already not a passion, but commercial project. Next will be marketplace? ;)
I pay other photographers to shoot for HDRI Haven because they go to places that I can't, and because it saves thousands of your Patreon dollars to hire someone already there instead of me traveling all the way there from South Africa, and because it gives me time to work on the project as a whole (and other projects like 3D Model Haven and Texture Haven) instead of spending all my time shooting and stitching. I published my workflow so that I can show other photographers how I do it (not that my method is perfect) and use that as a starting point for verifying their own workflow and quality of content. Honestly some of the HDRIs these guys have shot are better than what I could do, and I'm learning really cool techniques from them. Obviously none of the HDRIs are made from JPGs, I get a sample of the raw files from each one as part of the review process. If you're concerned about quality, please point out a specific HDRI that you think doesn't meet our standard and explain why. If you can find one, chances are it's one of mine. It honestly hurts me that you think this is not a passion project, I don't even know how to respond to that. If you don't believe in what we're doing, why are you a patron?
I hate aggressive ads with a passion, but if you keep it unobtrusive and tasteful, It sounds acceptable. I understand that producing these HDRIs is not cheap and this could really help the project. Please police them to make sure only relevant ads are shown, I'd hate to see cringy adds for lipstick or something start showing up on HDRI Haven.
Also thank you for consulting your patreon supporters first, it is a noble thing to do.
To me personally, it makes no difference either way since I always use ad blockers on any device I'm able to. Anyone who doesn't use ad blockers as intensely as me might be more used to seeing ads, and won't be as put off by the fact there are an ad or two here or there. If you get a significant amount of money from the ads, I'd say go for it.
I hate ads too, but if they would add meaningfully to the budget while being unobtrusive, I don't see a big problem. Especially if there is no discouragement for the use of ad-blockers.
go for it....long as they are not completely obnoxious then no worries. Great work! its an unbelievable resource.
Someone whohates adds is the perfect person it implement them. Adds are a necessary evil of the internet to keep access 'free'. Add free experience for Patreons is pretty much an essential option for me, and something I am happy to pay for on a few other sites too. Luckily adds aren't as horrible as the were 10 years ago.
My main concern with this isn't the experience of having ads displayed on HDRI Haven, rather it's that most (all?) ad services like Google AdSense do user tracking. If there's a way that you can display ads while opting HDRI Haven out of user tracking, then I'm all for it. But if not, then I think there are some ethical questions to consider, because in practice a lot of ad services aren't just paying you for displaying ads, they're also paying you to help them track your users across the internet.
I agree, this is the main reason against ads for me, and I've been unable to find a viable ad platform which doesn't do tracking that won't require a huge effort on our side (contacting companies directly and sourcing our own ads). Right now it's looking like the consensus is that the benefit of the additional income with no extra effort is worth the downsides of user tracking, as sad as that is. I still need to think about this more, despite the (currently) 80% in favor of ads, I'm still very uncomfortable with the idea.
I understand and agree with you 😊
I think for a 20-50% boost in revenue it's a no-brainer. If it only netted you a few hundred a month it might not be worth it since the community around Blender and Patreon are both somewhat anti-ad, anti-commerce, etc. But I think overall the analysis here is good and in the end we all want more resources to use ... if we have to look at an ad or two in the process, it doesn't hurt our art in any way.
Yes, go ahead and some small ads. We can live with it, and we want to encourage your good work.
If you can make it ad free for patreons, I think it would be a good way to go.
Yeah I say go for it. Ads can be a real earner. I work in mobile free to play and we are always dealing with a vocal minority but it's just not an issue for the 99%. Some ad networks do affect the performance of our games though but working with google should be fine. You do a great job by the way, use you images all the time.
Money is needed to support this stuff
I'm not afraid of ads, but of all the cookie terror coming with google and stuff. All kinds of spying tools will come bundled with the ads. As you said, I will be one of those leaving then.
That's completely understandable, and I appreciate your support all the same :)
Go for it Greg! Totally understandable, and if it helps support you in providing free quality HDRis we're all for it! I hate ads as much as the next guy, but still monetize videos on YouTube; As awesome as Patreon is, I can totally see where it might not be enough to cover expenses and living costs.
Greg you have given so much to the entire 3D community of the world, any chance for you or your organisation to earn more revenue I would encourage and support wholeheartedly.
Like most others, I think that for the overall good of the site and your work, it's a worthwhile idea to try. And look at it this way: If you suddenly see a drop in visitors or some other form of negative feedback, you can discontinue the ads.
As a patreon supporter I appreciate the amount of free quality content that you provide, this is why I signed up in the first place. We all need to pay bills and buy food. Few ads, as long as they are displayed in a civilised way, are not an issue.
Some extra are always useful. Make a good work
Yeah. go for it, whatever helps you guys to carry on doing what you do is good :)
As it can help you, your work merit money help. I don't like ads neither, but I can surely understand. Thanks for your work.
Dudes, all good. Do it. just dont block our sight or start with ads like „click x to proceed“.
There is also brave you can look into, I think they have some kind of advertisement system in their browser to display ads on sites.
As a free software developper (and using patreon too) I perfectly understand why it's difficult to choose, and it's up to you. I'd understand why you would display ads even if on my side I've chosen to never ever use them, because I hate them so much, and because they're everywhere. At least I know my website is like a safe harbor ;) You're also forgetting an important point: ads come with trackers... ;) That said, personally I don't really care: I do use an adblocker and won't even notice the difference, unless you're doing like some crappy sites which block content if an adblocker is detected. Also, disabling ads for patreon supporters might seem a good idea, but that means they would have to be connected /logged in in some way: if they (as I do) have the habit to remove cookies when closing their browser, it won't work, and more importantly, it won't work when we're on the go...
Do it! get that extra!
Thanks for asking. But really, you’re missing a huge ad opportunity being the free HDRI option out there. Get that well earned revenue!
Anything that might help your project unless it is annoying, steals my ID and gives false promises of hit milfs in my area. 😉
You've expressed your thoughts and emotions quite nicely above! In my opinion, ads or no ads, your work speaks for itself! This is definitely the community of the best quality, diverse scenes and well categorized HDRIs available on the internet. So a 50% increase in revenue would definitely be a win-win for the community on the whole! Keep up the great work!! :)
As long as it helps you guys producing better and more HDRIs...go for it!